The Mental Militia Forums

Special Interest => Guns and Gear => Topic started by: Bear2 on January 28, 2005, 12:23:07 am

Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bear2 on January 28, 2005, 12:23:07 am
Last night I went to the book store to get a copy of SWAT magazine to see
what's about. I didn't find SWAT, but I did find a special "Shooting" edition
which covered Ruger's line for 2005 (not just the new stuff).

Ruger has a pistol and carbine which are both chambered for the 10 mm
S&W round, and the idea of having a pistol and carbine that share the same
ammo goes back at least until the end of the 19th century.

What I thought was particularly cool about this combo, is that they share the same clips.
You can take the clip out of your pistol and use directly in the carbine, and visa-versa. You
can just load your clips and slap them into whatever is the most appropriate weapon of the
moment. Maybe I'm easily impressed, but I think this is a very cool idea.

The carbines: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAP...=famid&famid=20 (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=20)

The pistols: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults)

Bear
 
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bill St. Clair on January 28, 2005, 05:36:51 am
Not just a cool idea. Popular too. My Kel-Tec Sub 2000 (pictured at left, folded) uses Glock 22 (.40 S&W) mags. Beretta's Storm carbine uses the same mags as their pistols.
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: NuclearDruid on January 28, 2005, 08:57:55 am
I'm very pleased with my Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine.

ND
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: heretic on January 28, 2005, 10:32:45 am
At the ruger site, I see .40 cal and 9mm - you say it's available in 10mm?

Sounds interesting, I'd love to see the 10mm combo if you can find a link to it.
 
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bear2 on January 28, 2005, 11:15:12 am
Quote
Sounds interesting, I'd love to see the 10mm combo if you can find a link to it.

Being a gun novice I was a little confused, but I think the 10mm S&W is also the .40 cal S&W
by another name. The magazine article referred to the weapons both as 10mm. If you do the
math, 10mm comes out to .3937 caliber.

Bear
 
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bill St. Clair on January 28, 2005, 11:38:40 am
.40 S&W and 10mm use bullets of the same diameter, but the cartridges are different. Don't have a reloading book handy at the moment, but I believe that 10mm has a larger case and can push the same weight bullet faster than .40 S&W.
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bear2 on January 28, 2005, 01:30:25 pm
Ok, I'll go get the magazine and find the article which names the models
they were refering to.

Bear
 
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: tom on January 28, 2005, 06:41:27 pm
Several years ago some company built a .357 magnum pump rifle.  seemed like a cool idea...
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bill St. Clair on January 28, 2005, 08:46:29 pm
A few more examples. I have a Marlin 1984 Carbine in .44 magnum. It comes in .357 magnum as well. And .45 Colt is the old original rifle/revolver shared cartridge.

Of course you can get wierd about it too. BFR makes a .45-70 revolver. :)
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: rockchucker on January 28, 2005, 10:31:10 pm
Quote
Of course you can get wierd about it too. BFR makes a .45-70 revolver. :)
10mm Auto (http://reloadbench.com/popup/cart/339.html)
40 S&W (http://reloadbench.com/popup/cart/189.html)

Lots of cartridge specs (http://reloadbench.com/cartspec.html)

I've seen one o' them 45-70 pistols. What a monster!
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bill St. Clair on January 28, 2005, 11:06:51 pm
Great resource, Rockchucker. This page (http://reloadbench.com/gloss/pfactspec.html) shows differences in velocity for factory loads of various weights and makes obvious the fact that 10mm is a more powerful round than .40 S&W.

Use my Muzzle Energy Computer (http://billstclair.com/energy.html) to translate these weights and velocities into energy.
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on January 29, 2005, 12:15:33 am
*wondering who makes a 7.63x39 derringer*  :lol:  
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Ian on January 29, 2005, 03:10:31 pm
I though American Derringer made one in 7.62x39, but now I can't find one on their site. At any rate, they do exist - there's a guy on THR who has one:  :blink:

(http://www.imageseek.com/sven/2003_04_19/7.62x39_still.jpg)
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: ultralongrunner on January 30, 2005, 10:53:52 am
Quote


Ruger has a pistol and carbine which are both chambered for the 10 mm
S&W round, and the idea of having a pistol and carbine that share the same
ammo goes back at least until the end of the 19th century.

