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Activism Tactics => The Agitator => Topic started by: Claire on October 05, 2003, 11:29:26 pm

Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Claire on October 05, 2003, 11:29:26 pm
People often say that the best way to convert an anti-gunner into a firearms enthusiast is to take 'em to the shooting range. Especially if the anti-gunner in question is a woman who suddenly discoverers the empowerment (I hate that word) of being competent with guns.

So I was thinking about a national "Take Your Girlfriend(s) Shooting Day," on which both men and women could take female friends to the range.

But surely some gun group must already have thought of this. (Hm. Don't the Second Amendment Sisters do "Shoot and Shop"?) Does anybody know if such a day exists? Or have any ideas about good ways to promote one?
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Jac on October 05, 2003, 11:44:32 pm
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So I was thinking about a national "Take Your Girlfriend(s) Shooting Day," on which both men and women could take female friends to the range.
Absolutely! Except, I don't have a girlfriend... or, for that matter any female friend that's anti-gun. :huh:

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Especially if the anti-gunner in question is a woman who suddenly discoverers the empowerment (I hate that word) of being competent with guns.
How about "enlightenment"?
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Storm on October 05, 2003, 11:55:34 pm
At the risk of running afoul of whomever again, I am going to offer what I suppose is a minor criticism or at least caution.

I have taught a number of women to shoot, most after they had been raped. I cannot think of a case where the individual was comfortable at a range, with all of the unspoken rules, and "boys club" atmosphere (I am sure that there are ranges somewhere that are not subject to these traits, but as we all know they are predominate).

I am not saying that ranges do not have their place, or that they are not good and useful places. Given my own experiences in these situations, I learned from them, and so I would take these women to some place where there was no strict formality, no boys club atmosphere, no expectation of prior knowledge, none of the normal pressures which most of us take for granted since we are no longer beginners. I would take them out on some property where it was safe to shoot (yes into a hillside or cliff where there was no danger of leaving bullets traveling beyond our "range") and by removing all of the other pressures and distractions which had nothing to do with firearms, it was far easier and more comfortable for these women to learn to shoot. Once they were comfortable, I encouraged them to find ranges, or I would recommend some, and encourage them to practice.

Again in my own experience it is that first hurdle that is the most difficult to overcome, and so I would remove all of the irrelevant distractions and elements which would increase the difficulty in order to focus on the real issue: learning to shoot.

I am not trying to step on any toes or upset any of the hypersensitivity of some here with these suggestions, I am simply offering my own experiences and lessons learned.  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Claire on October 05, 2003, 11:56:46 pm
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Absolutely! Except, I don't have a girlfriend... or, for that matter any female friend that's anti-gun. :huh:

You're good, Jac. You're good. Perhaps we'll have to appoint you our special emissary to Rosie O'Donnell or something. Can you imagine taking Rosie to the range?

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How about "enlightenment"?

Wow, then we could be part of the Illuminati.  ;)

Seriously, though, enlightenment is part of it. But with a lot of women (heck, with me when I first started shooting .45), there's this revelation of, "Hey, *I* can do that!" that truly goes beyond intellectual enlightenment. Not only does the veil of mystery about firearms fall, but ... well, it's like being able to change one's own oil or wire a lamp. Only better, because there's such strength and confidence in learning to protect oneself.

Empowerment would be a wonderful word if it hadn't been taken over by the PC gang.
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Claire on October 05, 2003, 11:58:28 pm
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I would take these women to some place where there was no strict formality, no boys club atmosphere, no expectation of prior knowledge, none of the normal pressures which most of us take for granted since we are no longer beginners. I would take them out on some property where it was safe to shoot (yes into a hillside or cliff where there was no danger of leaving bullets traveling beyond our "range") and by removing all of the other pressures and distractions which had nothing to do with firearms, it was far easier and more comfortable for these women to learn to shoot.
Good point, Storm.
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Hunter on October 06, 2003, 12:21:36 am
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Can you imagine taking Rosie to the range?

I shall refrain from saying just what role my own imagination would place her in. Suffice it to say that some of her statements and actions I consider at least strong advocacy of the initiation of force or delegation thereof, so I take a pretty dim view of her.

Second Amendment Sisters has not to my recollection set up a specific day like you're suggesting. Most chapters DO have regular "learn to shoot" days for women only. I used to instruct at those pretty regularly until national started insisting on NRA credentials for all instructors. I could get them easily, but I don't like having my name on yet another list. SAS is having some internal problems at the moment, though, so there is no telling what is going to happen. A lot of the state chapters are in open revolt against some things happening at national. Some of this MAY have got sorted out at GRPC this past week... I hope.

