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Partner Sites => Oath-Keepers => Topic started by: da gooch on April 27, 2011, 12:12:38 am

Title: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: da gooch on April 27, 2011, 12:12:38 am
Apparently the veterans and currently serving in Brandon, Mississippi don't much appreciate out of town rabble rousers.

Read more HERE (http://thehayride.com/2011/04/westboro-baptist-church-goes-to-mississippi-and-loses/)

Some of the responses were interesting as well.


I think this is a viable response to these sort of rabble rousers who twist the "Law" to shield their misinterpretation of the Law.
They are protesting as a political act against the US Government but they are protesting at a private funeral NOT at their local US Government Office.
So why exactly is it classed as an expression of free speech and not as "inciting to riot" ?

[Personal Opinion Follows]
I hope we see much more of this sort of coincidental, accidental and entirely violence free response from our communities when a fallen soldier, seaman, marine or airman comes home to rest in hallowed ground with his ancestors. I do Not condone the assault upon one of the Protesters as reported in the article.
[end of personal opinion]


Thoughts anyone ?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Rarick on April 27, 2011, 03:34:19 am
Done about right.  No real initiation of force, but exactly the type of coercion they are trying to use- turned back on them.  Excellent.  Monkey war...........
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: rasmith442 on April 27, 2011, 10:21:12 am
I'm glad somebody finally found a way to handle these hate-mongers. Free speech does not equate with emotionally assaulting grieving families.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: MommaHen on April 27, 2011, 10:58:02 am
I was cheering as I read this.

Way to go People of Brandon MS!
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Clip Johnson on April 27, 2011, 11:38:22 am
First, this is appalling for ANYONE to act in the manner these people do. Why do they do it and with what justification (Biblical or otherwise)? Such crap never ceases to amaze me.

And as already expressed here, I am glad to see someone effectively deal with these "dangerous and spiteful" people.

The one striking thing to me (other than these folks "appear" to be just a TINY bit touched in the head) is these members of Westboro Baptist Church apparently either didn't read their Bibles, or they are obviously perfect, flawless human beings who are without sin. The Bible clearly states in Matthew 7: 1-6:

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. 

It seems pretty clear to me that this passage of Scripture expressively prohibits such hypocritical judgment of others. Further, the hypocrisy of "so called Christians" are emotional roadblocks to just about everyone. In fact, hypocrisy in the church probably repels more people than any other factor (and for good reason). Someone once said the biggest problem with Christianity is Christians! And I can't doubt it! I just thank God that not all are as similarly situated as these nut-jobs.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on May 07, 2011, 04:59:20 pm
Quote
Free speech does not equate with emotionally assaulting grieving families.

hhhmmm............emotional assault eh?............very porcine sounding........yes indeed
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Rarick on May 11, 2011, 07:12:20 am
Emotional assault- no.   Disrespectful/ unethical treatment yes.  If they disrespect other human beings like this, what does that mean if there is no action to futher marginalize them?  These people have done nothing but lost a loved one to the defnse of a greater community.  To disrespect them for the actions of an independant adult member of their family is wrong.  The adult if he acted wrongly, paid his price.  The family is paying a price for losing a member, right or wrong.   

Quite frankly if one of these people showed up asking for "christian charity" they would get none since they plainly show they have none themselves.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on May 11, 2011, 05:37:34 pm
The defense of a greater community............well that's a very interesting way to describe being paid to kill people in the absense of any other gainful employment.

Now don't get me wrong..........I wouldn't protest at someones grave, but that's just blind respect on my behalf...........but to give "words" the power of "actions" is a VERY grave error indeed..............and will most assuredly come back to bite you in the butt at some point in the future.

And would you give your brave guardians of this purported "greater community" carte blanche authorization to stifle, by force of arms if neccessary, any groupings of words that you, or even worse, "they" find offensive?

And no, I wouldn't grant them christian charity either............but by the same token, I wouldn't send thugs to thump them in the head because "I" don't like what they're saying either, because if "I" can do such a thing, so can anyone else........and inevitably it might be "my", or "your" head getting thumped...........maybe because "I" posted a picture of a dead snake on some social site?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Junker on May 11, 2011, 05:46:27 pm
 :ph34r:

Ya notice? It seems Rarick has just had enough of Liberty... It too often gets
in the way of great plans... and those great planners.

 :ph34r:
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Rarick on May 12, 2011, 05:34:12 am
lol
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: da gooch on May 12, 2011, 11:31:57 pm


So far as I can tell no one has offered to "send thugs to thump them in the head".

The one person who got thumped got thumped by a single person and that was after [apparently] a "heated argument'" at a gas station in Brandon.