What I thought was particularly cool about this combo, is that they share the same clips.
You can take the clip out of your pistol and use directly in the carbine, and visa-versa. You
can just load your clips and slap them into whatever is the most appropriate weapon of the
moment. Maybe I'm easily impressed, but I think this is a very cool idea.

 
While a neat idea, I'm not sure that I agree.  

What you end up with is two relatively short range weapons.  Pistol cartridges coming out of carbines don't gain very much in comparison to say an SKS.  This is why so many police departments are going to AR-15/M-4 type weapons--10 mm at 200 fps more is still a pistol cartridge at 200 fps more, for the weight, you could have something that has a lot more range and punch.  

Your pistol should be used to get you to a rifle and then the real work can begin.  

ultralongrunner
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Desertrat on January 30, 2005, 11:46:15 am
Bill St. Clair:  It was the .44-40 (.44 WCF) that was chambered in the Win 92 and the Colt SAA.

SFAIK, no lever gun was chambered for .45 Colt until recently.

'Rat
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bill St. Clair on January 30, 2005, 04:29:28 pm
OK, 'Rat. Thanks for the correction.

-Bill
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Edge on January 30, 2005, 10:23:42 pm
Quote
While a neat idea, I'm not sure that I agree. 

What you end up with is two relatively short range weapons.  Pistol cartridges coming out of carbines don't gain very much in comparison to say an SKS.  This is why so many police departments are going to AR-15/M-4 type weapons--10 mm at 200 fps more is still a pistol cartridge at 200 fps more, for the weight, you could have something that has a lot more range and punch. 

Your pistol should be used to get you to a rifle and then the real work can begin. 

ultralongrunner
While I agree with your point, I think the difference between should and do is pretty significant. People should use a pistol to get them out to rifle range. Most people however, myself included, tend to practice at ranges they are confrortable with. So we get better and better at shorter and shorter ranges. (For the record: I make a point to get out of my comfort zone often) The result is that most who carry a pistol or who rely on it for home defense are nominally accurate to what, 5-10 yards? After that, who knows what is going to happen? Stick a pistol caliber carbine in that same person, and they become very accurate to 50-75 yards. And a lot quicker. My house is not all that big, but even my house has a few areas where a 30 foot shot could be required. While I'd just as well have a 223, I tend to like the pistol caliber carbines.
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bear2 on February 01, 2005, 10:57:38 am
I found the Shooting Times issue and double checked the info.

My mistake: the Ruger pistol/carbine combinations that share magazines are available
in .40 S&W and 9mm. I don't know where I got the idea that they are available in 10mm too.

The .40 S&W Ruger semi-auto carbine is the PC4. The PC9 is the 9mm version.

Bear
 
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on February 01, 2005, 11:58:03 am
I'm a hunter......and while I'll get lambasted over this, IMO for hunting "big game"....I consider both pistols and pistol caliber carbines to be a bow with a trigger......
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: TacticalMan on February 01, 2005, 01:03:57 pm
If I may be so bold as a new poster, I would like to share a couple thoughts on this issue.

If your sole concern is home defense, I have no problem with the idea of pistol calibers, but I am much more concerned with my neighborhood, city, county, state, and country.

I have chosen my arms based on availability of ammo in all situations, thus I have chosen my arms around NATO calibers. Since our military carries 9mm, .223 or 5.56 if you prefer, and .308, I have both semi-automatic rifles in .223 & 308. Scoped rifles in bolt action .223 & .308. and handguns in 9mm. I almost forgot my tactical shotgun in 12 ga.

