The Mental Militia Forums

Special Interest => Home Schooling => Topic started by: debeez on February 04, 2005, 08:37:46 am

Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: debeez on February 04, 2005, 08:37:46 am
Parents/Torturers on the lam (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/family.torture/index.html)

This just plain sucks.

I hope that 1) these people have a special place in hell waiting for them, and B) they get to report there real soon.

What the article didn't mention, but what I wonder, is what starvation does to the developing brain...are these kids going to end up mentally retarded due to lack of sustenance?  Does anyone know the answer to this?
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Claire on February 04, 2005, 09:44:51 am
Amen to that special place in hell, debeez.

I also couldn't help but notice that this article says these monsters were the legal guardians of the children, but carefully fails to mention who put the children into their care.

Another case of foster-care gone awry, with none of the watchdogs actually watching? Can't tell. Funny, though, that it was important to the reporter to mention home schooling, but not to mention who had the ultimate authority for putting those children into harm's way and failing to guard them.

Claire
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: debeez on February 04, 2005, 10:00:59 am
Quote
but not to mention who had the ultimate authority for putting those children into harm's way and failing to guard them

What?  You question the great nanny state's decision in choosing caregivers for the children?  Heresy!

Besides, isn't it so much easier to categorize these monsters into a nice, neat little package?  

NORMAL people send their children to government education cam....errr, I mean good, clean public schools.

NORMAL people don't homeschool AND they NEVER abuse their children.  And if they did abuse their children, well, obviously, that is one of the great public services that our nation's free education system provides, a way to keep an eye out for the innocents.

Which reminds me of an acquaintance of mine...she went to school, got her Bachelor's, and gets a whopping $9 an hour as a social worker.  I make nearly twice what she does, and with nuthin' more than an Associate's degree.  No friggin' wonder DFS didn't catch this.  These people are underpaid, understaffed, and have HUGE caseloads.

This is one area in which I am quite torn.  Do we agree to pay more taxes so that we can have more social services?  If not, then how do we protect innocent children?  And on the other side of the coin, having DFS in your face can be a nightmare, especially when they come after you for spanking your child, NOT abuse.  

Any one have any ideas/solutions?
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: UnstructuredAgain on February 04, 2005, 10:05:02 am
Listen to a group of public school teachers talk about it and you'd think the homeless were teaching the kids.
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: NuclearDruid on February 04, 2005, 10:36:03 am
HS'rs are at least an inconvience and at most a threat to their status quo. Here's an article from yesterday's Rockford (IL) Registar-Star.

Home school background almost pins state champion Walk (http://www.rrstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050203/SPORTS0107/502030305/1001/SPORTS)

Quote
STILLMAN VALLEY -- Caleb Walk could be called many things.


State champion.


Honor student.


Christian.


Star musician.


Charitable giver.


Oh, yeah, one more: "irritant."


The last description doesn't seem to fit with the others. Until you realize Caleb Walk, defending Class A 112-pound state wrestling champ, has been home-schooled his entire life.


"Home-school athletes are, at some level, an irritant to our public schools," said Marty Hickman, the executive director of the Illinois High School Association.


Schools, and their sports teams, seem insulted by home-schoolers.


"The prevalent attitude," Hickman said, "is we have quality programs here. Your son or daughter are welcome, but if they want to take part in sports, they are required to attend. It's a fundamental principle: It's not a community team. It's for students who attend the school."

Pretty much says it all.

ND
 
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Pitchfork on February 04, 2005, 11:24:50 am
Well......

Here's a case where I agree with the Marine General.  
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Claire on February 04, 2005, 11:52:34 am
Quote
This is one area in which I am quite torn.  Do we agree to pay more taxes so that we can have more social services?  If not, then how do we protect innocent children?
Nope, we don't pay more taxes. And even if we were the taxpayin' kind, throwing more money into social services wouldn't do any better job protecting the children. In fact, throwing tax money around is a prime cause of problems like this horrific example.