NRA has a very active women's program, and I believe they do have some sort of a "take your lady shooting" day set up. That should be easy enough to check; if we can't dig it up any other way I'll call member services and ask.

Another group that might have tried to set up or promote something along those lines is Armed Females of America. I'm in touch with some of them occasionally and check their website regularly, will try to remember to look for you. I like the idea, though I think the name may need some work. It is such an obvious idea that somebody has to have already done it; I'd say the thing to do in that case is piggyback on the existing declaration and start trying to expand the appeal. For instance, once we know the day, I think it should not be too hard to enlist the Pink Pistols in promoting it. They are all about outreach, and one of the most effective groups going at actually doing it. Getting an announcement posted on KeepAndBearArms.com is trivial, and once it is there I believe we might be able to convince the editor at FND to pick it up - she's brutally tough but has a heart of gold, like most good editors... <ducks>

I'm sure we could come up with other angles. You or I could probably get a puff piece about the idea into Sierra Times, Libertarian Enterprise ditto; we might be able to get L Neil to mention it, and I have quite a few other very casual connections with a lot of the pro-gun writers I could try to interest. Hmmn. I can effortlessly think of ways to get Strike the Root, LibertyForAll, ThePriceofLiberty, and even DoingFreedom! might be just possible... <wink> I can get word to Lyn Bates through some back channels; maybe Mas Ayoob; BTP I think we could interest. Ok, sorry to muse over possibilities aloud to you here. Information gathering mode, folks - IS there already such a day is the first question to pin down.
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Jac on October 06, 2003, 12:27:33 am
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You're good, Jac. You're good.
*Jac bows* Ahem, Thank you, thank you very much! :D

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Perhaps we'll have to appoint you our special emissary to Rosie O'Donnell or something. Can you imagine taking Rosie to the range?
Yes, but I can also imagine dousing my feet in gasoline, then throwing a match on them... guess which one I would prefer. :P

(Actually, it depends on which end of the range she's on... I think Hunter and I are in agreement on that. :))
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: mantispid on October 06, 2003, 12:51:42 am
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People often say that the best way to convert an anti-gunner into a firearms enthusiast is to take 'em to the shooting range. Especially if the anti-gunner in question is a woman who suddenly discoverers the empowerment (I hate that word) of being competent with guns.

So I was thinking about a national "Take Your Girlfriend(s) Shooting Day," on which both men and women could take female friends to the range.

But surely some gun group must already have thought of this. (Hm. Don't the Second Amendment Sisters do "Shoot and Shop"?) Does anybody know if such a day exists? Or have any ideas about good ways to promote one?
Hmm..  I'm guessing wives would be included as well?
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Hunter on October 06, 2003, 12:59:51 am
This is one of the reasons I think the name needs work. Somehow you want to include wives, girlfriends, female acquaintances, and "da girlz" that "da other girlz" hang out with. And, no, I haven't a clue what to suggest. It's an elegant problem, and I am still admiring it before tackling solutions. One thing at a time.
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: rick on October 06, 2003, 05:03:00 am
Not too long ago, I did it with my girlfriend. No, take her to the range, of course. She was surprised by several things: first: the noise and by how much a good ear protection can reduce it. Second: that she was able to hit the target 25 meters away with several rounds 9mm right from the start. Third and most: the polite atmosphere on the range. Lots of males on one big pile and - no really salty language and a very peaceful way to get along with each other. She had been to other sportive events before, but never ever to a shooting range. She would not (yet) touch my T/C Encore, but I'm having built an exchange barrel in .22-.215, and with that I think, she will get to good terms. At the moment she is in process of getting acquainted with the thought to try either clays or archery. Not too bad for a formerly convinced anti-gunner  ;)

Later, I took her to a closed range where some guy wanted to try his courage with the .45-70. From a 15" bbl, that is an impression you are not likely to forget in a closed room. It was a 50 m range and we shut almost all lights down. the muzzle flash was like an ancient Flak gun, a torus of 18" diameter (not kidding) and the sound was a deep-belly BOOOOOOM. Might be something for people oversensitive for high-pitched sounds. That left another deep impression on her...
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Searcher on October 06, 2003, 05:30:12 am
I have taken many of my female friends to the range. Most are scared at first, most aren't by the end of they day. I think a "take someone to the range" day is a great idea.
Some of you girls ought to think about taking a few guys out there, too.  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Jack Harrison on October 06, 2003, 06:31:13 am
I'd suggest also holding a "Take Your Congresscritter Shooting Day" but I'm afraid there'd be a few tragedies involved.

