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Special Interest => Guns and Gear => Topic started by: knobster on October 23, 2013, 07:16:09 am

Title: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on October 23, 2013, 07:16:09 am
Greetings all.  I recently started up my new hobby of bullet casting and per usual, the more I do, the more I need to learn.  Currently I using lead wheel weights that are 95.5% lead, 4% antimony and 0.5% tin.  I've read that adding a bit more tin will make for harder bullets and thus reduce leading of the barrel when shooting said bullets.

My question: What are some good (ie, cheap) sources of tin?  Most of the solder my dad has for connecting copper pipes is an alloy of tin, silver and antimony but I'm not sure what the ratios are.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Docliberty on October 23, 2013, 07:33:10 am
According to Rotometals website:

Quote
Basic Rules for Harding Lead-

For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell  =  8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony  )

You can find their website here:http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm (http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm)

They sell both Antimony and Tin
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on October 23, 2013, 09:51:37 am
Cool site!  Any idea on % increase due to water quenching?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Docliberty on October 23, 2013, 10:01:49 am
Try this site http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm (http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm)
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on October 23, 2013, 11:18:10 am
Try this site http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm (http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm)

Hmm... from this site:

Quote
Lead conducts heat slowly and contrary to the belief of some, lead does not melt from the base of plain base bullets when fired causing leading. If it could why donít paper and plastic wads burn in shotgun shells? The millisecond the bullet is subjected to this heat simply could not melt lead. Pressure forcing the bullet against the sides of the bore could and far more likely than this is a lack of obturation (bullet too hard) allowing gas leakage down the sides of the bullet. This has the same effect as an acetylene torch cutting steel and leading would begin on the trailing edge of the rifling.

So is this telling me that gas checks are not necessary?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: securitysix on October 23, 2013, 01:19:17 pm
Try this site http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm (http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm)

Hmm... from this site:

Quote
Lead conducts heat slowly and contrary to the belief of some, lead does not melt from the base of plain base bullets when fired causing leading. If it could why donít paper and plastic wads burn in shotgun shells? The millisecond the bullet is subjected to this heat simply could not melt lead. Pressure forcing the bullet against the sides of the bore could and far more likely than this is a lack of obturation (bullet too hard) allowing gas leakage down the sides of the bullet. This has the same effect as an acetylene torch cutting steel and leading would begin on the trailing edge of the rifling.

So is this telling me that gas checks are not necessary?

Depends on how hard you're going to push the bullet.  At most pistol velocities, gas checks aren't necessary.  At the very upper end of pistol velocities (full power .357, .41 and .44 magnum levels, for example), you might gain some benefit from gas checks.  At rifle velocities, they're still a good idea, and even then, at lower velocities (trap door .45-70 loads), you can probably get away without them.

Gas checks will still prevent gas cutting if you're using really hard bullets.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on October 23, 2013, 05:13:07 pm
Well let's see:

180gr RN bullet for a 30-06 Spr.  Plan on using Varget, velocity around 1700-2400
150gr FN bullet for a 30-30 Win.  Plan on using IMR-4227, velocity around 1600-1900
220gr RN bullet for a 338 Win Mag.  Plan on using IMR-4227, velocity around 1650-2000

The rest of my bullets are handgun so velocities won't be outrageous.

I'm looking into casting for my AR-15 but that's a whole 'nother research project.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on October 23, 2013, 10:58:08 pm
Adding bismuth reduces the amount of shrinkage, and adding too much will make the solid state lead alloy bigger than the liquid state. Lead has a relatively low melting point, but bismuth will lower it further. I have seen weights cast in a wooden mold which were made of lead-bismuth alloy. Bismuth also makes lead harder. Lead and bismuth are often used in bronze casting, hence my interest in them. Lead makes bronze more malleable so that it can be forged after the casting process produces a blank.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Bear on October 24, 2013, 01:34:48 am
Adding bismuth reduces the amount of shrinkage, and adding too much will make the solid state lead alloy bigger than the liquid state. Lead has a relatively low melting point, but bismuth will lower it further. I have seen weights cast in a wooden mold which were made of lead-bismuth alloy. Bismuth also makes lead harder. Lead and bismuth are often used in bronze casting, hence my interest in them. Lead makes bronze more malleable so that it can be forged after the casting process produces a blank.

