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Partner Sites => Survival Blog => Topic started by: Who...me? on February 26, 2009, 05:00:33 pm

Title: Home made armor
Post by: Who...me? on February 26, 2009, 05:00:33 pm
Found this in the Archives. Wondered if anyone had ever tried it.

Doc (at www.bigsecrets.cc) contends that the best ballistic barrier that can be improvised on a low budget is a lamination of 1/8" steel plate, 1/4" plywood, and 1/8" steel plate. In other words, cover both sides of plywood with steel plate. It won't stop .50 caliber rounds or RPGs, but most shoulder fired weapons can be stopped with this barrier.

Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Mr. Dare on February 26, 2009, 05:40:23 pm
Dirt. Best bullet trap in the world.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Polearm on February 26, 2009, 06:47:02 pm

That website takes you to a place that wants to sell you the domain name.

Websearch for "bigsecret" lists serveral more buy this website hits. 

Not the best body armour I could get or make.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Who...me? on February 26, 2009, 07:26:06 pm
 
Not the best body armour I could get or make.

Ya I wasn't thinking of it as body armor. But I could think of a few places in my house that I could put a 4'x4' piece  to make a defensible position. Anything that would take a few rounds that I could use as cover if needed. We all know that walls in your house won't stop incoming rounds. Or for that matter outgoing rounds. A piece under the drywall would make a nice backstop halfway up my stairs. I'm sure my neighbor would really appreciate it. Or maybe one behind the headboard of my bed with a handle so I could pull it over to the doorway but it would be hidden most of the time. Anyway just trying to think out of the box.

I figured JWR might know about it since it was posted on SurvivalBlog originally.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Polearm on February 27, 2009, 04:01:20 pm

You know, house armour makes more sense.  It basically gives spaced armour with a shock absorber in the middle to help with absorption. 

If you're thinking of it, do it soon.  Prices of all types of metals are going up.. fast.

I'd still not want to wear it..

Although, when I was in Bosnia in '94, some of the Bosnian storm troopers had hand forged steel breast plates for use in storming trenches.  Ungodly heavy, but sort of reliable.

My contention is that the link doesn't work as advertised.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: jimp220 on February 27, 2009, 04:44:40 pm
for house armor I have a bunch (50) 50 cal ammo cans that came from India I bought for $1 each.  They are poor quality but I was thinking if they were filled with 3/4 inch gravel they would probably make a good bullet stopper and could be stacked anywhere one wanted a defensible postition.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Mr. Dare on February 27, 2009, 05:04:52 pm
Sand is better. More mass, smaller particle size, absorbs more energy and disperses it better. Rock may be harder, but hardness really isn't your friend in this case. Gravel can become shrapnel with a really hard whollop.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Polearm on February 27, 2009, 05:36:04 pm

Jimp, the ammo boxes is a great idea.  Easily moved as required.  It also passes the everyday test.  Easily placed once things start looking bad.  Bad thing is they tend to not stack like bricks very well..but I might have a solution.

I'd agree with Mr Dare though, use sand.  They would be like metal sand bags. 

If I might suggest, place a piece of foam or something where the holes from bullets passing through "close", on one side of the inside of the can, the "outside".  Then paint the "outside" a distinct colour (this side towards enemy).  This should help keep some of the sand in the box once holes start to appear in them.

I'd think that some sort of retention method would be in order.  If the boxes start falling down, especially while you are taking cover behind them, they can really hurt.  If they were "permanently" located, then some sort of revetment would be in order.  Use something like corrugated metal around the inside of the "foxhole", forcing the cans against the wall, and this in turn held in place by steel pickets, say wired and then windlassed to the wall studs.  (windlassing, for those new to this term, is when you take a piece of wire wrap it several times around a couple of strong things a distance of a couple of feet apart, insert something strong into the opening between the strands and twist them together, causing them to wrap around each other and become tighter.  Used in fencing of all manner)

Bug netting and 2 x 2's can be your friend too.  Build a structure inside of your window, sort of like a closet but opening towards the window, and attached the bug net (door screen, but not the metal type) to the inside three sides, like a curtain.  This will act like sheers.  You can see out, but unless there is a light on in the room you are in, they can not see in.  Beware of other windows in the room.  You can shoot from behind this (like, a few feet behind it) and the people outside won't easily detect where your shot came from.  After shooting a few rounds, move to a new location.  Eventually, any dunder head will figure that just blasting away at a window will probably hit you.  Stay low.  Pre-position ammo at each location.  Yell to others in the building.  Alone?  Fake it.  Just yell from different locations to your "allies".