Just yesterday, in the middle of nowhere, well actually in the middle of the Gettysburg Apple Harvest Festival, my wife says to me "I do want you to teach me to shoot skeet".

I stopped in my tracks. "OK!" was all I said as this was the first time she's ever said anything about _her_ taking up a firearm in her hands.

I'm wearing her down!
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Scarmiglione' on October 06, 2003, 07:03:09 am
I'm going to add my own spin to this.  I'm not one for converting adults.  That's either easy, or impossible, depending on their predilection.  What I suggest is:

Take Your Daughter Shooting Day

I believe this would innoculate the two most targeted groups for instilling gun phobia, children and women.  If we can get to the children before the anti-gun culture does, well, as we all know, the phobia of guns disappears rapidly and usually never returns once the lies are dispersed.  I say poison the ground those lies take root in.
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Herself on October 06, 2003, 07:42:14 am
Quote from: Claire,Oct 5 2003, 09:56 PM
Quote
Quote
How about "enlightenment"?

Wow, then we could be part of the Illuminati.  ;)

Seriously, though, enlightenment is part of it[...]

Empowerment would be a wonderful word if it hadn't been taken over by the PC gang.

     How about "amorced?"  That's borrowed, I think, from the late H. Beam Piper; in one of his yarns, a character refers to a generator failure as being "disamorced," from the old Rosicrucians "Light and power of the world/AMORC" ads; so to be amorced is to be enlightened and empowered.
     <sigh>  It's gonna be a geeky day for me, I can tell already.

     Scarmig, you had better be taking your daughter to the range!  One of my father's better traits, he made sure all his offspring were familiar with his guns; there is no better aid learning basic safety than shooting holes in a few useless things.  Talk is cheap, examples are priceless.

     --Herself
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Scarmiglione' on October 06, 2003, 08:01:21 am
Well, I have to admit Herself.  I have yet to take my daughter shooting.  Call me radical, but I'm somewhat of the mind that she should be walking first.  ;)

But seriously, I'm well aware that people who already believe in guns take their kids shooting.  In my mind, I see "Take your daughter shooting day" to have the same effect that "Take your daughter to work day" has in that there were already people interested in their daughter's development and took them to work with them but formalizing it onto a specific day made many other parents aware of the need and opportunity to provide this aspect of education for thier children.  In my eye I see Take Your Daughter Shooting Day as a wake-up call to parents that self-defense begins as a child.  Formalizing it would encourage not just the participation of women, but the embrace of children by a gun culture that is slowly losing the youth participation.  I know that the NRA still sponsors youths to shoot, but I see fewer and fewer kids around the local gun ranges than ever.  In fact, i can't remember the last time I saw a child under 17 at a range.

I think the original idea of "girlfriends" is good, but doesn't strike deep enough into the problem.
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Vydunas on October 06, 2003, 09:36:20 am
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You're good, Jac. You're good. Perhaps we'll have to appoint you our special emissary to Rosie O'Donnell or something. Can you imagine taking Rosie to the range?--Claire

It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

I blush to admit that in 3 years I have not been out to the range with my girlfriend. We've discussed it, but we've been too busy.  :blink:   I have an ulterior motive: her piece is a .25.  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Eternal_Vigilance on October 07, 2003, 12:22:59 am
While I think all this is a great idea, what we need to look at is the long-term discipline and enjoyment of the "ballistic arts" by the fairer sex. I am sure there are numerous gun experts who will attest that women make better natural shooters than men (perhaps due to the lack of that bragadocious hormone, testosterone?), but how many women have held records in this area?

 Personally, I think, as has been said here, women don't care for the "boys club" atmoshpere (go figure, neither do I, and I are one) and this is keeping them from several key elements in shooting. One is that you must be comfortable, which is hard to do if you're the only woman at a range. I've seen it, and it looked like it sucked (I suppose that "Dragsteress" Shirley Muldowney wondered just what the hell she was thinking from time to time...). Second, getting a chance to have a mentorship or friendship with someone more experienced, has helped make a major difference in many a good gun enthusiast today. If you don't believe me, look at all the people who've gone to Thunder Ranch, or Gunsite, like some famous author we know.

