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Partner Sites => Oath-Keepers => Topic started by: Elias Alias on March 25, 2009, 03:38:02 pm

Title: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Elias Alias on March 25, 2009, 03:38:02 pm
From the Oath-Keepers website, I'll paste in here the ten orders all Oath-Keepers are being asked to not obey. These are considered to be illegal orders and as such are in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and are introspective aspects of the Constitution, carried in its entire body in combination with the Bill of Rights:

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

~

Elias here. Just think about it - if all U.S. military personnel and all law-enforcement personnel, and all government employees were to swear an oath to honor those ten forbidden aggressions against the American people, we'd have a lot less to fear in America right now.  The above list gives us a deeper look at what is contained and implied within the Military/LEO oaths to support and defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Comments are welcome.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on March 25, 2009, 06:08:54 pm
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to recieve.

As a 23 year vet from the US Army Infantry, I can tell you that the soldiers don't get ANY training on the Constitution, yet we all swear to support and defend it! This has to change.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Elias Alias on March 25, 2009, 08:13:24 pm
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to recieve.

As a 23 year vet from the US Army Infantry, I can tell you that the soldiers don't get ANY training on the Constitution, yet we all swear to support and defend it! This has to change.

Amen, Bro!

You make a great point about educating uniformed forces before they receive illegal/unconstitutional orders. I think your idea has wings to fly into peripheral areas of operation in coming times - such as doing educational outreach activities to enhance public school  involvement in teaching the Constitution and Bill of Rights to our youth prior to their joining the military or law enforcement; and then contacting departments of local law enforcement as citizens, requesting that our local enforcement offices also teach the Constitution. Maybe even some general-public advertising ventures in newspapers, etc. And perhaps we could inspire some Senators and Representatives to make sure that our troops get Constitutional instructions during Boot Camp or training centers or induction centers. You're right - when I was in the military we were not taught a thing about the very document we swore to defend. Interesting, that. Let's think about ways to improve that oversight, eh? :)

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on March 25, 2009, 10:13:28 pm
The best I could manage in the Army was to train my squad and platoon on the Oath during Sergeant's Time training. I once tried to give a class on the Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, at a higher echelon, but was denied as it was "too controversial".

I have sent letters to most TV interviewers, requesting that they ask the next Colonel or General they interview a simple question. "What will you do if you are ordered to confiscate civilian owned firearms?" You can't tell me that isn't newsworthy, but no one will touch it. The fact that they won't ask the question that is on everyone's mind is a big red flag, to me, and makes the task of educating the line troops that much more urgent!
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Elias Alias on March 26, 2009, 04:17:16 am
The best I could manage in the Army was to train my squad and platoon on the Oath during Sergeant's Time training. I once tried to give a class on the Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, at a higher echelon, but was denied as it was "too controversial".

That's about it in a nutshell - "too controversial". That's pretty sad, isn't it? But it shows how far down that slippery slope our country has drifted over the years. I once noted that the American people are in a prison of their own making, behind bars consisting of "convenience, creature comforts, and constitutional concessions".  I salute you for attempting to spread the word about freedom and its relation to the Constitution and BoR while in service.

Quote
I have sent letters to most TV interviewers, requesting that they ask the next Colonel or General they interview a simple question. "What will you do if you are ordered to confiscate civilian owned firearms?" You can't tell me that isn't newsworthy, but no one will touch it. The fact that they won't ask the question that is on everyone's mind is a big red flag, to me, and makes the task of educating the line troops that much more urgent!

You're so right. TV interviewers are limited by corporate mandates coming from higher up than the cutting-room floor, so even if one chose to follow up on your suggestion, his efforts would likely be torpedoed from higher offices.  For an aware individual like yourself, what the media does *not say says more than what they *do say, right? :)

Thanks for signing on as an Oath-Keeper, and for registering here to share your experience. Welcome aboard!

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Orders We Will Not Obey - Long Form
Post by: da gooch on March 26, 2009, 01:07:40 pm
From the OathKeepers blogspot (http://www.oath-keepers.blogspot.com)

Oath Keepers: Orders We Will Not Obey {The Long Form}
"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army" - Gen. George Washington, to his troops before the battle of Long Island

Such a time is near at hand again. The fate of unborn millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this Army - and this Marine Corps, This Air Force, This Navy and the National Guard units of these sovereign states.

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, peace officers, and veterans who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic … and meant it.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and that oath will be kept. We won’t “just follow orders."

Below is our declaration of orders we will NOT obey because we will consider them unconstitutional (and thus unlawful) and immoral violations of the natural rights of the people. Such orders would be acts of war against the American people by their own government, and thus acts of treason. We will not make war against our own people. We will not commit treason. We will defend the Republic.

Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey

Recognizing that we each swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and affirming that we are guardians of the Republic, of the principles in our Declaration of Independence, and of the rights of our people, we affirm and declare the following:

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.

Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.

In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny. Accordingly, we oppose any and all further infringements on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In particular we oppose a renewal of the misnamed “assault-weapons” ban or the enactment of H.R. 45 (which would register and track gun owners like convicted pedophiles).

2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the use of warrantless searches known as “writs of assistance” and the first fiery embers of American resistance were born in opposition to those infamous writs. The Founders considered all warrantless searches to be unreasonable and egregious. It was to prevent a repeat of such violations of the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects that the Fourth Amendment was written.

We expect that warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.

3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the denial of the right to jury trial, the use of admiralty courts (military tribunals) instead, and the application of the laws of war to the colonists. After that experience, and being well aware of the infamous Star Chamber in English history, the Founders ensured that the international laws of war would apply only to foreign enemies, not to the American people. Thus, the Article III Treason Clause establishes the only constitutional form of trial for an American, not serving in the military, who is accused of making war on his own nation. Such a trial for treason must be before a civilian jury, not a tribunal.

The international laws of war do not trump our Bill of Rights. We reject as illegitimate any such claimed power, as did the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1865). Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the attempt “to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power” by disbanding the Massachusetts legislature and appointing General Gage as “military governor.” The attempt to disarm the people of Massachusetts during that martial law sparked our Revolution. Accordingly, the power to impose martial law – the absolute rule over the people by a military officer with his will alone being law – is nowhere enumerated in our Constitution.

