The Mental Militia Forums

Activism Tactics => The Mole => Topic started by: debra on January 04, 2007, 10:00:41 am

Title: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: debra on January 04, 2007, 10:00:41 am
While I'm an independent contractor, I do occasionally scan the help wanted ads to see what's available, including promising .gov jobs. I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on if it would be worth it to you. Not the money, I mean (in most cases I'd be making less than I am now). But what about:

 - Opening in the IT department of the local DMV/IRS/SSA/FBI office
 - Evidence technician (aka mini-CSI) or administrative coordinator at a commonly-known-as-corrupt sheriff's office
 - County bio-terrorism coordinator (who learns about disasters, etc first)

Would such positions -- with their obvious (but probably seldom utilized) benefits and opportunities  :ph34r: -- make it worth it to you to work for a government agency?
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: velojym on January 04, 2007, 10:02:03 am
Yep. Best place for a sleeping wrench.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: debra on January 04, 2007, 10:14:33 am
^^^ That's a definite disadvantage to consider as well. Screwing up data in a corporation gets you fired; in a .gov office, it could get you jailed. OTOH, so can not filing your taxes, or driving without a license, or ....

Interesting.

I hope lots of others chime in, because I honestly don't know where I sit on such a complex issue, and I'd love to get more opinions.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: debra on January 04, 2007, 10:32:39 am
Well, I'm considering the question from a more, er, "pro-active" angle, in a very hypothetical way. (But I do like the idea of your pistol team, LOL! :D)
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Eternal_Vigilance on January 04, 2007, 11:19:26 am
As for _screwing up" we're talking about a governement office, so it's probably expected. :)
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Remnant on January 04, 2007, 11:45:12 am
Can I put my name on the list in case you get a job at the DMV?   :laugh:

A few years back 60 Minutes did a story about getting fake ID in LA. Turns out they were really
Stated issued DLs and SS# cards they were just issued to whom ever you wanted  to be .
This was pulled off because the people who were selling these IDs had people on the inside.
You paid your money and went inside and you waited until who ever they told you to wait for could see you and you got your ID.Not saying you would do this sorta thing,but you could warn us of any pending doom that is really coming down the pike.

Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Eternal_Vigilance on January 04, 2007, 11:57:30 am
 I'd like to take this a step further. The next time someone asks for my "I.D.", I'm gonna tell 'em to go get bent

. Why should we waste precious time on a piece of plastic? Part of the reason that we have seen such government growth in these areas is because we haven't been a big enough pain in the ass. They say the Revolution was supported by about a third of the population. What if a third of the U.S. cut their ID's into Easter grass, and refused to get another one?

 In Commifornia, it's a law that you must have a state-issued ID when you go out, so, of course, I leave the piece of crap at home. When someone asks for it, I just tell 'em it's at home. This, of course, does not work if you plan on buying things with a credit card or if writing a check, so bear that in mind.

 I have long advocated that the only peaceful means of a revolution is to merely ignore the opressor, BEFORE they escalate to violence. Of course, heaven forbid, that they Waco someone, but that's what RPG's are for, LOL.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: henshawe on January 04, 2007, 12:28:48 pm
G'Day All,

Very interesting question Debra. Couple of questions, for purposes of clarification. Are you asking out of curiosity or are you seriously contemplating such a move yourself? If so, since you do have a bit of a reputation about the web as a person of outspoken beliefs,  :laugh: you would most probably be required to undergo, at minimum, a level 2 background check. Which means the snoops from whatever Agency you applied to would want to examine your living arrangements, your financial arrangements, your educational background, your political affiliations, your religious affiliations, your donations to groups and what their affiliations might be. On the other hand if they wanted to really get nosy they could require a level 3 background check, which can get really dicey for us "outlaw/bad guy  :mellow: types. At level 3 they would send out agents, from one or another alphabet agency du jour, particularly if a security clearance was required by the job requirements, at this level they would seek information from your family members as well as your friends and neighbors. In addition to all the level 2 stuff, they would also investigate, in depth, your past employment history from the first time you you got a job until the present instant, they would be most interested in any periods of unemployment, wanting specific information on what you did, how you managed to pay your bills, rent/mortgage, etc. during these periods and where you may have traveled, particularly if you travelled outside the US.

During the canvass of friends and neighbors, past co-workers/supervisors, this can and will also include any past lovers you may have had, they would be particularly interested in any "opinions" offered by these individuals, no substantiation necessarily needed. Any negative assessments of your character would not necessarily disqualify your employment, however, the rule of "unintended consequences" would come into play here, so you should be extremely careful for which position you apply since any discrepancies will need detailed explanations to the satisfaction of the examiners.

If you were to persue such work opportunities :rolleyes: I would suggest a low level, drone position, requiring just enough skill level to get the job and nothing more since all the information they glean will go into multipule data bases and will follow you forever, not to mention the information will be easily acessable to any supervisor etc, for perusal at any time.