As we are all limited to what we can reasonably carry, it makes a battlefield reload possible regardless of the enemies involved. :ph34r:  
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on February 01, 2005, 11:35:06 pm
Tactical Man,

You make a very interesting point, yet one must admit that if indeed one is going to reload using "captured" ammo, wouldn't make almost as much sense to "re-rifle" also using captured gear?
After all.....I'd be dipped in shit and rolled in cracker crumbs before I've leave a corpses M-14 laying on the ground and walk away bearing only my trusty SKS  :lol:  
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Desertrat on February 02, 2005, 11:10:39 am
For sure nuthin' wrong with practical choices, Tac.  

ZooT, I guess it's how far ya gotta walk.  Since I don't plan on getting too far from my house, I'll carry both. :D

'Rat

 
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: TacticalMan on February 02, 2005, 12:51:31 pm
Quote
Tactical Man,

You make a very interesting point, yet one must admit that if indeed one is going to reload using "captured" ammo, wouldn't make almost as much sense to "re-rifle" also using captured gear?
After all.....I'd be dipped in shit and rolled in cracker crumbs before I've leave a corpses M-14 laying on the ground and walk away bearing only my trusty SKS  :lol:
Good point!

 My point was based upon existing stock piles and the ability to serve with our military or law enforcement if invaded, or the ability to pick up what was needed along the way.

Your point also addresses the possible necessity of picking up what ever is available. If I was isolated and without NATO ammo, I too would use what was available regardless of the nation of origin.

Good thinking!
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: rick on February 07, 2005, 04:16:43 am
Don't forget the T/C Encore in .45-70. In a shoulder holster it gives a lasting impression - BEFORE you have to present it...
Title: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: user on May 21, 2005, 11:36:02 pm
I"m not lugging around a longarm that can't WAY outperfom my pistol.  If it's chambered for a pistol rd, it can't do that.  The AR-15 in 223, with a 1 lb .22lr conversion unit is by far the most versatile longarm extant.  The caliber conversion takes just  20 seconds. and the .22 kit's plastic case fits in the thigh pocket of your cammies.  The scoped  223 offers 2-3x the effective range of a 10mm carbine.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Rawles on February 19, 2007, 10:51:35 pm
I decided to reanimate this ancient thread, because I just posted the following to SurvivalBlog:  http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/02/letter_re_one_common_caliber_f.html

Your comments, folks?  Did I over state my case?  Did I miss any practical possibilities?

Thanks,

Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: velojym on February 19, 2007, 11:30:20 pm
Hmm... how about a .30-06 revolver?

By the way, I wasn't aware that anyone was manufacturing firearms which use clips anymore.
Unless I'm mistaken, most of the semiautos are using detachable magazines.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: da gooch on February 19, 2007, 11:59:28 pm
I decided to reanimate this ancient thread, because I just posted the following to SurvivalBlog:  http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/02/letter_re_one_common_caliber_f.html

Your comments, folks?  Did I over state my case?  Did I miss any practical possibilities?

Thanks,



 "Did I miss any practical possibilities?"

Not that I could see.
I used to harbor dreams of a "single cartridge" store pile until I realized that the two different arms NEED to be able to do different jobs. The compromise hurts Both jobs and only saves money on one level.
I have settled on 30-30 for long, 30 carb for short intense and 45 acp for up close and personal.
That said, I fully intend to "re-rifle" and "battlefield reload" in the event it comes to that.

[One of my Pet Peeves in movies about running gun battles is the "hero" that walks right over a "battlefield reload" and doesn't even appropriate even one clip from mr bad guy. Sheesh Hollywood grrr]

Tactical Man,

You make a very interesting point, yet one must admit that if indeed one is going to reload using "captured" ammo, wouldn't make almost as much sense to "re-rifle" also using captured gear?
After all.....I'd be dipped in shit and rolled in cracker crumbs before I've leave a corpses M-14 laying on the ground and walk away bearing only my trusty SKS  :lol: 

 
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Habu on February 20, 2007, 12:05:51 am
Realistically, I don't think you missed anything on the topic of a single carbine/handgun cartridge.  Given my 'druthers I might argue for retaining pistol-cartridge carbines just because they're so dang handy.  Lugging around an FAL in addition to a handgun while doing farm chores can get inconvenient; as the days and weeks go on people have a habit of working farther and farther from the rifle.  Being more convenient, a carbine might be closer to hand.