Very cool. I didn't know that.

Bear
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Rarick on October 24, 2013, 08:47:15 am
No melting down toy soldier for bullets anymore.........the alloy is wrong.  Given lead poisoning laws in the industrial nations all those figurines are pewter.......

Pewter bullets?  Are they even functional aside from the thrown rock impact that is.  Would pewter make a good hollowpoint?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Docliberty on October 24, 2013, 09:32:44 am
No melting down toy soldier for bullets anymore.........the alloy is wrong.  Given lead poisoning laws in the industrial nations all those figurines are pewter.......

Pewter bullets?  Are they even functional aside from the thrown rock impact that is.  Would pewter make a good hollowpoint?

You can make a bullet out of anything, wood, nylon, gold, depleted uranium, etc.  Some work better than others and some are good for very specific purposes.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: securitysix on October 24, 2013, 11:04:34 am
Well let's see:

180gr RN bullet for a 30-06 Spr.  Plan on using Varget, velocity around 1700-2400
150gr FN bullet for a 30-30 Win.  Plan on using IMR-4227, velocity around 1600-1900
220gr RN bullet for a 338 Win Mag.  Plan on using IMR-4227, velocity around 1650-2000

The rest of my bullets are handgun so velocities won't be outrageous.

I'm looking into casting for my AR-15 but that's a whole 'nother research project.

At the lower end of those velocity ranges, you might be able to get away with not using a gas check.  You'd have to try it and check leading levels after a few shots.  At the upper end of those velocity ranges, a gas check is definitely a good idea.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on October 24, 2013, 11:10:40 am
You can make a bullet out of anything, wood, nylon, gold, depleted uranium, etc.  Some work better than others and some are good for very specific purposes.

Wood or nylon eh?  Great, now I have more topics to dig into.  Sigh... workload never lets up.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on October 24, 2013, 06:49:59 pm
No melting down toy soldier for bullets anymore.........the alloy is wrong.  Given lead poisoning laws in the industrial nations all those figurines are pewter.......

Pewter bullets?  Are they even functional aside from the thrown rock impact that is.  Would pewter make a good hollowpoint?

Pewter is some hard shtuff. It's 95-98% tin if you're talking Britannia Alloy (food-safe pewter) as opposed to the leaded pewter. I have only heard of the leaded alloy, I've never seen it for sale. I doubt it would expand much and it's pretty light weight so it won't maintain lethal velocity. I have a small supply of scrap pewter that weighs less than a lb total. I threw one piece of it across the garage with the only result being my ears hurting from the clattering ping sound.

If you're going to use pewter in an alloy, I know it is often used in bronze as a tin source by backyard smiths. It gives the bronze hardness as copper alone is not good at retaining its shape with heavy use.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: securitysix on October 25, 2013, 11:20:19 am
No melting down toy soldier for bullets anymore.........the alloy is wrong.  Given lead poisoning laws in the industrial nations all those figurines are pewter.......

Pewter bullets?  Are they even functional aside from the thrown rock impact that is.  Would pewter make a good hollowpoint?

Pewter is some hard shtuff. It's 95-98% tin if you're talking Britannia Alloy (food-safe pewter) as opposed to the leaded pewter. I have only heard of the leaded alloy, I've never seen it for sale. I doubt it would expand much and it's pretty light weight so it won't maintain lethal velocity. I have a small supply of scrap pewter that weighs less than a lb total. I threw one piece of it across the garage with the only result being my ears hurting from the clattering ping sound.

If you're going to use pewter in an alloy, I know it is often used in bronze as a tin source by backyard smiths. It gives the bronze hardness as copper alone is not good at retaining its shape with heavy use.

Given that pewter is mostly tin and tin is often alloyed with lead to harden bullets, I suppose the questions would be "what else is in pewter?" and "how much pewter would one add to their lead to get the right alloy for their bullets?".
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on October 25, 2013, 08:27:34 pm
No melting down toy soldier for bullets anymore.........the alloy is wrong.  Given lead poisoning laws in the industrial nations all those figurines are pewter.......

Pewter bullets?  Are they even functional aside from the thrown rock impact that is.  Would pewter make a good hollowpoint?