Further, it is the militia of a state and of the several states that the Constitution contemplates being used in any context, during any emergency within a state, not the standing army.

The imposition of martial law by the national government over a state and its people, treating them as an occupied enemy nation, is an act of war. Such an attempted suspension of the Constitution and Bill of Rights voids the compact with the states and with the people.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

In response to the obscene growth of federal power and to the absurdly totalitarian claimed powers of the Executive, upwards of 20 states are considering, have considered, or have passed courageous resolutions affirming states rights and sovereignty.

Those resolutions follow in the honored and revered footsteps of Jefferson and Madison in their Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, and likewise seek to enforce the Constitution by affirming the very same principles of our Declaration, Constitution, and Bill of Rights that we Oath Keepers recognize and affirm.

Chief among those principles is that ours is a dual sovereignty system, with the people of each state retaining all powers not granted to the national government they created, and thus the people of each state reserved to themselves the right to judge when the national government they created has voided the compact between the states by asserting powers never granted.

Upon the declaration by a state that such a breach has occurred, we will not obey orders to force that state to submit to the national government.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the blockade of Boston, and the occupying of that city by the British military, under martial law. Once hostilities began, the people of Boston were tricked into turning in their arms in exchange for safe passage, but were then forbidden to leave. That confinement of the residents of an entire city was an act of war.

Such tactics were repeated by the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, and by the Imperial Japanese in Nanking, turning entire cities into death camps. Any such order to disarm and confine the people of an American city will be an act of war and thus an act of treason.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

Mass, forced internment into concentration camps was a hallmark of every fascist and communist dictatorship in the 20th Century. Such internment was unfortunately even used against American citizens of Japanese descent during World War II. Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boars, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, to the Cossacks, and to the Chechens, for example.

Such a vile order to forcibly intern Americans without charges or trial would be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason, regardless of the pretext used. We will not commit treason, nor will we facilitate or support it."NOT on Our Watch!"

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.

During the American Revolution, the British government enlisted the aid of Hessian mercenaries in an attempt to subjugate the rebellious American people. Throughout history, repressive regimes have enlisted the aid of foreign troops and mercenaries who have no bonds with the people.

Accordingly, as the militia of the several states are the only military force contemplated by the Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, for domestic keeping of the peace, and as the use of even our own standing army for such purposes is without such constitutional support, the use of foreign troops and mercenaries against the people is wildly unconstitutional, egregious, and an act of war.

We will oppose such troops as enemies of the people and we will treat all who request, invite, and aid those foreign troops as the traitors they are.

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the seizure and forfeiture of American ships, goods, and supplies, along with the seizure of American timber for the Royal Navy, all in violation of the people’s natural right to their property and to the fruits of their labor. The final spark of the Revolution was the attempt by the government to seize powder and cannon stores at Concord.

Deprivation of food has long been a weapon of war and oppression, with millions intentionally starved to death by fascist and communist governments in the 20th Century alone.

Accordingly, we will not obey or facilitate orders to confiscate food and other essential supplies from the people, and we will consider all those who issue or carry out such orders to be the enemies of the people.

10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

There would have been no American Revolution without fiery speakers and writers such as James Otis, Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine, and Sam Adams “setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”

Patrick Henry: "Give me Liberty, or Give me DEATH!"

Tyrants know that the pen of a man such as Thomas Paine can cause them more damage than entire armies, and thus they always seek to suppress the natural rights of speech, association, and assembly. Without freedom of speech, the people will have no recourse but to arms. Without freedom of speech and conscience, there is no freedom.

Therefore, we will not obey or support any orders to suppress or violate the right of the people to speak, associate, worship, assemble, communicate, or petition government for the redress of grievances.

— And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually affirm our oath and pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. Oath Keepers

The above list is not exhaustive but we do consider them to be clear tripwires – they form our “line in the sand,” and if we receive such orders, we will not obey them. Further, we will know that the time for another American Revolution is nigh. If such a revolution comes, at that time, not only will we NOT fire upon our fellow Americans who righteously resist such egregious violations of their God given rights, we will join them in fighting against those who dare attempt to enslave them.

NOTE: please also read our Principles of Our Republic We Are Sworn to Defend

More About Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers is a non partisan association of currently serving military, veterans, and peace officers who will fulfill our oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and not to any political party. In the long-standing tradition of the U.S. military, we are apolitical. We don’t care if unlawful orders come from a Democrat or a Republican, or if the violation is bi-partisan. We will not obey unconstitutional (and thus unlawful) and immoral orders, such as orders to disarm the American people or to place them under martial law. We won’t “just follow orders." Our motto: “Not on Our Watch!” or to put it even more succinctly, in the words of , General Anthony McAuliffe, "NUTS!".

There is at this time a debate within the ranks of the military regarding their oath. Some mistakenly believe they must follow any order the President issues. But many others do understand that their loyalty is to the Constitution and to the people, and understand what that means.

The mission of Oath Keepers is to vastly increase their numbers.

We are in a battle for the hearts and minds of our own troops.
Help us win it.
www.oath-keepers.blogspot.com
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jamiehenning on March 29, 2009, 01:29:00 am
Quote
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to receive.

I'm sure I sound like an uninformed idiot, so please help me fix that.  What kind of orders did military personnel receive during Katrina that would be considered unconstitutional.  Are we talking martial law?

--Jamie
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Elias Alias on March 29, 2009, 01:57:08 am
Quote
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to receive.

I'm sure I sound like an uninformed idiot, so please help me fix that.  What kind of orders did military personnel receive during Katrina that would be considered unconstitutional.  Are we talking martial law?

--Jamie

Heh! Jamie, if you were "uninformed", you would not have found your way here. :)

I think the problem most generally seen by folks here, pertaining to Katrina, is the problem of troops collecting, door to door, the citizens' guns. Taking guns from the American citizen should be entirely un-constitutional. And it was stressful because New Orleans was a traumatized area where good people needed most direly to have those guns to protect themselves and their properties.

A freeholder in a free country would have full control of his property, and would have the means to defend/protect that property, i.e., his guns.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Klapton Isgod on March 29, 2009, 09:31:11 am
Quote
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to receive.

I'm sure I sound like an uninformed idiot, so please help me fix that.  What kind of orders did military personnel receive during Katrina that would be considered unconstitutional.  Are we talking martial law?