 All this being said, I've recently some across a group that, if it isn't just what the Dr. ordered, might be on the right path. I've talked with the state head of one of their chapters (Michigan), and he's a great guy. Their group, the Pink Pistols, is organized for gay shooting enthusiasts, and he has said that all are welcome to join. My point here being, that this is what is needed, a shooting group that doesn't give a damn who you are, just that you wanna shoot.

 You can find them online @ http://www.pinkpistols.org/ (http://www.pinkpistols.org/)

 Perhaps they could provide the ladies of this here forum with some tasteful Glock accessories? ;)  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Claire on October 07, 2003, 09:19:32 am
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My point here being, that this is what is needed, a shooting group that doesn't give a damn who you are, just that you wanna shoot.


Perhaps they could provide the ladies of this here forum with some tasteful Glock accessories? ;)
After starting this topic, I didn't have the opportunity to come back and really do it justice, so I stayed away a few days -- only to find all kinds of good ideas (no surprise) on my return.

I like "Take Your Daughter Shooting" day partly because it would give the "for the children" crowd a total hissy fit. However, I do believe that most fathers who care enough about both their firearms and their kids will do that, anyway.

I know when you try to "convert" adults to anything by argument, you don't have much chance of success. But convert them by *experience* -- now that's another matter! And the women-and-guns conversion is a big one. A big WOW: "I can do that!" and "Oh, hey, guns *don't* just 'go off' all by themselves!"

So yeah, this needs to be grownup women. But you're all right, it could be all kinds of women -- which definitely presents a problem of coming up with a good name for the darned event! "Take your girlfriend/daughter/wife/neighbor/boss/city councilwoman/mother shooting day" somehow just doesn't have that perfect ring to it.

I definitely "get" the reasons to go someplace other than a range for the first exposure -- as long as participants are really careful to choose safe locations for shooting (something over which we'd have no control, even if we described what constitutes a safe shooting site.)

I'm also all for us women taking guys. But the big conversion job needs to be done on us wimmen. (And on the more political womyn.)

Excellent point on the Pink Pistols and creating a similar "shooting can be for anybody" group. That one needs more thought & I for one am not ready to start a group of any kind. But Pink Pistols is a brilliant concept. And maybe the "take a woman shooting" day could also tie in with one of the existing women's gun groups.

Didn't know Second Amendment Sisters was coming apart at the seams. Hadn't heard. I hope it's being put back together now.

(P.S. Purple glitter is definitely "the" in look for fashionable Glockettes. Perhaps with a touch of flourescent lime green to brighten those darker winter encounters.)
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Hunter on October 07, 2003, 09:44:08 am
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Excellent point on the Pink Pistols and creating a similar "shooting can be for anybody" group. That one needs more thought & I for one am not ready to start a group of any kind. But Pink Pistols is a brilliant concept. And maybe the "take a woman shooting" day could also tie in with one of the existing women's gun groups.

I'll drop a few lines out and see if any of the ones who will talk to me are interested. Or for that matter have something similar going. Ideally we'd want to get ALL of them onboard. <sigh> This would have been a great idea to have prepared and present at the Gun Rights Policy Conference. Pink Pistols I don't expect to be a big problem to enlist in the effort. The main problem I would forsee is that they are pretty decentralized, so while you CAN contact Doug and get word out to their main website, the individual chapters may or may not respond.

Quote
Didn't know Second Amendment Sisters was coming apart at the seams. Hadn't heard. I hope it's being put back together now.

I'll keep you posted. It until just about a week ago was an internal squabble that hadn't got beyond the Board and the state coordinators. Then the new board started en masse firing state coordinators who were asking them questions. That did not sit well with a lot of the members. I expect to be hearing more details about the latest round in the next week or two.

Quote
(P.S. Purple glitter is definitely "the" in look for fashionable Glockettes. Perhaps with a touch of flourescent lime green to brighten those darker winter encounters.)

Heh heh. You're a trendsetter, Claire. Just daaahling.  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: MsNails on October 07, 2003, 11:47:01 am
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In fact, i can't remember the last time I saw a child under 17 at a range.