Since you know I live a mobile "Ghost" life style, my answer to your question would be unqualifiedly in the negative.  I would never do such a thing...because :ph34r: :laugh:

Hope the above provided some helpful information.

Regards,

Americus



Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: penguinsscareme on January 04, 2007, 01:08:05 pm
Sometimes I toy with the idea of becoming a cop just so I can not enforce the law, write the mayor a speeding ticket, etc.  I probably wouldn't last long, but I'd get all the tactical and lifesaving training they'd let me take in the meantime.  Oh, and I might "lose" my service sidearm, shotgun, carbine, and squad car and all the emergency equipment in the trunk thereof.

But that's it.

Oh, and maybe the K-9.

Okay, but that's it.

Except for the cell keys.  And all the departmental databases.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: debra on January 04, 2007, 01:28:33 pm
:sign10:

"What do you mean, you 'lost' Spot?!"
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Pagan on January 04, 2007, 01:56:13 pm
Quote
Would such positions -- with their obvious (but probably seldom utilized) benefits and opportunities -- make it worth it to you to work for a government agency?

No. If a civil service job counts, then I've been there, done that -- and left in 1-1/2 yrs., never to look back. It was hell.
Jumping through hoops. Needing ten copies to get a light bulb and then they send you a screw driver. Nobody caring about the job or the patient/client they were dealing with. I could have had a nice pension by now if I'd stayed at that job some 40 yrs. ago.

Knowing personally the people who work in my city/county offices, I can imagine what THAT would be like; full to the brim of political, gossiping brown-nosers. The only reason I would consider taking such a job would be to monkey-wrench, and I'm not sure I could tolerate it long enough to pull that off.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Shevek on January 04, 2007, 04:48:09 pm
Several years ago I worked as an independent contractor in an industry that is highly regulated and requires security checks, peeing in a bottle, etc. I still do not have the courage to return to that industry although the money is incredibly good.

In any such work environment, and I suspect any direct parasitical job to be worse, there is little or no freedom of speech and if the owners and managers could have their way, no freedom of thought either. Much like the old joke about never saying "Hi Jack!" on an airplane upon seeing your friend Jack, liberty-minded thought is discouraged and foundation for accusations of being subversive. At best you will be accused of not being a "team player."

Much like the young kid in the movie "On Golden Pond," I am known for responding with "Bullshit" when confronted with nonsensical opinions and myths and fallacies masquerading as facts. I left that industry shortly after Sept. 11, but during that short period I had to be reminded regularly to keep my mouth shut or get walked off site. Before that infamous date, I was well known at that job site for my anti-statist opinions and beliefs. Routinely people would joke with me about "living in the woods like Teddie," or asking to see my militia membership card. I do live in the woods but in a modern stick-built house, and I never have joined a militia. Didn't matter, that was the image these people had of anybody with a nonconformist attitude. The herd mentality is overwhelming in such environments. :sheep: Worse, most, if not all of these regulated industries and jobs also are regulated by in-house or federally mandated policy of monitoring behavior. I suspect these days such training now includes anything that could be construed as terrorism. Just about any liberty-minded opinions would be watched by those people who do not like free thinkers.

Of course, I am speaking generally. Not an impossible environment for some people, just terribly difficult for most TCFers.

With that said, if your goal is to monkey-wrench, in one form or another, and you possess the unique skill not to voice your opinions about anything, then you might achieve your goal. Might. As already mentioned you'll have to undergo a background security check and you'll have to routinely pee, oops---you're woman---tinkle in a bottle. :D I suspect that your former active participation in the FSP would appear in any security check.

As you know as an IT person, any monkey-wrenching you think you might perform with respect to tampering with code, back doors, firewalls, etc., are traceable back to you---in one form or another. Computers are incredibly complex tools and erasing all traces to you is difficult.

Tampering with crime evidence is difficult too and in a decent crime lab there will be a well established chain-of-custody paper trail that will always include you if you are in that loop. A well established chain-of-custody is necessary to satisfy nominal rules of evidence.

Not to discourage you, just being blunt. ;)

For myself, I simply do not possess the stomach to work with such people. If you are quietly soliciting opinions to help you decide on applying for such a job, then I suspect you might find such an environment challenging and possibly dangerous. Besides, Claire has already established a reputation for noticing that the system cannot be fixed. :)

You're good people, Debra---be careful out there. :thumbsup: Just my two cents.

P.S. Where is the :twocents: emoticon?
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Lightning on January 04, 2007, 07:31:20 pm
What Shevek said.  :notworthy:

I couldn't do it myself.  I'd stick out a mile in a place like that.  And I suspect you would too, debra, even if you didn't have that gorgeous red hair.   :evil:
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: da gooch on January 04, 2007, 09:01:13 pm
I couldn't keep my mouth shut long enough to get any monkeywrenching done.
{who's that chuckling back there  ?}

Shevek made some "important" points in his post and I think I'LL just say...