--Jamie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC7z79-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhvV2uz10eA&feature=related
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jamiehenning on March 29, 2009, 11:31:33 am
I didn't realize that had occurred!  I'm outraged.  Had I been in those affected areas, I would have expected to be able to protect myself and my property!

--Jamie
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on March 29, 2009, 11:36:05 am
I didn't realize that had occurred!  I'm outraged.  Had I been in those affected areas, I would have expected to be able to protect myself and my property!

--Jamie

Obviously, those police and military personnel had no idea what is written in the Constitution. If they did, they willing obeyed unlawful orders. The government maintains that it has the right to suspend the Constitution during an emergency. During an emergency, we need the Constitution more than ever!
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Wyomiles on March 29, 2009, 05:23:13 pm
jamiehenning said...

"I didn't realize that had occurred! "

Keep reading jamie... this place has taught me so many things !
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Who...me? on March 29, 2009, 09:23:54 pm
jamiehenning said...

"I didn't realize that had occurred! "

Keep reading jamie... this place has taught me so many things !

+1
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: captkit on March 30, 2009, 04:47:51 am
Never in my life did I think (that websites would exist) but knew that a time would come that OATH KEEPERS would exist!
I am truly sorry that America has the government it has and that we elected them.Sometimes again and again.
Or in fact elected them the first ime.
I will stand with my brothers and sisters who have worn the uniform or who are currently wearing it.
Oath Keeper vowes will be stated before my General Orders.
I am olny 65,got a black belt 3 yrs ago,but have beeen on shooting teams since 58'.
Volunteered in 61' for the Army. From the 3rd to the 9th grade I was in Military School. Little ROTC in various High Schools.
The rest you can look up or read in books.
I am proud to be an OATH Keeper.
Point or watching your 6, I'll be there for you.
kit
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: UnknownSoldier on March 30, 2009, 10:34:41 am
ok I have no idea if this is the place to sign the "oath" or not or if i have joined the "oath keepers" but that is my intent I am a honorably discharged Vet and agree with everything here and the oath. when i was discharged there was never anything I signed or agreed to that said the oath I took to defend this constitution had or ever would expire.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on March 30, 2009, 02:05:03 pm
ok I have no idea if this is the place to sign the "oath" or not or if i have joined the "oath keepers" but that is my intent I am a honorably discharged Vet and agree with everything here and the oath. when i was discharged there was never anything I signed or agreed to that said the oath I took to defend this constitution had or ever would expire.

Welcome Unknown Soldier,

This is the temporary forum for the Oath Keepers and You are welcome to look around. Many like minded folks here-a-bouts.

To "sign-up" at Oath Keepers all you have to do is to write out your testimonial [your statement above is fine actually] and post it at the Oathkeepers blogsite by sending it to oathkeepersok@gmail.com.

Other than that there isn't really any form to sign or anything like that.
We Oath Keepers believe in Honor and honor the words of another Oath Keeper.

If you wanted to chat with any of the other Oath Keepers this is the place until we get our own forum at least.

Thank You for your Service.

gooch
Navy Oath Keeper since '66
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: MamaLiberty on March 30, 2009, 02:38:14 pm
Indeed yes, Elias. I consider this to be the core of the oath - vital to understanding it. I've posted this list and the link as a permanent part of The Price of Liberty front page.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jamie on March 30, 2009, 11:40:05 pm
I don't  believe in internet wolfing. 


I think Smedley Butler was and is right. And Lysander Spooner and a few others.


Even so I took the oath. With my real name.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Hillbilly123069 on March 31, 2009, 01:57:42 am
Pocket Constitution's can be aquired from the Heritage Foundation.I contacted them last year and they sent my almost a shoebox full free of charge.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on March 31, 2009, 07:03:04 am
Pocket Constitution's can be aquired from the Heritage Foundation.I contacted them last year and they sent my almost a shoebox full free of charge.

Great point! I need to get a bunch of those to pass around.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on March 31, 2009, 07:50:15 am
Two more sources for pocket Constitutions.

A free download here:

http://pocketconstitution.emthree.org/docs/Pocket%20Constitution%20v1.2.pdf

and a place to order multiple copies:

http://www.nccs.net/us_constitution.html
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Sky Cop on March 31, 2009, 08:45:24 pm
I have been sensing for some time that our country was a large bowl that would soon boil over.  I believe that time is finally upon us.  I have a belief in God first and foremost!  Then my commitment is to my Family and then this great Country.  No one person, no one position will change any of that.  I am an Oath Taker, and I swear to Keep it till my dying breath.  I will not betray that which is so sacred.  That more men and woman have died for our Freedom than (I believe) any other civilization.  Either way, Semper Fidelis! 

How fitting that my beloved Marine Corps Motto is says it all, "Always Faithful"   
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: SSgt_USAF_vet on April 03, 2009, 10:47:49 pm
Just watching those videos of the military's use during Katrina angers me to no end. But it does show that our soldiers ARE  willing to violate their oaths by following any unlawful order that comes their way. It's shameful. They should be indicted on charges of treason.

It underscores, however, and confirms our mission of educating our service men & women on what their actual duty is.

Long live the republic and may God bless us all!
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on April 04, 2009, 12:27:12 am
Just watching those videos of the military's use during Katrina angers me to no end. But it does show that our soldiers ARE  willing to violate their oaths by following any unlawful order that comes their way. It's shameful. They should be indicted on charges of treason.

It underscores, however, and confirms our mission of educating our service men & women on what their actual duty is.

Long live the republic and may God bless us all!

Just a little extra emphasis on that especially important statement.

I prefer to think that the military personnel in the Katrina aftermath were just as confused and disoriented as the rest of the people and simply didn't Know they were being given totally Unconstitutional orders by their Officers.
The Responsibility for this should Not be "swept under the rug" it should be pursued all the way up the chain of command to the Officer that issued or allowed the issuance of this illegal order.
Then that Officer should be "drummed out" and lose his or her pension. 

Thank You again Staff Sergeant for your Service and for showing up over here as well.

edit to remove an unnecessary comment on my part
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: SSgt_USAF_vet on April 05, 2009, 08:40:32 pm
It underscores, however, and confirms our mission of educating our service men & women on what their actual duty is.