How many children end up in foster care (or otherwise in pitiable circumstances) because some form of tax-funded state intervention screwed up their family? Hey, "Ms. Inner-City Teenager, you don't have to behave responsibly, 'cause we'll pay for that kid no matter what you do." "Hey, Mr. Father, you're redundant anyway, so how 'bout we just pitch you in prison for selling dope or owning a gun?" You can probably think of other examples.

Without a doubt, some kids will always be abused and misused. And I ache for them. I've been thinking about the poor kids from your news story all morning (and tend to agree with Pitchfork about that idiot Marine general suddenly looking like he might have a good idea). But rather than use tax money to create bigger bureaucracies and more snoops (who will abuse parents for such forms of "abuse" as homeschooling, failure to vaccinate, etc.), how 'bout we start moving back to a culture in which family members and neighbors -- fathers and mothers and other folk alike -- are home often enough to be aware of what's going on around them, in which social service is initiated and performed by those closest to the communities, in which people have enough resources to take care of their own, in which personal responsibility is a watchword, etc.?

My $.02

Claire
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: debeez on February 04, 2005, 12:06:37 pm
Quote
how 'bout we start moving back to a culture in which family members and neighbors -- fathers and mothers and other folk alike -- are home often enough to be aware of what's going on around them, in which social service is initiated and performed by those closest to the communities, in which people have enough resources to take care of their own, in which personal responsibility is a watchword, etc.?

Well, damn.

All I can say to that is AMEN!
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: David on February 04, 2005, 12:47:12 pm
Odd bit of history,
Remember the Philadelphia police assault on the MOVE organization's home started as a dispute over home schooling
 
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Claire on February 04, 2005, 01:03:16 pm
Quote
Odd bit of history,
Remember the Philadelphia police assault on the MOVE organization's home started as a dispute over home schooling
Was it? Ohmy. I had remembered it being about something even more trivial -- violations of noise ordinances.

I just did a search on MOVE and found this long account (http://www.angelfire.com/ga/dregeye/move.html). It's highly partisan and contains one hysterical blooper about the Third Amendment guaranteeing the right to bear arms. But interesting. Seems that the Africa family's real crime was general gleeful defiance of the public order, including some pretty Erisian chaos tactics -- and refusal to register their kids with the government. No doubt they wouldn't hand their kids over to the schools, either. Now, off to read more.

Thanks for bringing it up. Perfect example of "I'm from the government and I'm here for the sake of the children."
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Docliberty on February 04, 2005, 07:39:42 pm
Quote
What the article didn't mention, but what I wonder, is what starvation does to the developing brain...are these kids going to end up mentally retarded due to lack of sustenance? Does anyone know the answer to this?

This kind of starvation during developmentwill definately affect the child.  How and how much will be seen as the child recovers and continues to develop.  Each case is different.
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on February 04, 2005, 11:55:48 pm
I didn't read the article,  only had it up long enough to determine that it was the same situation I'd heard about on the 11 o'clock news -- a 16-YO that weighed 60 lbs! -- but I _did_ hear that they'd nabbed that couple.

In Utah!

Here's hoping that their fellow inmates hear about what they did,  in detail.
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: conspiracynut on February 05, 2005, 12:59:47 am
Speaking of Utah, Senate Bill 59: Homeschool Freedom Bill (http://hslda.org/Legislation/State/ut/2005/UTSB59/default.asp) has been proposed by Mark Madsen - he seems to be one to watch! He is also proposing a bill that allows non-licensed people to carry their guns loaded in their cars. Currently only those with concealed carry are allowed to do this. News Artcile on Gun in Car bill. (http://archive.harktheherald.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/prv/archive/2005/February/03/LocalCity/59997.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=gun§ionSearch=&begindate=2%2F3%2F2005&enddate=2%2F4%2F2005&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=1&IncludeImages=1&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Heraldextra.com%0A%09%09%09)
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: motherbatherick on February 05, 2005, 02:51:33 am
Quote
"There are good home-school programs that kids are thriving in. The problem is verifying which ones are good and which ones are suspect. You don't want some measly on-line course where you pay and you get credit. You don't want to create a situation where a kid can subvert the system."
Yeah, God forbid such a wonderful, caring system as this should be subverted. <_<  
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on February 05, 2005, 03:35:39 pm
Quote
Here's hoping that their fellow inmates hear about what they did,  in detail.
For the life of me I can never understand this sentiment coming from the "mouth" of an otherwise rational person.
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Desertrat on February 05, 2005, 07:17:27 pm
Ragnar, I imagine it's due to what most see as insufficient punishment under prevailing law.  So, if the law doesn't mete out appropriate punishment, maybe outlaws will.