Pewter is some hard shtuff. It's 95-98% tin if you're talking Britannia Alloy (food-safe pewter) as opposed to the leaded pewter. I have only heard of the leaded alloy, I've never seen it for sale. I doubt it would expand much and it's pretty light weight so it won't maintain lethal velocity. I have a small supply of scrap pewter that weighs less than a lb total. I threw one piece of it across the garage with the only result being my ears hurting from the clattering ping sound.

If you're going to use pewter in an alloy, I know it is often used in bronze as a tin source by backyard smiths. It gives the bronze hardness as copper alone is not good at retaining its shape with heavy use.

Given that pewter is mostly tin and tin is often alloyed with lead to harden bullets, I suppose the questions would be "what else is in pewter?" and "how much pewter would one add to their lead to get the right alloy for their bullets?".

The rest is Antimony and Copper. The Tin content varies from 92-98% with mostly Antimony making up the remainder.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Lonewolf72 on December 05, 2013, 08:55:55 pm
I cast my own roundballs for my muzzleloaders, and also 12 ga. slugs, out of wheel weights. They work fine for me. But, how do you tell the difference between the zinc weights and the lead ones?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on December 06, 2013, 06:54:45 am
I cast my own roundballs for my muzzleloaders, and also 12 ga. slugs, out of wheel weights. They work fine for me. But, how do you tell the difference between the zinc weights and the lead ones?

Look for the 'Zn' marking.  Or take a tin snips to the wheel weight.  If you can start to make a cut, it's lead.  You can also do the 'tap on the ground' test.  It's hard to describe the sound - lead sounds dull, zinc, not so much.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on January 04, 2014, 08:53:34 am
Ugh.  Did some searches on ebay for tin ingots.  Stuff is $10 a pound!!  Granted one only needs 5-10% of tin for casting but still...

Think I'll concentrate on flea markets for pewter.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Bear on January 04, 2014, 11:13:10 am
I cast my own roundballs for my muzzleloaders, and also 12 ga. slugs, out of wheel weights. They work fine for me. But, how do you tell the difference between the zinc weights and the lead ones?

Look for the 'Zn' marking.  Or take a tin snips to the wheel weight.  If you can start to make a cut, it's lead.  You can also do the 'tap on the ground' test.  It's hard to describe the sound - lead sounds dull, zinc, not so much.

The harder the metal, the more it will ring, and the higher the pitch will be.

Bear
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: heyoka on January 04, 2014, 02:45:06 pm
Old solder is often surplussed out. Electronics grade will usually be 63% lead and 37% tin, way more tin than necessary for bullet alloy. Companies trying to get RoHS compliant (pronounced row hoss in geek speak), will be glad to get rid of it.  The flux in it will help raise the dross. If you run into a company changing over a wave solder machine, you'll hit the jackpot.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on January 05, 2014, 07:04:42 am
Old solder is often surplussed out. Electronics grade will usually be 63% lead and 37% tin, way more tin than necessary for bullet alloy. Companies trying to get RoHS compliant (pronounced row hoss in geek speak), will be glad to get rid of it.  The flux in it will help raise the dross. If you run into a company changing over a wave solder machine, you'll hit the jackpot.

Hmm... I'll keep my eyes and ears open.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on January 06, 2014, 02:58:31 am
Try not to end up with radioactive stuff. Metals from the former USSR have been found to contain Strontium 90 among other assorted nasties. This is because several deactivated reactors have been hit my metal thieves who sell the scrap to scrap yards without telling them where it came from. So that cheap ebay deal on sheets of Russian lead? Don't risk it. I stumbled across this info while researching bioremediation of radioactive wastes. Lead can be radioactive if it is a byproduct of fission. And this stuff is usually stored by burying it. It's also possible for it to be contaminated with particulate which ends up in any scrap lot it gets melted into. If you have stock of metals from there already, I suggest getting the Geiger counter out of your BOB and making sure you don't have a hot batch sitting in your workspace.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on January 06, 2014, 06:45:17 am
Try not to end up with radioactive stuff. Metals from the former USSR have been found to contain Strontium 90 among other assorted nasties. This is because several deactivated reactors have been hit my metal thieves who sell the scrap to scrap yards without telling them where it came from. So that cheap ebay deal on sheets of Russian lead? Don't risk it. I stumbled across this info while researching bioremediation of radioactive wastes. Lead can be radioactive if it is a byproduct of fission. And this stuff is usually stored by burying it. It's also possible for it to be contaminated with particulate which ends up in any scrap lot it gets melted into. If you have stock of metals from there already, I suggest getting the Geiger counter out of your BOB and making sure you don't have a hot batch sitting in your workspace.