Even if that arguement is accepted, at best the carbines should probably be a 4th- or 5th-level purchase, after rifles/handguns/22s/shotguns.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: islandphish on February 20, 2007, 02:05:20 am
Here's an argumet I'm hearing.

"The Special Forces use them."

Just how true is that?
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: TANSTAAFL on February 20, 2007, 11:13:11 am
Nothing wrong with the convenience of interchageability

One issue worth mentioning is this:  A handgun can be very effective at well past 100, 200, even 300 yds with regular practice.

Last summer I fired a few thousand really hot (1900/2000fps) 357's through my 4 5/8" ruger blackhawk and at the end could consistently put 90% of my shots in a 9" circle at 250yds--

this year I bought a 5.5" redhawk (highly tuned) in 44---have only put 300 through it due to weather and have it dialed in consistently at 200yds---my guess is by the time I put another 2000 through it this spring I fully expect to be effective to at least 400 yds.

Give me a 357/44 carbine or rifle and within an hour I'll double the ranges of my handguns--say what you want about ballistics/stopping power but I'll tell you I would sure as hell not want to get hit with that 125 gr golden saber or 250gr hardcast keith at ANY range.

I am a big fan of big rifles that can reach out but when you spend your time in a territory where you are likely to be climbing as much as you are walking carryign a big rifle just sucks and can be outright dangerous when you are scooting up and down slopes with drop offs anywhere from 100 to over 1000 feet.

A handgun may not be a replacement for a rifle but with ENOUGH practice you'll quickly find that you can shoot better with a good revolver than 95% of the population can with a rifle.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: slidemansailor on February 20, 2007, 11:27:51 am
Nothing wrong with the convenience of interchageability

One issue worth mentioning is this: A handgun can be very effective at well past 100, 200, even 300 yds with regular practice.

Last summer I fired a few thousand really hot (1900/2000fps) 357's through my 4 5/8" ruger blackhawk and at the end could consistently put 90% of my shots in a 9" circle at 250yds--

this year I bought a 5.5" redhawk (highly tuned) in 44---have only put 300 through it due to weather and have it dialed in consistently at 200yds---my guess is by the time I put another 2000 through it this spring I fully expect to be effective to at least 400 yds.

Give me a 357/44 carbine or rifle and within an hour I'll double the ranges of my handguns--say what you want about ballistics/stopping power but I'll tell you I would sure as hell not want to get hit with that 125 gr golden saber or 250gr hardcast keith at ANY range.

I am a big fan of big rifles that can reach out but when you spend your time in a territory where you are likely to be climbing as much as you are walking carryign a big rifle just sucks and can be outright dangerous when you are scooting up and down slopes with drop offs anywhere from 100 to over 1000 feet.

A handgun may not be a replacement for a rifle but with ENOUGH practice you'll quickly find that you can shoot better with a good revolver than 95% of the population can with a rifle.


Your Ruger shoots better from your hands than most would shoot from a Ransome rest.  You and that handgun are a special case. 

For normal people with normal guns, handguns are good from 0-50 feet before accuracy and terminal energy become questionable.  Shotguns are an excellent choice from 10-100 feet, maybe a bit more depending on ammo selection.  Carbines in pistol calibers are good in the 25-100 yard range. In the real world for real people, rifles in rifle calibers are far and away the best choice beyond 100 feet and the only realistic choice beyond 100 yards.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Ire on February 20, 2007, 01:33:50 pm
The idea has some merit...