 
Hello everyone!  I'm new here, but I couldn't resist the temptation to jump in on this topic.  I do believe that taking adult women (and men!) to the range and teaching them to shoot is a wonderful way of converting them (I've taken MANY men, women and children myself) HOWEVER...  I believe the BEST way, is taking children.  I was raised around firearms and strongly feel that if I hadn't started shooting at such a young age (I believe I was 8 when Dad started me on a BB gun and graduated to a .22 Remington Jet a few months later.  Within 6 months, I graduated to my father's .357 and have enjoyed shooting ever since.) I probably wouldn't have as much enthusiasm for either the 2nd Amendment or firearm sports.  If we raise our kids enjoying the sport rather than preaching to them about the Constitution, it would go SO much further into their adulthood.

I also believe that the best person to take a woman shooting, is another woman.  I recently took one of my girlfriends and her son shooting.  Her husband kept telling them he would take them, but never did.  She traveled from IL to WA to come see me, so I seized the opportunity to teach them.  Before we even got anywhere near the shooting part of it, I taught them how to be comfortable with the firearm.  Taught them each how to handle it, clean it and carry it.  Then we moved on to learning about what to expect at the range...  Possible rules they may have...  Possible "macho male BS" they may run into (which, I haven't seen in SUCH a long time!)  Once we got them comfortable holding and working with the firearms, then we went to the range and practiced loading and unloading.  Here is where being a woman teaching a woman comes in handy...  Not all, but a HUGE number of men don't take into account that men and women are built differently.  Some of us just don't have the muscle strength to handle a firearm (comfortably & reliably) the way men are used to.  I showed her and her son several ways of completing tasks and showed them the way I preformed them as well.  I told them to practice each method, and pick the one that's most suitable to THEM, rather than the "most popular" ways.  I also brought a wide selection of firearms :-) with us, rather than just one, so that they could also select the style and caliber that they liked.  I believe it's SO much more important to be comfortable with the firearm you're chosing to protect life, rather than "it was on sale, so this is what I have to work with."  When it came time to start shooting, I told them not to worry about where the projectile penetrated the target, rather get comfortable with the trigger, the recoil, the sound, the experience.  Once you get comfortable with that, THEN worry about where the holes are appearing.

The reason I bring all that up is it's been MY personal experience, that most men aren't as concerned with the details leading up to hitting the mark.  Whenever I've come across male instructors, they seem to forget that women's hands are generally smaller and we don't tend to have as much forearm strength.  We also have a tendency to be afraid of things we do not understand completely.  Women teachers seem to be more in touch with the differences.  Women can usually relate to each other better as well.  When the tension of trying something new and scary, such as shooting is on the agenda, sometimes having a male teacher can lead to even more tension and oversensitivity if the woman feels like she's being "talked down to."  I've never seen this last part myself, however every single woman that I've taken that has had a man "show them the ropes" beforehand, have all told me that was a big factor for them.

Ok, now that I've gotten off track...  Yeah, teach the women, but make sure you reach out to the kids!  Teaching adult women will make a tiny impact now, but teaching the kids will make a huge impact in the future.  Get the women out there teaching others, showing them it's not just a man thing...  Be a mentor!  LOL

Melissa (who can't remember what direction she originally wanted to take this thread)
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Bill St. Clair on October 07, 2003, 12:01:00 pm
MsNails comments about women needing to handle firearms differently than men reminds me of a story...

I bought an old single-shot 20 gauge shotgun for my son to shoot. It has a break-open action and a hammer that must be manually cocked. I cock it with my right thumb while holding the gun in the shooting position (finger off trigger, of course). My son doesn't have the strength for that. He cocks it by holding the gun in his right hand, and pressing the hammer back with his left thumb. This allows him to use his arm and shoulder muscles instead of his thumb muscle, which he can easily do. He discovered this method himself. I, of course, taught him to cock the hammer BEFORE inserting a shell and closing the action, just in case his thumb slips off. He loves shooting traps.
 
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Storm on October 07, 2003, 01:08:48 pm
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I know when you try to "convert" adults to anything by argument, you don't have much chance of success.

I have not found this to be the case. Sure there are ideologues who hold their ideas so sacred that no discussion or question of those ideas will ever be considered, but those who do not themselves adopt that self-same attitude and engage others likewise willing to actually discuss the issues and seek out solutions can be swayed by reason and argument. In fact I could not tell you the number of statists, individuals who could quite accurately be described as ideologues, who now either deny or at the very least doubt some of the beliefs that were core to their ideology, all after simply discussing the issues honestly, openly, and without using emotional bullying or personal attacks. Allowing them the possibility that they might teach you something allows them to be in a comfortable enough position that they will likewise be open to new ideas and arguments. If you have done the necessary background work, there is no reason to fear honest and open discussion of this sort.