Just a little extra emphasis on that especially important statement.

I prefer to think that the military personnel in the Katrina aftermath were just as confused and disoriented as the rest of the people and simply didn't Know they were being given totally Unconstitutional orders by their Officers.
The Responsibility for this should Not be "swept under the rug" it should be pursued all the way up the chain of command to the Officer that issued or allowed the issuance of this illegal order.
Then that Officer should be "drummed out" and lose his or her pension. 

Thank You again Staff Sergeant for your Service and for showing up over here as well.

edit to remove an unnecessary comment on my part

I completely agree; no need to 'edit to remove an unnecessary comment on my part' - you are right on the money.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Jeff Watts on April 08, 2009, 08:27:06 pm
So far, I agree with what I've read. So far, I'm in.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: richlub on April 19, 2009, 10:00:03 pm
Not sure if this is the right place for this as I have just joined.. If not I apologize.

Just wanted to say that although neither my wife nor myself have served in the Armed Forces, I just wanted to say that we watched the youtube video of the people retaking their oaths, as well as people taking their oaths for the first time... While watching the video my wife and I also took the oath for the first time and we will also honor it till we die.

God Bless all of you!

Scott
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: SSgt_USAF_vet on April 19, 2009, 11:23:57 pm
Not sure if this is the right place for this as I have just joined.. If not I apologize.

Just wanted to say that although neither my wife nor myself have served in the Armed Forces, I just wanted to say that we watched the youtube video of the people retaking their oaths, as well as people taking their oaths for the first time... While watching the video my wife and I also took the oath for the first time and we will also honor it till we die.

God Bless all of you!

Scott
We are proud to have you aboard, Scott; you and your wife! It is the duty of every citizen to protect the liberties our Founding Fathers articulated so well in the Constitution. Not all of us here served in the military or law enforcement, though we do constitute the majority, so yes, you are at the right place.

May God bless us all
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: captkit on April 20, 2009, 01:43:06 am
 Terrific  we are infidels  when leave our borders and rightwing extremist when we stay home.
I am extremely proud to be an OATH KEEPER.
They must be using super computers trying to figure out how many of us in our 70', 60' and 50's there are of us.
For as every person that posts they inform aleast ten more.Many won't post as they are sure  someone will profile them.
So many of us have shown we don't give a hoot by posting our names.As we fear nothing now except the destruction of our
Constitution.
Point or your 6 anytime.
Kit US Army
PS. Liking they way all services and folks are coming together. Some of those inter service bar room brawls really hurt.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on April 20, 2009, 09:56:55 am
Terrific  we are infidels  when leave our borders and rightwing extremist when we stay home.
I am extremely proud to be an OATH KEEPER.
They must be using super computers trying to figure out how many of us in our 70', 60' and 50's there are of us.
For as every person that posts they inform aleast ten more.Many won't post as they are sure  someone will profile them.
So many of us have shown we don't give a hoot by posting our names.As we fear nothing now except the destruction of our
Constitution.
Point or your 6 anytime.
Kit US Army
PS. Liking they way all services and folks are coming together. Some of those inter service bar room brawls really hurt.
"Some of those inter service bar room brawls really hurt."
I was Navy and some of the "best" bar room brawls I remember were with the Marines over "Who was first" [They were Officially First to be Organized] and just Exactly who pays whom. [hint= The USMC paychecks come from the Department of the Navy.]

Meanwhile those are and were just "sibling rivalry" what we are up against now is an external threat that threatens to end our mutual foundation.  On that we can agree.  And I know for certain my Marine Corps brethren will stand with this swabbie to defend this country and its Constitution from all enemies foreign or Domestic.

I think that the New World Order types have overplayed their hand and that the "cat is out of the bag" a bit too early.
Let us all Reach, Teach and Inspire.
Reach out to the Military [Active Duty, Active Reserve and Reserves] and to the Peace Officer organizations and remind them of their Oath.
OR ...
Teach them exactly what that oath says and explain to them what that means in the "real world".
At the same time let us all aspire to Inspire the loyalty to Our Constitution that we feel in everyone we meet.

This is not a Military and Peace Officers only thing.  This will effect the Grand Mother on the corner just as much as the gun-nut target shooting aficionado that lives in the country.

As Benjamin Franklin said [I paraphrase]  Let us all hang together Or we shall all hang separately.

IF there is no one to enforce the orders then those unconstitutional orders will never be enforced.

Stay Safe
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: captkit on June 15, 2009, 04:42:41 pm
Gooch: Did you catch this article ?
http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=1595
Captkit
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on June 15, 2009, 05:29:27 pm
No I had not seen it Kit.

I don't follow the Republicrats or the Demoblicans.
I believe as our first President did that "Parties" are an impediment to good governance.
They [the parties] hoodwink the public into relinquishing their individual responsibility to be an Informed, Involved and Active voter/citizen.

YMMV

My choice of Parties is the one that has liquor [Dark Rum is my choice] music and happy people dancing and talking.
Being a male I prefer to have more women than men at this "party".
I need the extras because I am not all that attractive to most women so the more there are the better chance I have of being considered "acceptable" by the women present.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CoolAunt on June 16, 2009, 02:20:57 pm

My choice of Parties is the one that has liquor [Dark Rum is my choice] music and happy people dancing and talking.
Being a male I prefer to have more women than men at this "party".


Kirk, my friend, is that you? :)
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on June 18, 2009, 08:54:26 pm
My name is not Kirk but I am friendly to single ladies.   :ph34r:
And even more friendly as the Rum flows ....   :rolleyes:

Sorry ....

Nope Not Kirk.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CoolAunt on July 01, 2009, 12:50:26 pm
My name is not Kirk but I am friendly to single ladies.   :ph34r:
And even more friendly as the Rum flows ....   :rolleyes:

Sorry ....

Nope Not Kirk.