While there probably was some degree of animosity towards the WB protester prior to the thumping it was not an "organized" effort to "beat some sense into the dirtbags" and it was only one person doing the thumping.

I have no love for a "Standing Army" but I do respect the burden that the volunteer assumes when they enlist to "support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic."
I have done so myself.
I took that oath freely and knowing that it Might mean surrendering my life in the defense of "my country". MUCH has changed in both myself and in "my country" since 1966.

Let the person who was born Knowing that the lies spouted by Fed Gov were exactly that be the one who first criticizes someone who in their political ignorance attempts to "do the right thing".

I grow weary of people who claim that "national borders" mean nothing and yet promise to defend their "private property" with violence.

Hypocrisy it sounds like to me.

{ Please remember that this "section" of TMM is the Oath Keepers section and NOT anarchy central. It is intended as a place for Persons who have taken the Oath to the Constitution to converse without interruption by those who do not value that oath or the Constitution. Thank You.}
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: CorbinKale on May 13, 2011, 08:04:54 am
If parking their butts at funerals to protest is free speech, then surely parking behind their cars in counter-protest is free speech, too. The Patriot Guard Riders have another very effective method of countering the WB nuts with their own free speech. The answer is always MORE freedom. If you ever find yourself calling for restrictions on freedom, you have been duped into putting chains on your own ankle.

http://www.patriotguard.org/

I don't condone the thumping of the individual, but human nature is a fact of life, regardless of purist ethical philosophies. People will only tolerate so much before they respond in kind, or worse. Sometimes groups of people gather together and KILL those, who have bedevilled them. I'm not saying that is ethical, or morally pure, but it happens pretty predictably. Mike's grandpa summed it up very well with his wolverine metaphor.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Lenny on May 13, 2011, 11:11:33 am
If parking their butts at funerals to protest is free speech, then surely parking behind their cars in counter-protest is free speech, too.

The problem is that neither of those things is "free speech." Parking your butt at a funeral is by permission of the cemetery owner, or the sidewalk owner, or the road owner, depending where exactly you park your butt. Parking your truck is by permission of the parking lot owner.

So in a free society, the WBC people would be trespassing and could be evicted, unless they managed to get permission from a property owner near the funeral, in which case the relevant property owner can be boycotted or shunned by his neighbors.

But also in a free society, if the WBC had permission from the hotels to lodge there and park in the parking lot, they would be contractually obligated not to imprison them in their hotel rooms, confiscate their cars, etc. The ones who parked them in would be trespassing if they didn't have the hotel's permission, and if they did, the hotel would be in violation of its contract and liable for damages.

On the whole I'd say close, but no cigar on this one.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: CorbinKale on May 13, 2011, 04:13:41 pm

The problem is that neither of those things is "free speech." Parking your butt at a funeral is by permission of the cemetery owner, or the sidewalk owner, or the road owner, depending where exactly you park your butt. Parking your truck is by permission of the parking lot owner.

So in a free society, the WBC people would be trespassing and could be evicted, unless they managed to get permission from a property owner near the funeral, in which case the relevant property owner can be boycotted or shunned by his neighbors.

But also in a free society, if the WBC had permission from the hotels to lodge there and park in the parking lot, they would be contractually obligated not to imprison them in their hotel rooms, confiscate their cars, etc. The ones who parked them in would be trespassing if they didn't have the hotel's permission, and if they did, the hotel would be in violation of its contract and liable for damages.

On the whole I'd say close, but no cigar on this one.

Well reasoned. I concur.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Rarick on May 17, 2011, 01:56:24 pm
Someone who travels hundreds or thousands of miles only to spew and provoke...for a political cause or otherwise.  Is in the process of starting something using "fighting words"  some places have "inciting" laws and other places do not.   These people are actors- being out of their neighborhood, yes like we are in Afpakia, and are taking a certain risk............
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: mutti on June 30, 2011, 03:51:36 pm
FBI utilizes Westboro to train Agents for domestic terrorism - why do I think being a fly on the wall in those sessions would have been interesting?

FBI Wanted to Learn of Domestic Terrorism From Westboro Church (http://www.christianpost.com/news/fbi-wanted-to-learn-of-domestic-terrorism-from-westboro-church-51715/)
Quote
The FBI confirmed Wednesay that members of the controversial Westboro Baptist Church were part of a training program for agents and police officials at two separate bureau facilities, a move that has now been abandoned.
Quote
Law enforcement officials who attended the session said it was focused on domestic terrorism. They were told that interacting with Westboro members they could observe extremists up close and understand what makes them tick.

Quote
The program was brought to halt when Thomas Browne, assistant director for the FBI, strongly objected to bringing the extremist group that pickets at military funerals to a military facility. Browne’s one-line-long memo discontinuing the training program read: The FBI is not to invite Westboro to any of its training sessions again, NPR reported.

Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Rarick on July 01, 2011, 05:49:17 am
Amazing how broad the domestic terrorism definition is, isn't it?   If I were a thinking person (?) in that group I would be considering the warning inherent in the FBI invitation...........

Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: freewoman on July 11, 2011, 07:13:30 pm
These folks are planning to stage a protest at the funeral of a local soldier killed in Afghanistan.  The commentary has been interesting.  Most are in favor of eliminating their right to free speech.  A few folks plan to surround the family of the dead soldier to form a barrier between them and the Westboro people.  The Westboro people want to do their protests in Florida because there's an attempt in this state to provide a 500-foot distance between protestors and soldiers' families during funerals.  The protestors feel that is unconstitutional. 

The Constitution demands that these folks be allowed their opportunity to express their views.  I agree that they should be allowed to show up if they'd like; I do hope the counter-protestors don't start a fight, which will just exacerbate the situation. 

One thing I can't figure out, though; besides the obvious fact that the Westboro people are getting lots of attention for their cause by protesting at soldiers' funerals, I really don't see any other point to it.  The dead soldiers were not gay, at least as far as I've been able to determine in reading articles on the protests.  There doesn't seem to be any evidence that these dead soldiers supported gays in the military.  Other than the media frenzy, it makes no sense for these protests to take place at funerals.  Gee, I wonder why they don't have a stream of protests in front of the Pentagon?  Or near the offices of the Congresscritters who voted to get rid of "don't ask, don't tell"?  If the Westboro "family" is so worried about the military's stance on gays, why don't they go to the source of the problem?

Here's the linky for the local story:  http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/jul/10/anti-gay-westboro-church-to-picket-st-lucie/
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Rarick on July 12, 2011, 07:24:02 am
People will interact, where most people would probably tolerate a dissenting voice from a neighbor or a lest "Local" county level, they probably would not respect the same from a stranger.   When the stranger comes across as virulent and hateful as this Baptist group, other more primal and harder to manager refelxes get triggered.  Hence my comments.   

I believe freedom of speech applies more to the attempt at effective communication, rather than the typical screeching like monkees I see in a lot of these protests.  I will make some effort to find out what the hominids are screeching about since we are the same species, but at some point a human being will walk away or take steps to protect himself from the savages...........
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: da gooch on July 13, 2011, 06:47:01 pm
People will interact, where most people would probably tolerate a dissenting voice from a neighbor or a lest "Local" county level, they probably would not respect the same from a stranger.   When the stranger comes across as virulent and hateful as this Baptist group, other more primal and harder to manager refelxes get triggered.  Hence my comments.   

I believe freedom of speech applies more to the attempt at effective communication, rather than the typical screeching like monkees I see in a lot of these protests.  I will make some effort to find out what the hominids are screeching about since we are the same species, but at some point a human being will walk away or take steps to protect himself from the savages...........
... or at very least insist upon the borders of their personal private space.

Just being helpful Rarick.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 14, 2011, 06:51:11 am
Takes money to be traveling around doing these "demonstrations." Wonder where they get it...  Don't those people have jobs and families? What is it they hope to accomplish, besides being self styled martyrs when someone gets a belly full of it and puts out their lights?

None of it makes any more sense than the suicide bombers or an awful lot of shit going on. The whole world has gone absolutely bonkers.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: Ailin on July 14, 2011, 10:06:56 am
They protest military funerals, as many as they can get to, because they believe that every soldier's death is a punishment from God for the acceptance of homosexuality in America, as well as other moral depravities in American culture.

The core of the Westborough Baptist Church is an extended family of lawyers, and they've made their living for decades off of the lawsuits they file against cities, states and anti-protestors.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: freewoman on July 15, 2011, 07:44:01 pm
I see the Westboro crowd as the fundamentalist Christian version of ACORN and their ilk.  Just traveling around, garnering media attention wherever they can. 
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: amagi on July 16, 2011, 11:57:01 am
If you think about it, their methods have been very, very effective.  After all, we have all heard of them and know what their cause is. Wasn't that the point?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist stymied in Brandon, MS
Post by: freewoman on July 30, 2011, 04:33:20 pm
Update on the fallen solder's funeral--the Westboro people didn't show up, several community groups were there to shield the family in case they did, and the solder received a fond farewell.  No comments from the Westboro staff were obtained to discover if they abstained from attending because of the groundswell of support for the soldier's family, or if there were other reasons why they didn't attend as they had said they would.  Might have gotten ugly if they did, and Port St. Lucie has been in the news too much lately!  (A local kid beat his parents to death with a hammer, and it was on the national news.)