If you enter into the situation using antagonism, animosity, and looking for a fight, then you are absolutely correct, you will not have much chance of forcing others to adopt your view, but if you demonstrate that you are in the same position as they are, in that you are both seeking solutions to the same sorts of problems, then you will be surprised just how successful you will be in changing minds and starting others on the road to freedom.  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Sunni on October 07, 2003, 02:53:53 pm
Well, where to begin?  :)  I've had lots of opportunities to talk about firearms and to debunk myths in my past life as a college prof. Most were fairly turned off, but every term I saw a few whose mental light bulb went "DING!".

One of my favorite stories, though, is of a friend whose grandfather was a Russian Communist, and whose father was an American Communist ... he hated guns, would barely tolerate being in the room with mine. But before I moved out of the state, by talking about it whenever he brought it up, and by not being confrontational but simply answering his questions, he came around to where he could hold my handgun. I heard from him after he'd lived in KA for a while -- he'd been befriended by some Objectivist-types out there and had become a shooting enthusiast! I never set out to "convert" him, just to talk with him and always tried to point out the errors in his information or reasoning.

As many here know, Lobo and I have taken our young children shooting regularly. We've never hidden our guns from them, but have always insisted that they treat them with respect, and safely, as do we. They began shooting as soon as they expressed interest -- about 3.5 and 1.5 years of age, IIRC -- with very close adult supervision. The result is that the older child is fairly conscious of several firearms issues, is very thoughtful about muzzle control and gun safety in general, and both enjoy shooting and have never shown any fear. Sometimes they'll ask a question while we're in public -- my favorite is when we go to Wal-Mart to get ammo and they start asking questions. The conversation invariably continues as we shop for our groceries, often resulting in many shocked looks from those who overhear it.   :lol:

If someone's interested and shows the capability of following the safety rules, who cares what their age, sexuality, or sex is? Just take 'em shooting, and show 'em a good, and safe time.  B)
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Don Galt on October 09, 2003, 06:45:02 am


NOTE TO ANY WHO THINK THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've  been threatened with expulsion for disagreeing with one of the moderators friends.  Thus, since there are people here who you cannot disagree with (Apparently, a major chunk of the participants) this is not effectively a discussion forum.

I will not participate in a forum where my posts are modified to change thier meaning, and where I am threatened with expulsion if I dare to disagree.

Thus I am removing my participation, and I caution you to be wary of yours.

Good Day--

The man who lives for no other.
 
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Storm on October 09, 2003, 08:37:39 am
Don,

My own experience at ranges has been that in almost every case there is an atmosphere that does not encourage new shooters. The attitude is that if you do not already know everything about firearms and shooting then you should not be at the range, and sadly there is still a great deal of the attitude that women should not be shooting. Demonstrations of this attitude range from standoffishness to snide comments and berating. And then of course there are the gun snobs, the ones that will tell you that there is only one weapon to use or carry (often this is the 1911 45, but I've seen it with other guns as well)

However, returning to the topic, even if all of this were imagined, I suggested taking the newbie to a place where it is just the two of you so as to remove all distractions, real or imagined, and thus retain the focus on the goal. Make the individual as comfortable as possible so that they are most receptive to the activity.  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Eternal_Vigilance on October 09, 2003, 11:42:02 am
Quote
Quote
In fact, i can't remember the last time I saw a child under 17 at a range.

 

I also believe that the best person to take a woman shooting, is another woman.  I recently took one of my girlfriends and her son shooting.  Her husband kept telling them he would take them, but never did.  She traveled from IL to WA to come see me, so I seized the opportunity to teach them.  Before we even got anywhere near the shooting part of it, I taught them how to be comfortable with the firearm.  Taught them each how to handle it, clean it and carry it.  Then we moved on to learning about what to expect at the range...  Possible rules they may have...  Possible "macho male BS" they may run into (which, I haven't seen in SUCH a long time!)  Once we got them comfortable holding and working with the firearms, then we went to the range and practiced loading and unloading.  Here is where being a woman teaching a woman comes in handy...  Not all, but a HUGE number of men don't take into account that men and women are built differently.  
Melissa,
 
 Bravo! How I would LOVE to hear more of this! I never could figure out why wormen were relegated to talking about kids and cooking. Aren't women intelligent enough to handle complex machinery? If you can drive a car, you can bloody well shoot! You really set a great example here. I don't know if I overlooked it, but did they enjoy themselves? Seems like that's as important as anything. While teaching ladies to shoot safely is, of course, wonderful, getting them to enjoy it is even better. Case in point, I showed my wife my "95 Chilean Mauser this morning and she actually looked! (Sad, I know, but it's something, at least)

Randall
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Sunni on October 09, 2003, 11:55:22 am
Don requested:
Quote
Could someone provide examples of bad experiences? Possibly with things to watch out for to prevent them, but if someone was just a jerk, I'd like to hear it.