Well, the part about the rum and chatting up the ladies could have been written by my buddy Kirk. He's so funny. He looks like a sea captain - an old salty dog - and rum is his beverage of choice. All he needs is a parrot to ride on his shoulder...but then he'd have parrot shit running down his back. Ewww! Never mind.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Mary S on July 02, 2009, 06:48:06 pm
This forum is a bit of a challenge to navigate around ..maybe because I am a female
and a have a poor sense of direction.  It is hard to determine how to respond
to a particular post. 
I came upon this site shortly after it was put up and was happy to see it up.
The concept is a great one. 
I am not military or law enforcement but I believe we are in the worst crisis in
this country that we have ever been in due to an unconstitutional POTUS, his
gang of thugs and half of the people in the country still drinking the kool-aid.
I also believe we need to get down on our knees in gratitude to God that we
have a military who has made so many sacrifices to keep the populace safe.
My burning question for anyone to answer (and I intend to pose this to the
founder of the site as well).  Having reaffirmed your oath to uphold the
Constitution and outlined the orders you will NOT obey...isn't the next
logical step to present to the government your intention to not obey
these orders. In a formal way....here are our names, numbers and ranks,
sign off on it and present it to the government and let them know.
That would be a powerful message to let them know - hey you can't
just expect to put martial law in effect and the cops are going to swoop
down and start collecting guns.  Anyone please address this.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: freewoman on July 02, 2009, 07:19:33 pm
Welcome, Mary!  I'm not an Oathkeeper, but Gooch is out of town, and Elias and Stewart are busy preparing for the Tea Party and other festivities this weekend, so I'll tackle the question. 

As you navigate the forum (which is actually pretty easy to get around, once you get used to it; I'm a member of a dozen or so forums--fori?--and find this one the easiest to figure out), you'll find that we are a diverse bunch.  We figure the .gov already has many of our names and addresses in their little black books, so to speak.  Not that we're paranoid without reason, but I doubt you'll find many forums with a smiley face donning a little tinfoil hat!   :tinfoil:  Most of us (can't speak for all, and won't do so--we're all individuals here) have decided to work toward freedom in our own ways. 

So, to answer your burning question--the next step is not to present intentions to the government, but to live freedom day by day.  Oathkeepers are asked to spread the message to others, but there's no official organization (other than that of volunteers willing to tell others about the concept). 

Thanks for asking, and thanks for joining us.  Take a look around--there's a tremendous amount of information here, and lots of great people.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on July 02, 2009, 09:58:43 pm
Mary,

The intent of the awareness campaign we are waging is to educate and create a consciousness among all the patriotic souls who have sworn an Oath to the Constitution. Not to present the government with an ultimatum, but to give a potential tyrant pause. Any despot who might want to issue an order to confiscate privately owned firearms, for example, would be forced to ask themselves,"If I give this order, will that spell the end for me? Will those faithful to the Constitution refuse to obey my unlawful order, or even arrest me?" Once we have achieved that level of awareness, we will have won a great victory for freedom, without firing a shot.

Of course, there is more to it, but that is the general idea. Create a political environment so charged with patriotism and love of freedom, backed up by the Constitutional Oaths of We the People, that such an order dare not be given. Sun Tzu, himself, would be proud of that strategy!
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 02, 2009, 10:56:09 pm
Mary,

The intent of the awareness campaign we are waging is to educate and create a consciousness among all the patriotic souls who have sworn an Oath to the Constitution. Not to present the government with an ultimatum, but to give a potential tyrant pause. Any despot who might want to issue an order to confiscate privately owned firearms, for example, would be forced to ask themselves,"If I give this order, will that spell the end for me? Will those faithful to the Constitution refuse to obey my unlawful order, or even arrest me?" Once we have achieved that level of awareness, we will have won a great victory for freedom, without firing a shot.

Of course, there is more to it, but that is the general idea. Create a political environment so charged with patriotism and love of freedom, backed up by the Constitutional Oaths of We the People, that such an order dare not be given. Sun Tzu, himself, would be proud of that strategy!

Well put and just to make it clear this is not a empty threat but it is my sincere wish that it never comes to the point that we have to prove we mean business
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on July 03, 2009, 10:08:18 am
Well put and just to make it clear this is not a empty threat but it is my sincere wish that it never comes to the point that we have to prove we mean business

I used the firearms confiscation scenario, not only because of the stated and demonstrated intentions of the current administration, but to illustrate the necessary component of any diplomatic negotiations-- the credible 'or else'. The "Great Obama Gun Rush" did not occur because the free citizens of this nation wanted to have something nice to turn in.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Stewart the Yalie on July 17, 2009, 06:13:15 pm
This forum is a bit of a challenge to navigate around ..maybe because I am a female
and a have a poor sense of direction.  It is hard to determine how to respond
to a particular post. 
I came upon this site shortly after it was put up and was happy to see it up.
The concept is a great one. 
I am not military or law enforcement but I believe we are in the worst crisis in
this country that we have ever been in due to an unconstitutional POTUS, his
gang of thugs and half of the people in the country still drinking the kool-aid.
I also believe we need to get down on our knees in gratitude to God that we
have a military who has made so many sacrifices to keep the populace safe.
My burning question for anyone to answer (and I intend to pose this to the
founder of the site as well).  Having reaffirmed your oath to uphold the
Constitution and outlined the orders you will NOT obey...isn't the next
logical step to present to the government your intention to not obey
these orders. In a formal way....here are our names, numbers and ranks,
sign off on it and present it to the government and let them know.
That would be a powerful message to let them know - hey you can't
just expect to put martial law in effect and the cops are going to swoop
down and start collecting guns.  Anyone please address this.

We nearly did that at Lexington on April 19, and shortly thereafter, but we want to build our org a bit first.  But yes, we will do so.   And when we do, we will present it to all the state legislatures as well as Congress.   But even prior to a formal presentment of our intentions, our declaration is getting attention, count on it.

Stewart
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Elias Alias on July 18, 2009, 04:33:37 pm
 And when we do, we will present it to all the state legislatures as well as Congress.   

Stewart

Yesterday I attended an anti-Universal health care and anti-Cap and Trade rally in Bozemen. I introduced the Oath Keepers message to Montana Senator Jon Tester's Bozeman office. I noted that we citizens would enjoy seeing Senator Tester honor his oath. Since the Senator was not present, I'll have to return for a face-to-face with him when his time permits, and if that takes very long to achieve, I'll present our movement to him via certified mail.