Yikes.  Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: FDD on January 06, 2014, 05:51:03 pm
Try not to end up with radioactive stuff. Metals from the former USSR have been found to contain Strontium 90 among other assorted nasties. This is because several deactivated reactors have been hit my metal thieves who sell the scrap to scrap yards without telling them where it came from. So that cheap ebay deal on sheets of Russian lead? Don't risk it. I stumbled across this info while researching bioremediation of radioactive wastes. Lead can be radioactive if it is a byproduct of fission. And this stuff is usually stored by burying it. It's also possible for it to be contaminated with particulate which ends up in any scrap lot it gets melted into. If you have stock of metals from there already, I suggest getting the Geiger counter out of your BOB and making sure you don't have a hot batch sitting in your workspace.

Yikes.  Thanks for the info.

But think of the type of bullets it would make?
Just right for some JBT turd.

just saying
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on January 07, 2014, 01:41:43 am
But think of the type of bullets it would make?
Just right for some JBT turd.

just saying

If you aim well, it would be irrelevant to your target, but roughly equivalent to pulling the pin on a MkII Pineapple and sticking it in your pocket. You could hurt your opponent, but are more likely to just kill yourself by handling the stuff or carrying it around. If you failed to recover it and it contains the stuff with the longer half lives, you could poison someone up to a few billion years later.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on January 07, 2014, 06:21:26 am
Try not to end up with radioactive stuff. Metals from the former USSR have been found to contain Strontium 90 among other assorted nasties. This is because several deactivated reactors have been hit my metal thieves who sell the scrap to scrap yards without telling them where it came from. So that cheap ebay deal on sheets of Russian lead? Don't risk it. I stumbled across this info while researching bioremediation of radioactive wastes. Lead can be radioactive if it is a byproduct of fission. And this stuff is usually stored by burying it. It's also possible for it to be contaminated with particulate which ends up in any scrap lot it gets melted into. If you have stock of metals from there already, I suggest getting the Geiger counter out of your BOB and making sure you don't have a hot batch sitting in your workspace.

Yikes.  Thanks for the info.

But think of the type of bullets it would make?
Just right for some JBT turd.

just saying

 :laugh: ^_^ :laugh:

Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: FDD on January 07, 2014, 08:48:22 am
But think of the type of bullets it would make?
Just right for some JBT turd.

just saying

If you aim well, it would be irrelevant to your target, but roughly equivalent to pulling the pin on a MkII Pineapple and sticking it in your pocket. You could hurt your opponent, but are more likely to just kill yourself by handling the stuff or carrying it around. If you failed to recover it and it contains the stuff with the longer half lives, you could poison someone up to a few billion years later.


What? you want to live forever?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on January 08, 2014, 02:50:35 am
But think of the type of bullets it would make?
Just right for some JBT turd.

just saying

If you aim well, it would be irrelevant to your target, but roughly equivalent to pulling the pin on a MkII Pineapple and sticking it in your pocket. You could hurt your opponent, but are more likely to just kill yourself by handling the stuff or carrying it around. If you failed to recover it and it contains the stuff with the longer half lives, you could poison someone up to a few billion years later.


What? you want to live forever?

Yes actually. I would not mind being immortal. But there is a question in my mind of whether or not death is even possible in the sense of a finality to life.... Isn't existence really a dance of light and dark, life and death... No energy is created or lost, nor does any new matter come to exist or pass away... All things are simply in a state of constant change. And by that token, none of us truly ceases to exist... We simply change form. Like the day passing into night, the Sun rises again in the morning, and so rolls the wheel of time... We are born, we consume dead things to sustain our lives, and then we die and are eaten by other living things, and become their life... So we are dispersed and come together again in different combinations, but our energy and matter are never lost... All of it is simple rearrangement.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: securitysix on January 08, 2014, 06:22:56 pm
We simply change form.