I've shot at several ranges from the midwest to the west, and my experience has varied wildly. In some places I've been treated very well, in others quite poorly. One of my more memorable negative experiences came at the range where I first learned to shoot -- I cut my teeth on a 12-gauge shotgun.

I'd been shooting many times and had become a pretty good shot. On this particular fall Saturday, the range was extra-busy with hunters practicing and checking equipment, loads, etc. Many of the newcomers were in groups of 3-5 men, and I noticed that, no doubt in part because I was the only woman there, I was attracting a lot of attention. Most of it wasn't very positive, which I attributed to the double "handicaps" of being both a femme and a lefty.

I pretended not to notice the pointed stares, pokes in ribs followed by whispers and snickers, etc. Then, when I was done pulling and it was my turn to shoot, I calmly loaded up, stepped up to the line, and proceeded to powder all 25 clays for my turn.

The staring and whispering stopped. I ended up shooting something like 98 for 100 that day ...

Being safe, practicing good firearms etiquette, and minding one's own business go a long way toward preventing individuals from acting like jerks. But if someone wants to do so, he or she will -- just go about your business and ignore the individual(s). Chances are excellent doing all this will show him or her to be even more of a jerk than s/he might've demonstrated otherwise.
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: amy on October 09, 2003, 01:52:31 pm
I feel selfconscience when learning and practicing in public. I don't do a lot of shoting and so don't feel very confident. I would prefer to shot at someone's private shotting range with only friends around. It might make it more comfortable for some women to go shoting with a few other women as a group.  
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Zefferon on October 15, 2003, 06:49:54 pm
How are you girlz coming along with your marksmanship? (markspersonship?)
 
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Bear on October 15, 2003, 08:00:45 pm
Quote
Later, I took her to a closed range where some guy wanted to try his courage with the .45-70. From a 15" bbl, that is an impression you are not likely to forget in a closed room. It was a 50 m range and we shut almost all lights down. the muzzle flash was like an ancient Flak gun, a torus of 18" diameter (not kidding) and the sound was a deep-belly BOOOOOOM. Might be something for people oversensitive for high-pitched sounds. That left another deep impression on her...

Are you talking about a big pistol or a short rifle? Who made this weapon, or was it
a gunsmith project piece?

Bear

 
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Hasher on October 15, 2003, 08:49:39 pm
Any time I can get her away from work on a weekend is "take the GF shooting day". I have always started tehm out with a 22 and taught them the basics. When they can do that well move them to a light 38 Special then to a 9mm. I did this for one fg a tteh range and by the end of the session she was making good hits at 10 yards with Specials from my 44 Mountain Gun.

Hunter,

If you need any help with Mas let me know as he is a friend.

Hasher
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: rick on November 04, 2003, 06:04:19 pm
Bear, that was a regular, factory-made, unaltered Thompson/Center Encore in .45-70 caliber. It is a fine pistol and it teaches you discipline and caution. I shoot it one-handed standing on 25 or 50 yds or prone up to 200 yds. If you can master it, you ARE a pistolero. It is available in nice handgun calibers like .30-06 or even timid 7mm Rem Mag ;-). For close quarter shooting, I am using a Bushnell HoloSight which is strong enough to manage the recoil though the Weaver Mount looks a little frail (Al).
Title: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on May 22, 2004, 12:24:33 pm
Quote
While I think all this is a great idea, what we need to look at is the long-term discipline and enjoyment of the "ballistic arts" by the fairer sex. I am sure there are numerous gun experts who will attest that women make better natural shooters than men (perhaps due to the lack of that bragadocious hormone, testosterone?), but how many women have held records in this area?
 
I was pleased and amazed to hear on the (local) news a while back that the "State Championship" (PA) title for something (I think it was .22 rifle?) had been taken by a young lady who happened to be a high school senior here (Palmyra, PA)...