But I would rather spend half my money on a real rifle round and the other half on pistol rounds, then everything on pistol rounds.

I dont see the point in limiting yourself to the ballistics offered by a carbine when you could have a rifle, just for ammo compatibility. I really dont see a lot of situations where compatibility would offer enough to cut yourself down to the carbine level.

Now, personally I like the M-1 carbine- I dont have anything against them. They do have advantages. BUT I wouldnt recommend using a carbine over a rifle just because of ammo compatability. If you were going to use a carbine because it is lighter, or has lighter recoil or whatever, then by all means, do it.

Just dont use a carbine for the single point that your pistol uses that same ammo.

Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: TANSTAAFL on February 20, 2007, 01:46:16 pm
Nothing wrong with the convenience of interchageability

One issue worth mentioning is this: A handgun can be very effective at well past 100, 200, even 300 yds with regular practice.

Last summer I fired a few thousand really hot (1900/2000fps) 357's through my 4 5/8" ruger blackhawk and at the end could consistently put 90% of my shots in a 9" circle at 250yds--

this year I bought a 5.5" redhawk (highly tuned) in 44---have only put 300 through it due to weather and have it dialed in consistently at 200yds---my guess is by the time I put another 2000 through it this spring I fully expect to be effective to at least 400 yds.

Give me a 357/44 carbine or rifle and within an hour I'll double the ranges of my handguns--say what you want about ballistics/stopping power but I'll tell you I would sure as hell not want to get hit with that 125 gr golden saber or 250gr hardcast keith at ANY range.

I am a big fan of big rifles that can reach out but when you spend your time in a territory where you are likely to be climbing as much as you are walking carryign a big rifle just sucks and can be outright dangerous when you are scooting up and down slopes with drop offs anywhere from 100 to over 1000 feet.

A handgun may not be a replacement for a rifle but with ENOUGH practice you'll quickly find that you can shoot better with a good revolver than 95% of the population can with a rifle.


Your Ruger shoots better from your hands than most would shoot from a Ransome rest.  You and that handgun are a special case. 

For normal people with normal guns, handguns are good from 0-50 feet before accuracy and terminal energy become questionable.  Shotguns are an excellent choice from 10-100 feet, maybe a bit more depending on ammo selection.  Carbines in pistol calibers are good in the 25-100 yard range. In the real world for real people, rifles in rifle calibers are far and away the best choice beyond 100 feet and the only realistic choice beyond 100 yards.


I would have thought that too---except for the fact that in our tiny community i know and have seen 4 other people do the same or better with their own pistols....I am really starting to think that the really wide open spaces here (and the fact that 100 yds seems like nothing) have a lot to do with it since nothing is ever "close". And the constant practice.

What blows me aways is my 73 yr old friend who can push the tang site up on his 100+ yr old 45-70 and still hit a 5 gallon bucket at 1000. Antother neighbor took a really nice whitetail with his plain jane colt 1911 last fall at over 100 yds. One shot.

Who knows---maybe there is just a concentration of good shooters here--however having read some of Ed McGivern and Elmer Keiths works I know it's quite possible with the right amount of practice.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Rarick on February 20, 2007, 03:55:52 pm
A few more examples. I have a Marlin 1984 Carbine in .44 magnum. It comes in .357 magnum as well. And .45 Colt is the old original rifle/revolver shared cartridge.

Of course you can get wierd about it too. BFR makes a .45-70 revolver. :)

I found a 45-70 BFR at one of the ranges around my place.  The 45-70 revolver made my hands itch pretty badly, and the old wrists were sore for the next day or 2, definately a "training to fit the gun" issue.  I abandoned my Idea of a 45-70 set as far as rifle and revolver went.  A carbine, pistol set would be a good idea if you do not need a full power rifle cartridge (you are in the woods and not the long flats).  It extends your range and hitting power without having to practice intensively.  Since rounds are getting kind of short..........
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: David Brown on February 20, 2007, 05:36:08 pm
*
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: TANSTAAFL on February 21, 2007, 11:41:05 am
Nothing wrong with the convenience of interchageability

One issue worth mentioning is this: A handgun can be very effective at well past 100, 200, even 300 yds with regular practice.