IF you do....watch your six.

We all know the JBT's take themselves all TOO seriously.

I just found out what you look like and I'd hate to think of you in vertical stripes.

gooch
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Ted Nielsen on January 05, 2007, 06:54:31 pm
Quote
Screwing up data in a corporation gets you fired; in a .gov office, it could get you jailed.

Or it could get you promoted. "Working" in IT as you described is probably one of the best ways a freedom activist could be effective. Providing that person had enough discretion and discipline to keep quiet.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Bear on January 06, 2007, 09:32:05 pm
What Ted Said!

Barring having that much discrecion or disclipline, the County Bio-Terroris co-ordinator sounds like a nice job.
You'd learn: what's considered the current "truth" about bio agents, what can and cannot be done to mitigate them,
and who's-who in the regional and local organizations. This could be handy if TSHTF.

While the mini-CSI sounds intriguing, working for a corrupt sherif has too many pitfalls to make the job worth
the risk.

Bear
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Rarick on January 23, 2007, 12:22:26 pm
DMV clerk, or some clerk level, cashier level, working drone position might be okay.  ANY position with "Security Access" is going to require a background check, police records processing, evidence handling, building security guard, or even a clerk regularly expect to go in a secure area.

They are going to fingerprint you, and generally take the same information about you that they would take from a prisoner short of a body cavity search.  (I would not be surprised if they took a cheak swab for DNA).  That information would go into a general limbo of database which is mined for all sorts of interesting info, but is also highly abusable. :ph34r:

I know with my "service" time, I am in the computer, I had a clearance, so my grimy paws are documented as well.  Low profile is my only choice since my fingerprints would make a nice starting point for the JBT's to unravel the case from.  It is a lot like the Mob, once in, they never "really" let go. :rolleyes:

Do your own Pro-Con analysis and figure out the risks for you and yours, and take your own actions.  I am staying as far away as possible right now.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: Kregener on January 29, 2007, 11:05:42 am
No.

ALMOST every person who draws a government paycheck is on the public dole.

Contributes to the crushing machine don't ya know...
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: da gooch on January 29, 2007, 12:18:22 pm
No.

ALMOST every person who draws a government paycheck is on the public dole.

Contributes to the crushing machine don't ya know...

That may seem to be true on its face BUT only someone "inside" can be a "Mole".
"Moles" can be extremely effective at bringing down the "crushing machine".

"public dole " ?
Public Roll   I agree
Lots of gov't employees are "stuck" in a job they cannot afford to leave without financial damage to their families.
They therefore put in their labor in exchange for a paycheck and that's not a "dole".
I may not agree with their employer BUT I can empathize with their financial plight.
Not ALL gov't employees are the enemy. Gov't itself is the enemy.
That a lot of fairly decent people would lose their jobs when the gov't collapses is a shame but most of those jobs don't need to be done in the first place.

Most of the jobs they do could be done in the private sector just as easily. {Clerks and other paper shufflers}
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: dannykay on February 18, 2007, 12:57:57 pm
as a former "incompetent" gov employee, you can do a lot by doing not a lot, if you get my meaning. as well as being a parasite on the parasite at the same time
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: slidemansailor on February 18, 2007, 01:18:21 pm
How many of today's jobs will be there after TSHTF?  Probably less than 10%.  Regardless of whether you are a government employee, work construction, move financial data around, sell stuff to any of them, are collecting welfare/SS or whatever.  The economy will be unrecognizable when the jig is up. 

Earn what you can in ways that are available today.  More is better than less if it gets you more prepared. Put what you can into tools, skills, food, supplies, a retreat and defense.  If you can find good employment, with good income that also develops skills and tools, that is particularly good.  If you enjoy it, that is the best of all.

Know you will never have done enough, but you will be grateful for every little bit you did do. Do not obsess over being in the gulch with your permanent employment settled when none of us can accurately predict what the post-TEOTWAWKI world will look like.  But for goodness sakes, get a "vacation home" or get yourself moved into a small community before the doors close.
Title: Re: Would it be worth it to you?
Post by: spidey on February 21, 2007, 09:34:54 am
I've gone through a few background checks for different levels of security clearance.  The higher the security clearance, the more the government wants to know about the smallest details of your life.  At one point, I had to justify reasons to talking to foreign nationals, as a matter of course.  Working for law enforcement people (i.e., FBI, etc.) means taking a polygraph, as well.  While there are certain arguments against polygraph tests, unless you are trained to beat one, they are fairly accurate.

Personally, I would rather be true to myself than try to "pretend" in a situation.  If I felt that by joining the local law enforcement, FBI or CIA was morally & ethically the right thing to do, I would have no problem doing that.  However, if I went IN to the situation knowing that I was doing so for other reasons, I could not do it.  Some people have no problem doing that sort of thing...