Wonder twin powers, activate!!!!

Sorry. I know you're being serious, deep, and spiritual there, but I had to.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on January 08, 2014, 06:51:55 pm
We simply change form.

Wonder twin powers, activate!!!!

Sorry. I know you're being serious, deep, and spiritual there, but I had to.

If you're going to be silly, you're going to have to take responsibility... for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLLWDeypRFM
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Rarick on January 09, 2014, 09:29:44 am
I remember a Sci-Fi game, based on a lot of HARD science, that had bullets that were hollow californium that were fired out of hypervelocity guns.  When they squashed, they would go supercritical.........

They energy weapons dealt with the inverse square law, efficiency scaling for large power plants and other semi-esoteric natural laws were used in the equipment design rules.  I consider it a hard science based game until you get pretty advanced for those reasons.  You could also use it to reverse design equipment, using the rules, out of the Jane's manuals and figure out the "Classified"  real world numbers close enough to be scary.  I knew the real numbers since I was working on that equipment.......
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on January 09, 2014, 11:38:51 am
I remember a Sci-Fi game, based on a lot of HARD science, that had bullets that were hollow californium that were fired out of hypervelocity guns.  When they squashed, they would go supercritical.........

They energy weapons dealt with the inverse square law, efficiency scaling for large power plants and other semi-esoteric natural laws were used in the equipment design rules.  I consider it a hard science based game until you get pretty advanced for those reasons.  You could also use it to reverse design equipment, using the rules, out of the Jane's manuals and figure out the "Classified"  real world numbers close enough to be scary.  I knew the real numbers since I was working on that equipment.......

Man would I love to come hang out in your shop sometime...
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: heyoka on January 09, 2014, 11:56:03 am
(http://www.leaguesplash.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Mad-Scientist-Ziggs-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: securitysix on January 09, 2014, 06:30:25 pm
We simply change form.

Wonder twin powers, activate!!!!

Sorry. I know you're being serious, deep, and spiritual there, but I had to.

If you're going to be silly, you're going to have to take responsibility... for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLLWDeypRFM

And now that the transformations are complete, tune in to next week's episode, where they travel to the evil mastermind's lair.  The week after that, they will sneak past 15 minions.  And in the series finale, which is only 23 episodes long, they fight the evil mastermind...  :P

I think I need to build up my anime collection more.  Full Metal Panic and Noir just don't seem to be enough any more....

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread...  :)
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on January 09, 2014, 09:45:37 pm
How would you cast hollow californium bullets at home exactly?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Docliberty on January 09, 2014, 10:09:47 pm
How would you cast hollow californium bullets at home exactly?

Precise amount of californium in a mold spinning at the proper RPM.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Tipitaka on January 09, 2014, 10:14:40 pm
How would you cast hollow californium bullets at home exactly?

Precise amount of californium in a mold spinning at the proper RPM.

Suppose that'd work for other metals? Wouldn't the sides farthest from center have all of the metal? You'd end up with a cylander more or less with a hollow all the way though.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on June 27, 2014, 05:29:57 am
There is a group buy being discussed over at castboolits:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?244498-Range-lead-smelted-or-raw (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?244498-Range-lead-smelted-or-raw)

Bullets being separated from a berm and they estimate 30-60 thousand pounds of lead!

Right now it is in the 'discussion' part of the site.  Once they are ready to start taking orders it will move to the 'Active Group Buy' section.

Hoo boy.  That's a lot of freakin' lead.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: heyoka on June 27, 2014, 08:46:06 am
 :wav:
<hope it doesn't draw an Uncle Snidely smack down>
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: StillaGhost on June 27, 2014, 06:05:36 pm
There is a group buy being discussed over at castboolits:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?244498-Range-lead-smelted-or-raw (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?244498-Range-lead-smelted-or-raw)

Bullets being separated from a berm and they estimate 30-60 thousand pounds of lead!

Right now it is in the 'discussion' part of the site.  Once they are ready to start taking orders it will move to the 'Active Group Buy' section.

Hoo boy.  That's a lot of freakin' lead.