Proper nutrition during the first three or four years is an extremely important factor in maxmizing intellectual capapbilities.  It continues to be important onward in time, of course, but the first few years are critical.

Even good-hearted parents can err in this matter.  They think that because a kid is fat and sassy, all's well--even if it's mostly from carbo from junk food.

This must be coupled with intellectual stimulation.  The alphabet blocks, reading to the little folks early on...Interactions with other children and with adults, as opposed to using the TV as a baby-sitter.  And never forget the importance of hugging and cuddling--a known major factor in avoiding autism.  (This latter is part of why nurses hug preemies.)

I've often wondered if this isn't causal to the problems described in "The Bell Curve".  The mix of poor diet and lack of intellectual stimulation is most common in the lower economic groups, and the relative demographic percentages surely affect the overall averages.  Genetics might not be all that much of a factor.

'Rat

 
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on February 05, 2005, 11:18:46 pm
Quote
Speaking of Utah, Senate Bill 59: Homeschool Freedom Bill (http://hslda.org/Legislation/State/ut/2005/UTSB59/default.asp) has been proposed by Mark Madsen - he seems to be one to watch! He is also proposing a bill that allows non-licensed people to carry their guns loaded in their cars. Currently only those with concealed carry are allowed to do this. News Artcile on Gun in Car bill. (http://archive.harktheherald.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/prv/archive/2005/February/03/LocalCity/59997.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=gun§ionSearch=&begindate=2%2F3%2F2005&enddate=2%2F4%2F2005&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=1&IncludeImages=1&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Heraldextra.com%0A%09%09%09)
The only problem I see with the stuff the article mentions about that homeschooling bill is that bit about "the same length of time" needs to be spent.  Why should it be,  if you can do the job in less time,  which is something that I would expect with home schooling?

I wonder if that gun thing specifies a permit from that state or not?  Nice to see things moving in that direction,  anyhow...
Title: Great--Homeschoolers in the news
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on February 05, 2005, 11:23:38 pm
Quote
 
Quote
Ragnar, I imagine it's due to what most see as insufficient punishment under prevailing law.  So, if the law doesn't mete out appropriate punishment, maybe outlaws will.

Indeed.  Kids are the most defenseless people,  and anybody who *tortures* kids...   One bit that stands out in my memory from the brief bit of what I caught on the news as I was going by was something about one of those kids having toenails pulled out with a pair of pliers!  What's the law going to do to compare with that?

Quote
This must be coupled with intellectual stimulation.  The alphabet blocks, reading to the little folks early on...Interactions with other children and with adults, as opposed to using the TV as a baby-sitter.  And never forget the importance of hugging and cuddling--a known major factor in avoiding autism.  (This latter is part of why nurses hug preemies.)

Yep.  That's why I try to pay as much attention as I can consistent with getting things done to those grandkids of mine.  And trying to counteract the TV is another issue,  the parents in this case are tv junkies,  it's on *all the time*,  but what can ya do?  I aim to see in coming months...

Quote
I've often wondered if this isn't causal to the problems described in "The Bell Curve".  The mix of poor diet and lack of intellectual stimulation is most common in the lower economic groups, and the relative demographic percentages surely affect the overall averages.  Genetics might not be all that much of a factor.

I thnk it's something of a factor,  but not as much as some people like to use it as an excuse for.