Last summer I fired a few thousand really hot (1900/2000fps) 357's through my 4 5/8" ruger blackhawk and at the end could consistently put 90% of my shots in a 9" circle at 250yds--

this year I bought a 5.5" redhawk (highly tuned) in 44---have only put 300 through it due to weather and have it dialed in consistently at 200yds---my guess is by the time I put another 2000 through it this spring I fully expect to be effective to at least 400 yds.

Give me a 357/44 carbine or rifle and within an hour I'll double the ranges of my handguns--say what you want about ballistics/stopping power but I'll tell you I would sure as hell not want to get hit with that 125 gr golden saber or 250gr hardcast keith at ANY range.

I am a big fan of big rifles that can reach out but when you spend your time in a territory where you are likely to be climbing as much as you are walking carryign a big rifle just sucks and can be outright dangerous when you are scooting up and down slopes with drop offs anywhere from 100 to over 1000 feet.

A handgun may not be a replacement for a rifle but with ENOUGH practice you'll quickly find that you can shoot better with a good revolver than 95% of the population can with a rifle.


Your Ruger shoots better from your hands than most would shoot from a Ransome rest.  You and that handgun are a special case. 

For normal people with normal guns, handguns are good from 0-50 feet before accuracy and terminal energy become questionable.  Shotguns are an excellent choice from 10-100 feet, maybe a bit more depending on ammo selection.  Carbines in pistol calibers are good in the 25-100 yard range. In the real world for real people, rifles in rifle calibers are far and away the best choice beyond 100 feet and the only realistic choice beyond 100 yards.


I would have thought that too---except for the fact that in our tiny community i know and have seen 4 other people do the same or better with their own pistols....I am really starting to think that the really wide open spaces here (and the fact that 100 yds seems like nothing) have a lot to do with it since nothing is ever "close". And the constant practice.

What blows me aways is my 73 yr old friend who can push the tang site up on his 100+ yr old 45-70 and still hit a 5 gallon bucket at 1000. Antother neighbor took a really nice whitetail with his plain jane colt 1911 last fall at over 100 yds. One shot.

Who knows---maybe there is just a concentration of good shooters here--however having read some of Ed McGivern and Elmer Keiths works I know it's quite possible with the right amount of practice.

Wow, you have some amazing stories!!!  Man you've convinced me.  I'm selling ALL my rifles and just getting a handgun.   ^_^

I'd advise strongly against that.

As I said, It is possible to learn to shoot a pistol as effectively as a rifle out to a lot longer ranges than most people think--not everyone can and most cannot simply for lack of practice which is understandable----I am fortunate as my situation and location makes it possible to shoot and extended session at least once a week and often 3-4 times a week when weather and daylight permit and I still have a LOT of learning and improvement ahead
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: velojym on February 21, 2007, 03:22:17 pm
Sure, if you were Elmer Keith...
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: TANSTAAFL on February 21, 2007, 04:28:06 pm
Sure, if you were Elmer Keith...

With that attitude you certainly will not. Knowing you can do something is the first prerequisite---then comes training and practice.

believe what you want guys---I did not come to brag or argue--just to share some experiences and input that seemed worthwhile.

Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: velojym on February 21, 2007, 05:10:24 pm
Sure, if you were Elmer Keith...

With that attitude you certainly will not. Knowing you can do something is the first prerequisite---then comes training and practice.

believe what you want guys---I did not come to brag or argue--just to share some experiences and input that seemed worthwhile.



?