 
   Guess I'll have to start checking over there every couple of days. I'd take a couple of hundred lbs of the smelted bars.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Rarick on June 28, 2014, 09:50:39 am
I remember a Sci-Fi game, based on a lot of HARD science, that had bullets that were hollow californium that were fired out of hypervelocity guns.  When they squashed, they would go supercritical.........

They energy weapons dealt with the inverse square law, efficiency scaling for large power plants and other semi-esoteric natural laws were used in the equipment design rules.  I consider it a hard science based game until you get pretty advanced for those reasons.  You could also use it to reverse design equipment, using the rules, out of the Jane's manuals and figure out the "Classified"  real world numbers close enough to be scary.  I knew the real numbers since I was working on that equipment.......

Man would I love to come hang out in your shop sometime...

The real numbers on the F-18, A-6, and for a few month M-1, M-60 equipment.......  Janes came within about 20% of those numbers......  The game rules came within 5%.......

The game part of the Californium rounds was the Half life of the heavy metal.........by the time you finished doing the spheres, they would be like depleted Uranium.  Heavy but not nuclear reactive..........    The game had this thing called a damper box, a sort of nuclear 'fridge that kept the rounds "Fresh".......

Now a Large Damper box and a 3d printer and the right kind of swaging/ tempering...........and ?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on June 29, 2014, 06:34:21 am
I remember a Sci-Fi game, based on a lot of HARD science, that had bullets that were hollow californium that were fired out of hypervelocity guns.  When they squashed, they would go supercritical.........

They energy weapons dealt with the inverse square law, efficiency scaling for large power plants and other semi-esoteric natural laws were used in the equipment design rules.  I consider it a hard science based game until you get pretty advanced for those reasons.  You could also use it to reverse design equipment, using the rules, out of the Jane's manuals and figure out the "Classified"  real world numbers close enough to be scary.  I knew the real numbers since I was working on that equipment.......

Man would I love to come hang out in your shop sometime...

The real numbers on the F-18, A-6, and for a few month M-1, M-60 equipment.......  Janes came within about 20% of those numbers......  The game rules came within 5%.......

The game part of the Californium rounds was the Half life of the heavy metal.........by the time you finished doing the spheres, they would be like depleted Uranium.  Heavy but not nuclear reactive..........    The game had this thing called a damper box, a sort of nuclear 'fridge that kept the rounds "Fresh".......

Now a Large Damper box and a 3d printer and the right kind of swaging/ tempering...........and ?

Unstoppable.

The most sought-after person post TSHTF.

By the way, so far my searches have come back empty.  What game are you talking about?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Rarick on June 29, 2014, 11:52:14 am
The name of the game was Striker, written by games workshop.  We are talking early mid 80's for the publication.  Games Workshop is gone, but the "Original Artist" has the rules on CD's.  He swlls them at http://www.farfuture.net/index.html (http://www.farfuture.net/index.html)  It is part of the classic traveller cdrom......

By the way I believe californium is a relatively inert element, either that or it decays so fast that no one has found all that much about it.......  strictly something named for the sake of a game mechanic while keeping the kids from doing something stupid?
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on June 30, 2014, 06:28:56 am
Wow.  Over 650 pages of Core Rules for the game?  I imagine most people these days wouldn't have the patience to make it past page 12.  All the books and dice remind me of my days playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons...
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Rarick on July 03, 2014, 09:16:44 am
Actually less than that, but yeah, a lot of folks that call themselves geeks and RPGers now days aren't......  You are actually talking about 100-150 pages of core rules for Striker.  These books for the classic version were 5x8 so that is exaggerated.  The 3 rulesbooks for the megatraveller (which absorbs Striker) version don't have to be absorbed all at once either.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on July 07, 2014, 06:24:34 am
Visited my family over the 4th and there was another 150ish pounds of wheel weights waiting for me.  Thanks to our busy schedule I was only able to melt down about 40 pounds of it.  I'm now in the habit of separating the sticky wheel weights were are pure lead - going to use these for my shotgun slug and buckshot casting.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: securitysix on July 07, 2014, 05:52:08 pm
Visited my family over the 4th and there was another 150ish pounds of wheel weights waiting for me.  Thanks to our busy schedule I was only able to melt down about 40 pounds of it.  I'm now in the habit of separating the sticky wheel weights were are pure lead - going to use these for my shotgun slug and buckshot casting.