Both suggestions come from an older "Urban Warfare" manual.  Maybe US, Maybe Canadian.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Texasbound on March 01, 2009, 08:56:32 pm
Wouldn't a brick home or at least a half brick facade be far more useful, easier and cost effective?
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Klapton Isgod on March 01, 2009, 09:27:22 pm
I'm going to build my home with minium 12" diameter logs.  Something very much like the ones in the LHBA Student galleries here:  http://www.loghomebuilders.org/image/tid/3
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Who...me? on March 01, 2009, 10:07:48 pm
Wouldn't a brick home or at least a half brick facade be far more useful, easier and cost effective?

Check out this web site.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Polearm on March 02, 2009, 03:35:56 pm

Texas, yes, the brick or half brick would be great in making your house look, feel and be more durable, however, it is always good to have a "safer" area to be in if someone was shooting real big rounds at you.

In a video I found ( so long ago, I can't remember where) showed what would happen if certain things were fired at certain types of material.  Cinder block, brick, steel plate, 2 x 4, log (fence post size).

The .308 and up types (NATO ball, AK-47, G-3, Garand.. etc) went clean through the cinder block and 1 inch steel plate at ranges of up to 100 yards (it was all they could test it at, it was a 100 yard indoor test range).  In some cases, hitting the target was more the issue.  If some yahoo is shooting with an automatic AK-47, does it really matter where he is hitting?  Eventually, the wall is going to start to give in.  With other smaller calibers, the round may not have penetrated with one, but might shatter the block, causing a hole to be made for other rounds to enter.

Next consider the fact that a fair number of people have purchased retreats with pre existing wooden frame houses that are fairly old.  Adding brick to the house, while a great idea and nice looking, will represent a huge investment in time, effort and cost.  Remember, something like that would likely require a building permit and the fees and inspections that would require.

Who..  Thanks for the "Box O' Truth"  I'm frankly amazed at how far the .22 penetrated.  It is truly one of the most under estimated rounds.

Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Who...me? on March 02, 2009, 04:26:22 pm
Ya it is a real eye opener when you see how far bullets will penetrate things folks think of as cover. At best most things are only temporary. Even 2 feet of reinforced concrete will only work until it is worn away. Cover is just a place to stop a few rounds so you can return fire and stop the threat. Which was the original point to the post...something anyone could make to provide real cover in your house.
 Sandbags are great(and I have quite a few ready to fill) but most houses couldn't take the weight without reinforcing the floors. Also it is something you probably wouldn't leave there all the time. So I was looking for something a little less obvious.
 Something like this (http://bulletproofme.com/PHOTO%20pages/Tactical-Ballistic-Blanket-PHOTOS.htm) would work but wouldn't stand on its own and only covers a little space. Also one of my concerns is rounds down range as you are responsible for anything that leave your weapon.
 I have a pact with my neighbor on one side of me that we both watch each others house and if need be offer tactical support and we are both storing supplies. I think he might have a small problem if bullets start penetrating his walls. For better or worse my defensive weapons for the house are a 12 gauge
and a .45. Both of which will smoke through the walls of my house.
 Anyway thats what I am trying to avoid.
 
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: da gooch on March 02, 2009, 07:35:22 pm
This may not work .... but I am trying to be helpful ....

How about using sandbags and building up a wall of sandbags on the outside of the house ?
Built up to about three feet above the interior floor level and stuccoed on the outside afterwards it wouldn't look that bad and it would make the floors a near safe haven.
Or those stack and soak concrete bags for making retaining walls and landscaping.
With ballistic blankets hung above on one or two sides you would have a place to stand and return fire with your MBR. All the while the rest of the family is didi mao-ing out the escape tunnel.

IF one had the wherewithal the entire wall could be "covered" and for the curious neighbor sand or dirt has excellent heat retention or reflection qualities.
"Just trying to save on the heating and cooling bills." or "Cheap external insulation. How are you beating down the utility bills ?"

A vapor barrier should be placed between the exterior wall and the sandbags to avoid water absorption by the wall and the subsequent rot. [dry rot] AS well as small screened vents below the house to allow for air circulation beneath the house as well.
[avoids molds, etc.]



 
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Wheatfields on March 02, 2009, 09:54:53 pm
If you're creating a defensible position on a 2nd floor, don't forget to protect the floor!  It would suck for you if you had armored walls and thought you were good to go, and a home invader just fired up through the ceiling.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: da gooch on March 02, 2009, 10:50:44 pm
 Good one Wheatfields.  :thumbsup:

That would suck wouldn't it. Ouch.
I should have thought of that myself BUT I happen to be a one story earth bermed ranch style kinda guy.
It never even crossed my widdle pea brain.