I should note that while in town for that demonstration, Stewart, I was approached by many people who had taken the oath at the Oath Keepers ceremony this past Fourth, and their satisfaction with your presentations here in Bozeman was expressed. You and the Oath Keepers are very well-received here. In our upcoming new weekly newspaper, Oath Keepers will have a weekly presence. We're starting to get the ball rolling here, and your presence on the Fourth of July this year will bear much good fruit. Thanks again for making the trip and giving our community a first-hand education of the Oath Keepers mission.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: icbkr on July 25, 2009, 05:42:59 pm
If anyone asks you about "quarantine" as opposed to isolation and "concentration camp" like activities, explain to them that biological disease outbreaks only affect an entire town in sci fi shows.  Normal disease progression would never require the isolation of an entire community or town or city, except in horror movies.  It *might* be necessary to require anyone coming or going to be cleaned/tested, but you'd never have a medical justification for isolating an entire population center.  Not even if they actually released a "super" flu weapon or aliens landed.  I had a sticking point on the "will not" section with a friend, and once we got to comparing reality versus all those great movies, he came around.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jessme on July 26, 2009, 01:14:43 pm
Thank you for posting that icbkr, it is very important to have that known by as many as possible. While The Stand makes for some mighty good reading, most likely scenarios would not involve imposed quarantine, especially not if it is H1N1 because it is a simple given that it is in no way shape or form containable at any level at this point.

"the next step is not to present intentions to the government, but to live freedom day by day.  Oathkeepers are asked to spread the message to others, but there's no official organization "


I can really get beind that, but still think that there will come a point in time where self defense will become necessary.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: usmc2541wife on August 05, 2009, 11:43:19 pm
DANG! Reading all this makes me so proud to be here!!
You guys are GREAT!!
I can't wait to get to know you more and maybe get my marine involved here too! :love4:
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 06, 2009, 10:19:00 am
Welcome and thanks for becoming an Oath keeper.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: PaleRider on August 16, 2009, 05:08:19 pm
Yes, I'm a member of Oath-Keepers (IronHorse76) is the user name there.  Learned about it from a LEO friend of mine last month. Took the oath in 1976 when I joined  the army. 
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: mgwood on September 09, 2009, 01:07:40 pm
My husband's and my family fought from WWII forward.  We both lost uncles overseas.  My dad was Army Air and was shot down, but did come home, otherwise I wouldn't be here.   :laugh: 

We are both deeply appreciative of our Military.  We have been worrying about what would happen "if"...........happens.  Well, each day brings that thought and fear closer to home.  We worry about our children and grandchildren.  We worry deeply about what is happening to our country. 

We determined that NO one was going to take our freedoms away from us.  We would stand and proudly state......"Give me Liberty, or Give me Death!", If God be for us, who can be against us..........and fight like hell. 

I was so relieved to find OathKeepers on FB, and today found this forum.  I had wondered who would actually be these OathKeepers.  Surely they would be military and law enforcement.  But, wouldn't they have to follow orders given by authority?

I can't tell you how much we appreciate each of you, and we will lend our hand and whatever else we are able to do.   I do have a question.  Will there be enough of us, will we have strength in numbers?  I am thinking there will be those that will not join, but instead might go against.  I tend to worry.  I'm 57 and my husband is 60.  We are raising our youngest grandson who is Autistic.  He isn't 4 yet, and so many things scare him.  I guess my question is.........how safe are we right now?

We are loyal and know where our allegiance is.  It is with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and all it holds.......including the Bill of Rights....Amendments.  We won't give up or give in.

Sorry to go on so long.

Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on September 09, 2009, 09:35:36 pm
Welcome, mgwood.

Most of us are veterans, police and active duty military, but we are just as happy to have citizen Oath Keepers, too! Every voice supporting the Constitution is welcome!
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jessme on September 26, 2009, 10:30:44 pm
Where are the Oathkeepers in Pittsburgh? Do they not have any??? It sure doesn't look like. Just go on youtube and you will see MANY instances of unwarranted police brutality.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on September 27, 2009, 08:42:37 pm
Where are the Oathkeepers in Pittsburgh? Do they not have any??? It sure doesn't look like. Just go on youtube and you will see MANY instances of unwarranted police brutality.

Where are You ?

Did I see you in the front lines trying to get any of them to stop their police state actions ?

Why is a brand new organization [Oath Keepers] at fault here ?
We have to get to the members of the Police departments and convert them to Oath Keepers before we can "DO" anything.
You expect what miracles ?

I just went and checked and in the entire state of Pennsylvania we have 56 members.
Without opening each and every one of their pages I don't have a number of how many are actually in Pittsburgh.

Are You in Pittsburgh ?
Have You gotten all of Your local peace officers onboard ?
Have you passed out some pocket Constitutions to them ?
Just WHAT have You done to ameliorate the same type situation in Your area ?
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Klapton Isgod on September 27, 2009, 08:45:21 pm
I'm in PA, about six hours away.  Of course, if I was given such an order, I would disobey it.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jessme on September 28, 2009, 12:26:31 am
I am sorry, I didn't mean to come off so harsh, and of course Oathkeepers is still being formed and I should realize that. I live in Oklahoma, myself. I can do little here, so I hope it is okay, but on some of the youtube sites, I posted the tenth order an Oathkeeper would not obey and the link to the Oathkeepers website and said that the riot police in my opinion were NOT in any way shape or form defending the constitution, which is what their job is supposed to be.

I am a veteran, and have the utmost respect for LEO's, which is why it sickened and saddened me to see such abuses of power. A lot of those college kids were not anywhere near the G20 summit, but were on their own campuses, and were holding up signs and speaking up, but many were just observing and also just trying to get back to their own dorm room, when they were trapped on the stairs and gassed.