Please don't take yourself too seriously here. A sense of humor will get you a lot further than indignance.
I'm familiar with quite a few guys who shoot long-range pistol and have a great deal of respect for their ability.
I choose to use rifles for anything at those ranges, though I do try to work in a bit of 100yd pistol work when
I can.
There's also a bit of 'put up or shut up', which can be difficult to do at an online board, so folks who show up bragging
can easily be taken pretty lightly. You can take the civil route and get to know folks a bit better, or take the GK route.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: TANSTAAFL on February 21, 2007, 05:31:59 pm
Sure, if you were Elmer Keith...

With that attitude you certainly will not. Knowing you can do something is the first prerequisite---then comes training and practice.

believe what you want guys---I did not come to brag or argue--just to share some experiences and input that seemed worthwhile.



?

Please don't take yourself too seriously here. A sense of humor will get you a lot further than indignance.
I'm familiar with quite a few guys who shoot long-range pistol and have a great deal of respect for their ability.
I choose to use rifles for anything at those ranges, though I do try to work in a bit of 100yd pistol work when
I can.
There's also a bit of 'put up or shut up', which can be difficult to do at an online board, so folks who show up bragging
can easily be taken pretty lightly. You can take the civil route and get to know folks a bit better, or take the GK route.


I agree--and you are right---been one of those days.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: velojym on February 21, 2007, 05:48:56 pm
S'alright. Happened to me a time or three.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: islandphish on February 22, 2007, 01:14:44 pm
I got to hold a PS-90 yesterday.  Holy moly that thing is cool.  I've recently been having this discussion and I think there are a lot of reasons to NOT have a carbine and pistol.  Most notably that carbines are kinda wussy.  But if you were not looking at getting them for a survival setting the PS90 and Five-seveN would be a sweet setup. 

Really high ammo capacity.  Ultra concealable.

pretty cool stuff.

For Katrina this would rock.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bear on February 27, 2007, 10:05:58 pm
Quote
I to subscribe to the old idea of a handgun and carbine in the same caliber. For me it is the .357 mag, because I like the .357mag, and can also shoot .38 specials if the need should arise. I have the Marlin 1894C carbine and the Ruger GP100. Works well for me.

m.d. creekmore,

I have a Marlin 1894C on order. Should be arriving March 6th or so. I've been wondering what kind of revolver
to choose to go along with it. What do you think of the GP100?

Bear
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Tahn L. on February 27, 2007, 10:20:09 pm
I am not a great shot in my county but I can pretty regularly, hit a (privately owned) realtors sign at 100 yards with a 6" .45 revolver.

 I believe that J.E.B. Stuart was killed by a shot from a .44 cal at 300 yards. The shootist was a trained Sharps shooter, but used a pistol.

Elmer Kieth could shoot you flat dead at 400 yards with a .44 special 4" revolver. Fact. People that saw him shoot were asked if they would let him take 1 shot with his pistol at 1000 yards at them for $10,000.. Non accepted.

I believe that a Thompson Contender pistol in .223 with an auto range scope, worn in a shoulder holster, would be fine if the world goes to hell. It would make a fine rifle.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: kel on February 27, 2007, 10:58:56 pm
The gp100 is a great gun. Nearly as strong as the famed Blackhawk, and with double action and speed loaders. Spend the 50-100 frn on a good trigger job and it will be nearly equqal to a s&w, and take a lot more abuse. Long range shooting is a matterof the right loads and lots of practice. If there is a NRA or IHMSA silhouette club in your area, I highly reccomend hooking up with them for great handgun practice. Some of these old guys use a 200gr cast bullet, loaded hot in a .38 case, in their .357 revolvers to knock over the 49.5 lb targets at 200m. The same bullet in a .357 case is too long in most guns.  I have seen some .44 240 gr hp rounds that would just leave a mark on the same targets. They don't count unless they fall.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: enemyofthestate on February 28, 2007, 10:34:22 am
I have a Marlin 1894C on order. Should be arriving March 6th or so. I've been wondering what kind of revolver
to choose to go along with it. What do you think of the GP100?
GP-100 is very good revolver.   Strong as all get out.  I replaced the stock grips with a Hogue monogrip making it quite about more comfortable for me to shoot.  The stock trigger could stand some work but it's not too bad overall.  The action is simple and easy to maintain.  It's roughly the same size as a S&W 686 (K-frame ?) so if you have small hands or short fingers it may be too large.