Thanks for catching up the slack.(er)   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Who...me? on March 03, 2009, 09:13:06 am
If you're creating a defensible position on a 2nd floor, don't forget to protect the floor!  It would suck for you if you had armored walls and thought you were good to go, and a home invader just fired up through the ceiling.

Lol ya that would really suck.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Limbic on April 01, 2009, 02:46:19 pm
Go to your local scrap dealer ask for 1090 spring steel plate  or 4140 1/8 in. plate start a camp fire( I do it im my barby pit ) get the plate up to the color of a cherry then pull it out and drop in in a bucket of H2O let it steam and cool. Heat it up  again until it looks the color of blue gun steel and air cool it
that is to say let it air cool. It should be about 58- 65 rockwell on the C scale it's easier than work hardening it(peening). Make sure it is already to size or you will  be grinding awhile as it is hardend and tempered. Will not stop a 7.62x51  AP but it will stop smaller 30 calibers and all most all  pistol rounds and a shot gun slug. Cheap compaired to Titanium plates. Boiler plate is good too but some contains asbestos so leave it be.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: bubba3354 on July 22, 2009, 09:20:33 pm
On the original post, does that work against good ol 5.56?  I've shot 1/4" plate, and regular old ball ammo zips right through it...  does the plywood make that much difference?

3 lays of 1/4 will stop 5.56 and most 7.62X51...
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Who...me? on July 22, 2009, 09:58:10 pm
No idea...found the original article over at SurvivalBlog.com and wondered if it had been field tested.  Sent the article and an e-mail to www.theboxotruth.com  but never heard anything back or saw anything on that site. Also sent mail to JWR trying to find out if he had anymore info but go no response.

And to that I don't have the cash to try it out myself.

So it never went anywhere and i kind am hard pressed to believe that the plywood would make that much difference...but who knows.

Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: bubba3354 on July 25, 2009, 09:15:38 am
I'll see if i can tackle that next time I hit the range..
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: BladeGuru on August 12, 2009, 06:22:26 pm
Back to the original question of body armor. I know that if it were me and i had to make something better than nothing. I would start with Vectran/Spectra or some fabric like it and stack it such that the direction of the weave is altered every 15 degrees. That way the bullet is always reunning into something.

The chinese made armor out of silk and glue this way. They also interjected pieces of leather.

My modern version would be similar. Id use some glue to glue the vectran together and interupting it with metal sheet and rubber tire for shock absorption.

Id play with different stackings and test that against a -06 round as a bench mark.

As for houses.... I like bermed monolithic domes.  It's tough to get a 50 cal bullet into several feet of dirt adn concrete. Its just tough!

BG
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Bear on August 17, 2009, 09:36:59 pm
If I had a stick frame house, I'd put concrete planters around it where I needed
ballistic protection. They look normal, so they don't attract attention, plus you
get 2 layers of concrete with soil in between.

If your floor can take the weight, sand bags against exterior walls is a good idea.
You might not put them everywhere but at least where you expect to have a
firing position.

Our house is a bit odd -- it's a berm-wall construction, earth sheltered home,
which has it's own issues. If I were getting skittish about security, I'd buy a
bunch of security cameras with wireless connections to cover my blind spots,
and one or two looking back at my place to look "over the shoulder" of anyone
trying to sneak up on us.

Bear
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: gaurdduck on August 17, 2009, 10:02:44 pm
If I had a stick frame house, I'd put concrete planters around it where I needed
ballistic protection. They look normal, so they don't attract attention, plus you
get 2 layers of concrete with soil in between.

If your floor can take the weight, sand bags against exterior walls is a good idea.
You might not put them everywhere but at least where you expect to have a
firing position.

Our house is a bit odd -- it's a berm-wall construction, earth sheltered home,
which has it's own issues. If I were getting skittish about security, I'd buy a
bunch of security cameras with wireless connections to cover my blind spots,
and one or two looking back at my place to look "over the shoulder" of anyone
trying to sneak up on us.

Bear


If I was in your position, I'd add an escape tunnel, an artillery piece, and A secret place to hide your soon-to-be-outlawed-goodies.
All on top of what you said.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: chutzpah on September 06, 2009, 03:01:36 pm
Does anyone have experience with use of this product? Defencell, Made in Nashville, TN. It is a fabric poly type material which is used as an interlinking wall which is then sandwich filled with sand, gravel, etc. The sizes start from small lengths to larger. Specs are listed on this link site.
http://www.defencell.com/pdfs/faqs.pdf
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: da gooch on September 07, 2009, 10:30:11 am
No sirĀ  but I really did like the photos at their website under Wall systems.