I see footage of demonstrations around the world, but to see our own people being treated this way shocked me. It has been a wake up call to me, that is for sure. Whatever I can do, I will. If there are opportunities to use my constitutional rights to assembly anywhere in Oklahoma or even within a day's drive away, I will do so. I only wish I could do more, and once again apologize for coming off the way I did..I need to realize that we are on the same side here.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Bernie on September 29, 2009, 08:22:46 am
I have been posting more than my share of the G20 Pittsburgh coverage.  I do it to show that there is clearly a need for us to get out there and spread the message.  Rumor has it that many of those Police without badges were imports.  This is done to remove the emotional ties that might be present from local Police.  Kinda like Martial Law with foreign troops.
A good beginning would be for the local Pittsburgh Police to scream from the top of their lungs, "That wasn't us!  We would not do that to our citizens.  Those thugs were imported."
Well that is my rant and I am sticking to it. :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Don Adams on October 04, 2009, 07:37:11 am
Folks, the recent American Police Force incident in Hardin, MT gives me a bit of a reason for concern. Even though the local citizens aren't all Oath Keepers they raised the alarm about a situation they felt was to their detriment even though the local media failed to do much. Google if you want information. This is an indication that when the American populace senses something amiss they'll respond and support those, like Oath Keepers, who will lead the way to stop any erosion of their rights.

Except for New Orleans maybe. We need to insure that something like that doesn't ever happen again, although I'm 100% supportive of any group or organization that disarms the criminal element and there were some who were firing on the authorities. Let's not paint with an overly broad brush. Let's wholeheartedly support our law-abiding fellow citizens and support those who seek to disarm the criminal element.

Just another 2 cents worth. I'm leaving the house soon to meet up with some fellow Tea Party/912ers for some local training sessions and a picnic. Think about doing that locally and adding in a bit of OK recruiting. Have a fantastic day.

Don in Texas
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: freewoman on October 04, 2009, 10:02:08 pm
Welcome, Don.  If you have the time to peruse some of the threads here, you'll find an active thread on the Hardin situation in General Discussion.  You'll also find many who are doing just what you're doing--spreading the word on OK and on other freedom issues.  Good to have you aboard.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: GregoryS on February 21, 2010, 07:33:35 am

  I am a Warrant Officer in the United States Army, and guys,  I'd give up any hope that there are many good men commanding our troops.  I watch these guys in action every single day and I don't have any faith in them.  They swear to an honor code in addition to every other oath they take.  You know, the whole "not lie cheat or steal...etc..etc..   I challenge anyone to count the amount these guys lie to us, each other, and their superiors in a given day.  A Staff Sergeant who worked for me was relieved of duty when he refused to follow an illegal order given by my Battalion Commander.  The order was not in support of the mission or any kind of emergency.  The Battalion Commander simply wanted to hide an error in planning from his own superiors.  When I supported my NCO, you guessed it, I was relieved too.  An order to commit a federal crime simply out of fear people would find out he made a mistake.  That's what these guys do.  They will cash in every drop of integrity they have to avoid looking foolish in front of their own peers.  To expect any of them to question whether an order they receive is illegal or not is asking too much. 

  We were later cleared but they will never forget we refused to follow an order.  He was never investigated even though I can still prove without question he KNOWINGLY gave an illegal order.  Guess it's okay as long as you're playing for the team right?  Nobody would touch it.  The second we said his name doors started to close.  Our Uniformed Code of Military Justice only works downward. 

  Also,  we aren't exactly volunteers as described.  We are PROFESSIONAL Soldiers.  We get paid to do what we do.  These men aren't leaders because of some moral drive.  These Generals are here for the glory, the book they get to write later, the pay, and the status.  If you stopped paying them, or they no longer got to force Soldiers to sit listen to their speeches, they would stop showing up.  There are some great men and women in our Armed Forces.  The problem is, they are led by men who are just as mercenary as Black Water and as much a self styled diva as Paris Hilton. 

Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: CorbinKale on February 21, 2010, 02:23:17 pm
GregoryS,

  Oath Keepers can't reach, or convince everyone. You and the SSG mentioned are ALREADY Oath Keepers and are the perfect example of what Oath Keepers is working to achieve. We know that many of the command structure are a lost cause, since they are only interested in self-promotion. With Oath Keepers becoming a known entity and a real presence in the ranks, such political commanders will have to take pause and consider the impact to their personal careers should a percentage of the soldiers under their command refuse to obey unconstitutional, therefore unlawful, orders.

  Thank you for your service and doing the right thing when it wasn't the easy thing.

/salute
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jamie on February 21, 2010, 04:22:27 pm

  I am a Warrant Officer in the United States Army, and guys,  I'd give up any hope that there are many good men commanding our troops.  I watch these guys in action every single day and I don't have any faith in them.  They swear to an honor code in addition to every other oath they take.  You know, the whole "not lie cheat or steal...etc..etc..   I challenge anyone to count the amount these guys lie to us, each other, and their superiors in a given day.  A Staff Sergeant who worked for me was relieved of duty when he refused to follow an illegal order given by my Battalion Commander.  The order was not in support of the mission or any kind of emergency.  The Battalion Commander simply wanted to hide an error in planning from his own superiors.  When I supported my NCO, you guessed it, I was relieved too.  An order to commit a federal crime simply out of fear people would find out he made a mistake.  That's what these guys do.  They will cash in every drop of integrity they have to avoid looking foolish in front of their own peers.  To expect any of them to question whether an order they receive is illegal or not is asking too much. 

  We were later cleared but they will never forget we refused to follow an order.  He was never investigated even though I can still prove without question he KNOWINGLY gave an illegal order.  Guess it's okay as long as you're playing for the team right?  Nobody would touch it.  The second we said his name doors started to close.  Our Uniformed Code of Military Justice only works downward. 


  Also,  we aren't exactly volunteers as described.  We are PROFESSIONAL Soldiers.  We get paid to do what we do.  These men aren't leaders because of some moral drive.  These Generals are here for the glory, the book they get to write later, the pay, and the status.  If you stopped paying them, or they no longer got to force Soldiers to sit listen to their speeches, they would stop showing up.  There are some great men and women in our Armed Forces.  The problem is, they are led by men who are just as mercenary as Black Water and as much a self styled diva as Paris Hilton. 



Perfumed Princes. Careerists and some other adjectives I won't use.  The UCMJ is anything but.  Second Corbin Kale.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on February 27, 2010, 09:00:00 pm
jamie,

As one anarchist to another..................if you don't have anything nice to say then say nothing.............
A wedge needs both an edge and width to split a log...................think about that..............
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: pachristianpatriot on September 23, 2010, 03:17:54 am
Awesome!!
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jamie on September 23, 2010, 04:56:13 pm
jamie,

As one anarchist to another..................if you don't have anything nice to say then say nothing.............
A wedge needs both an edge and width to split a log...................think about that..............