I've read the sticky ones are also good for black powder projectiles (ball or conical).
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: FDD on February 06, 2016, 09:34:02 am
Bump

winter time is casting time
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Baked at 420 on February 06, 2016, 07:13:10 pm
I was thinking, that if you wanted to do a lot of damage, you could make a soft pure lead tube, with little pellets of lead-bismuth alloy inside, and hold it together with candle wax. Would be like shooting a little deadblow hammer.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on February 07, 2016, 07:12:32 am
Winter time is casting time indeed!  I've been concentrating on buckshot the past few sessions.  I go through 00 buck amazingly fast when I'm reloading shotshells.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on July 31, 2018, 08:04:29 am
Another old thread!  I was melting down wheel weights yesterday (something I haven't done in quite awhile) and brought back fond memories.  Living at the homestead now I'm very busy at other tasks.

A friend actually asked if he could have some zinc ingots so I separated out zinc from lead and will be melting down those soon.  Zinc has a higher melt temp so will take longer to achieve.  I am noticing more zinc wheel weights now.  Sigh... the cheap and plentiful source of lead is diminishing.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: casca-503 on August 08, 2018, 12:09:19 pm
   the   last   5   gal.   pail   I   bought   was    mostly   STEEL  w.w.'s.....only   good   for   sling-shot    ammo....sad..... 
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on August 09, 2018, 07:21:37 am
   the   last   5   gal.   pail   I   bought   was    mostly   STEEL  w.w.'s.....only   good   for   sling-shot    ammo....sad.....

And really hard to melt down in your little furnace!  In fact, darn near impossible...
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: Docliberty on August 09, 2018, 12:13:14 pm
   the   last   5   gal.   pail   I   bought   was    mostly   STEEL  w.w.'s.....only   good   for   sling-shot    ammo....sad.....

And really hard to melt down in your little furnace!  In fact, darn near impossible...

I do believe that we have Obama's EPA to thank for that.
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: casca-503 on August 09, 2018, 01:11:20 pm
yes,  Sir,   true...last  lead   smelter  was   shut   down   ////    o'blowme's   handy   work..../    being   retired,   I   have   early   morning   access    to   the   target   back-stop   berm   to   harvest   fired   items   from   the   dirt...   /   that   &   some   50/50   solder   makes   some   reasonably   usable    " tops "   to   reuse....
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on August 10, 2018, 08:54:09 am
  o'blowme's   handy   work....

 ^_^ :laugh:
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: casca-503 on August 10, 2018, 10:37:18 pm
   9   pounds   range   lead   &    1/2   pound    50/50   solder  =  good   alloy    /     same    mix    with    95/5    instead   of   50/50   makes    harder    result..../     Lyman    mold   #    358156   w/gas check   works   good    in   .357   /    #  31141  G,C.    =   good    .308   &    30-30   fodder.....
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on August 16, 2018, 07:01:24 am
   9   pounds   range   lead   &    1/2   pound    50/50   solder  =  good   alloy    /     same    mix    with    95/5    instead   of   50/50   makes    harder    result..../     Lyman    mold   #    358156   w/gas check   works   good    in   .357   /    #  31141  G,C.    =   good    .308   &    30-30   fodder.....

Was out looking for 50/50 solder the other day and even that is getting hard to find!  Everything is advertised as 'lead free'!  I can find it online but, if at all possible, I try to buy local at brick and mortar stores...
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: casca-503 on August 16, 2018, 07:58:32 am
yes....I  try  to  support   local   as   much  as   possible...../    stay   within  20   ---   30   mile   range..../   retired   from  heating  /   hvac  /   trades...can   still   shop  " supply  houses "  /    makes   that   type   of   purchase   little   easier.../    if   a   ' junk   yard '  /   recycling  facility   is   any  where   near   you..../   buy   TIN   &   add   1/2   pound   to   your   alloy...will   make    mold   fill   out   better..../   {  old  type   wheel   weights =  lead / tin / antimony  }.....when   you  can   find   them...
Title: Re: Lead and other alloys (for bullet casting)
Post by: knobster on August 16, 2018, 11:46:13 am
Good idea!  There is a recycling place near me that sells metal.  Tin included...