Now all I need is to win the Lotto to be able to afford the land to set it up on ....


edit to add ...
Of course if that happens I could afford professional body armor ....
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Polearm on September 07, 2009, 08:49:12 pm

Looks like a version of the older HESCO Bastion.

http://www.hesco.com/
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: jaybar on December 10, 2009, 03:57:32 pm
In urban and suburban areas I am aware of some building small exterior walls with landscape key stone bricks, either free standing or backed with mortor. They are good looking, cost effective, more durable than other brick options, and can be installed a little at a time. Also not likley to raise any eyebrows or violate any local codes.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: gaurdduck on December 10, 2009, 07:05:16 pm
Packing earth behind it makes it even better.
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: krash.landing on April 03, 2010, 10:20:44 pm
I live in a tidal area and my house is up about 5 ft off the ground... great for a raised platform... but the blocks it sits on can only take so much weight.  I installed a wood stove and stocked the house with about 4 tons of Liberty Bricks for fuel.  They are more dense than wood... stack great and uniform... and can line the walls for protection.  They are about 6 inches thick... because of the tides and weather... I needed something that can store inside... or be prepared to store the wood 3 ft off the ground.. this was a perfect solution.  www.libertybricks.com

Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: FDD on March 31, 2016, 07:26:51 am
Nice idea here, more things to think about
Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Rarick on April 15, 2016, 08:48:21 pm
Demolition ranch on youtube has a certain amount of silly fun shooting things with various calibers of rifle.  The have also investigated Tannerite to some extent.  FPSRussian on youtube is a similar nut, he has calmed down since a chunck of car door almost got him though.  There is a bulletinboard/ site like this called the High Road, and they have a box of truth as a reference.  Watching several hours of all that will give you a sense of ballistics, like how much paper it takes to stop a .50 BMG round.

Setting up ballistic barriers like flowerbeds is a discrete way to go, and from those and some other sites I have looked at I remember a rule of thumb.  1 foot thick of 3/4 inch sized crushed, and compacted, aggregate can stop most rifle rounds. If you find a durable containment for that, you now have a durable ballistic barrier.  The problem is, that can provide shelter for home invaders as well, so plan carefully.  Planters right up against the house where you have the abillity to shoot people hiding behind them is a good concept.....

Rammed earth is also a good barrier, I know there are bags made for that application.  What you put in those bags is invisible and you can stucco over them.  There are many Earthship and Rammed Earth homes being DIY'd on youtube.  I have several rammed earthbag retaining walls on the gulch that were salvaged from some recent cleanups, I mixed in local gulch dry clay with salvaged cement on those walls.  They are not going anywhere given the vertical rebar driven thru the bags when they were still wet and the tie backs from the wall I made with rebar hooked around those vertical ties.  the rebar going back into the hill is encased in cement filled earthbag.  This same technique could be used to make the walls of an earth sheltered house. If you want ballistic protection that is durable, forget about the planters and build a second, hidden and off the record, basement under your house with the money you save.  Maybe fortify a couple of points inside your house to cover your retreat.  Your whole house in a real SHTF situation becomes camouflage and the looters can have the big screen TV, or burn the house down for all you care. 

If you are talking about armor you can walk around in, a plate carrier and ar500 plate backed by a levelIIIa vest is as good as it gets and generally only covers the torso.  The kevlar IIIa vest is going to give you protection from casual knife attack, slash and snap cuts from a knife. A solid stab with something other than a kitchen knife will probably get you. If you want real protection from cutting threats, learn to make chainmail and cover the exposed artery areas with it, and add it to your arms so you have a real defense from cutting too.




Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: da gooch on April 19, 2016, 05:59:41 pm
FYI ...

libertybricks dotcom domain has expired. Just in case someone here is involved and or concerned.

I am assuming that they are dense wood-powder impregnated with a flammable epoxy or some such.

Does anyone happen to have a screen save or maybe it is on the wayback machine.(?)


Quote
The kevlar IIIa vest is going to give you protection from casual knife attack, slash and snap cuts from a knife. A solid stab with something other than a kitchen knife will probably get you. If you want real protection from cutting threats, learn to make chainmail and cover the exposed artery areas with it, and add it to your arms so you have a real defense from cutting too.
Ah yes traditional chainmail. It seems that more and more of the older technologies are being resurrected and ... hopefully in time for our use in realtime.

Some may giggle and smirk but these technologies are proven over long periods of time and fairly available to the home blacksmith which just Might regain its former position in our societies.

Title: Re: Home made armor
Post by: Rarick on April 23, 2016, 10:34:57 am
Titanium chainmail......just a concept to consider,  real fine links over a IIIA vest and what do you have?