I am not sure who you thought I was talking about but it wasn't the warrant officer.   See the book or the series, Once an Eagle for an explanation. Or read About Face or Soldier for further explanation.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on September 29, 2010, 11:34:40 pm
HUH ?
I also don't understand what Jamie supposedly said that needed correction.

I understood him to be supporting and applauding both the WO and CorbinKale.
That was your intention wasn't it Jamie ?

I understood the "Perfumed Princes. Careerists and some other adjectives I won't use.  The UCMJ is anything but." comment to be directed at the unlawful order issuing [supposedly] superior officer [et al] that the WO was reporting about in his comment.

I don't get it Zoot .... sorry.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on September 29, 2010, 11:58:24 pm
Oh geez.............that was way back in February and I can't remember what I was thinking at the time  :laugh:
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: da gooch on September 30, 2010, 12:46:01 am
Oh geez.............that was way back in February and I can't remember what I was thinking at the time  :laugh:

Yet another reason I gave up Thinking.
It always seemed to get me into trouble or places I couldn't get away from fast enough ....
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Jake on May 07, 2016, 01:25:21 am
Yet another reason I gave up Thinking.
It always seemed to get me into trouble or places I couldn't get away from fast enough ....

When mudding, some people put directional tires on backwards
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: jamie on May 07, 2016, 08:57:57 pm
HUH ?
I also don't understand what Jamie supposedly said that needed correction.

I understood him to be supporting and applauding both the WO and CorbinKale.
That was your intention wasn't it Jamie ?

I understood the "Perfumed Princes. Careerists and some other adjectives I won't use.  The UCMJ is anything but." comment to be directed at the unlawful order issuing [supposedly] superior officer [et al] that the WO was reporting about in his comment.

I don't get it Zoot .... sorry.

Very late with this not that it matters but Gooch is dead on. That is what I was trying to convey.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Freeman13 on May 25, 2016, 12:53:57 pm
I believe that we have our answers to whether or not the trigger pullers will fire on American citizens.

When it comes right down to it the saying that Bush made famous, 'If your not with us your with the terrorist' will be in the conditioned minds of most all of the rank and file that is deployed to either put down insurrection or confiscate weapons, food or what ever the command structure at that time orders to be taken.   Twenty some odd years ago the vast majority of the people serving would not follow the type of illegal orders that are on the shelf now in the NDAA, Patriot Act, PPE etc.  Simply put, that is because they were trained with ethics, morals, Constitution and UCMJ. 

In today's military this isn't the case.  The new recruit and his trainer have been thoroughly conditioned to follow the edicts and orders from on high without asking why or giving it a second thought.  The past TRADOC curriculum has taken many of the old course work training mentioned above out of the basic through AIT training.

When the already built up and documented orders are given to quell unrest or confiscate personal stores of food, weapons and ammunition, all justified on National Security, we will see individual members and even whole units of the armed forces jumping over the wire to join in the defense of the Republic from the true domestic and foreign enemy. 

This brings me to address the fact that our federal government and the military have been taken over by globalist who care not for the people of this country or the men and women that serve in its armed forces.  Those that have the inside knowledge that there have been agreements made to introduce foreign military to help out in the case of civil unrest and to use private para-military contractors to work alongside the oath breakers in our military have either stayed silent about these plans or blown the whistle on this treason to the detriment of themselves and their careers. 

Sadly the clarion calls made by these patriots who have spoken up have not been taken very seriously by many in the liberty movement.  This is in my opinion due to rampant normalcy bias that afflicts many of the members within the cause and even some of the leadership too.  Combine this mentality with the obvious infiltration of federal Co-Intel-Pro operatives and the future outcome of any resistance looks bleak to say the least no matter how well the future battle space is shaped through RTI or education on the original constitution or the orders that we will not obey.

What I am trying to say is that foreign military will not hesitate to fire on Americans, payed mercenaries will not hesitate to fire on Americans and the Millennials who fill the ranks of our own military will not disobey the orders given to them either.   Once they are fired on by these unethical contractors to make it look like it was patriots doing it, they will follow their training to protect the man on their left and right, closing with and destroying the enemy just like we were taught to do.

I have read many times on different comment sections that Oath Keepers and 3% are all talk, although talk does have a place and OK does fill that spot very well, 3% groups have their own problems with infiltration and summer soldiers in their ranks but I don't believe that they are all talk, just biding their time until needed.  For myself, I have grown to believe that the time for talk is well past and the time to train and prepare is on our doorsteps.  It is neither illegal to do so and it is down right common sense to begin in earnest yesterday.  CPT is an excellent way to do this but I fear that there are too many summer soldiers in the movement to make much of a large scale difference in the coming storm if these groups are not allowed to branch out to other security type groups as in Militia's to combine their knowledge and resources for the time that is coming.  The concept of CPT is an outstanding initiative that makes the Oath Keepers more than just an educational organization, but in turn it places the organization and its members in a different category of perceived threats to the UN-American and treasonous tyrants that we face.  So why not go all the way instead of trying to look like the organization that it started out to be?  Quit concerning yourselves with whether or not the target audience is being driven away and look to the wide awake cognitive dissident people who will not follow illegal orders.

Now hopefully some of the realist that I know frequent here will chime in with their experienced opinions and suggestions on not if, but when we will be confronting this situation in the future when oath takers dishonor their oaths, foreign soldiers run amuck and immoral Americans who are paid do unlawful things because they were ordered to do them under color of law.
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: FDD on May 25, 2016, 03:21:27 pm
Hey Freeman
welcome bro

I hear you about what passes as our military now
but also think about this, their rifle training is not the same as when we went through it.
and how much do people still train? both in and out of the military?
people out do so because they want to, those in do it because they have to.

same for the police, most never fire their weapon but once a year.
take NYC, over 40 shots fired but only 9 hits, and about half did not go through the clothes.
So where did all those other bullets go?
Title: Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
Post by: Jake on May 26, 2016, 12:00:57 am
I checked with my ole' shipmate, 32 yr E9 gone contractor, about conditions shipboard.  He said that there isn't enough fuel money to deploy.  So everyone is going in late and sitting around computers taking classes to finish degrees or trying to advance to Officer.