HK speedloaders are $8.35 each from http://www.pistoleer.com/hks/revolver/
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Bear on February 28, 2007, 10:58:23 am
Quote
The stock trigger could stand some work but it's not too bad overall.  The action is simple and easy to maintain.  It's roughly the same size as a S&W 686 (K-frame ?) so if you have small hands or short fingers it may be too large.

I have large hands. I was wondering if the grips would be big enough. Are there any custom grips
that make the grip area longer?

Bear
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: enemyofthestate on February 28, 2007, 10:31:20 pm
Quote
The stock trigger could stand some work but it's not too bad overall.  The action is simple and easy to maintain.  It's roughly the same size as a S&W 686 (K-frame ?) so if you have small hands or short fingers it may be too large.

I have large hands. I was wondering if the grips would be big enough. Are there any custom grips
that make the grip area longer?

Dunno.  Pachmayr maybe?  They tend to be larger than Hogue for the same gun.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: Rarick on January 09, 2018, 10:07:02 pm
A few more examples. I have a Marlin 1984 Carbine in .44 magnum. It comes in .357 magnum as well. And .45 Colt is the old original rifle/revolver shared cartridge.

Of course you can get wierd about it too. BFR makes a .45-70 revolver. :)

I found a 45-70 BFR at one of the ranges around my place.  The 45-70 revolver made my hands itch pretty badly, and the old wrists were sore for the next day or 2, definately a "training to fit the gun" issue.  I abandoned my Idea of a 45-70 set as far as rifle and revolver went.  A carbine, pistol set would be a good idea if you do not need a full power rifle cartridge (you are in the woods and not the long flats).  It extends your range and hitting power without having to practice intensively.  Since rounds are getting kind of short..........

For the youtoobe mongers, yes it is 10 years old, but  well..... it relates......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RFD1_ESbpM
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: securitysix on January 10, 2018, 05:03:49 pm
Funny that you resurrect this thread now.  My head has been stuck on the semi-auto side of this for a while. 

My dad picked up a Sub2000 shortly before they released the 2nd generation of them and a Glock 17 to go with it (I don't recall if it's a Gen 3 or 4, but the 5 weren't out yet).

Neither of us care for the Glock, but the Sub2000 is pretty neat.  Just one problem:  It spits in your face if you're left-handed (I had a similar problem with the full auto Mac-10 I got to shoot years ago).

The Gen 2 Sub2000 has an adjustable stock, and the adjustment might push it forward far enough to keep it from spitting in your face, but I don't know, none of the videos I've found on the Gen 2 Sub2000s say, and I'm too cheap to buy one just to find out.

I really like the idea of a 9mm carbine that folds up small enough to fit in a backpack and takes the same mags as my pistol (I'd go M&P rather than Glock, even though there are no 33 round M&P mags that I'm aware of).  I'm not fond of having my gun spit in my face every time I pull the trigger.

Also, Hi-Point is now making their carbine in 10mm, which makes my sticker peck out a little, despite the proprietary mags.
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on February 17, 2018, 01:42:58 am
I have a pair of the ugly but useful hi-point 995 carbines and a dozen mags for them.
They complement my browning high power, my ruger model 95 and the other 9mm pistols I have.
They're NOT my main go to gun, BUT they're great for the smaller shooters in my clan, and a lot of fun in the meantime
Title: Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
Post by: MamaLiberty on February 17, 2018, 05:18:37 am
Reminds me I need to take the Hi-Point 9mm carbine to the range... just as soon as the snow melts and the mud dries at least a little. End of March, probably, at best. :) I can use the same ammunition between the carbine and the XD I carry, but of course they don't share a magazine type. I have plenty of magazines for both, however.