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Special Interest => Singles & the Single Life => Topic started by: Tahn L. on September 02, 2015, 01:19:38 pm

Title: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Tahn L. on September 02, 2015, 01:19:38 pm
My Essentials For a (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship

First and foremost, mutual openness, honesty and truth. These are essential from both parties. From these will come trust, the underlining foundation and basis for any relationship.

Second, a true friendship based on the above. If you are not good and dear friends, who enjoy each others companionship and company, why would you want a commitment to a life spent together?

Third, a matching moral and ethical standard of values. If not matching there will be conflict, in my opinion. In my case this requires her to be libertarian in spirit and action. Consideration should also be given to compatible diets and approaches to medicine, doctors, etc.

Fourth, a compatible spiritual belief. They certainly do not have to be the same but they do need to be compatible and not in conflict.

Fifth, a compatible and shared life goal. If one wants to travel and the other wants to be a homebody it is difficult. Not impossible but difficult and certainly not what I want.

Sixth, a compatible life style. If one wants to live in the country off grid and the other in a metropolitan high-rise or even if both want to live in the country but one wants a nice house on a hill with a barn and horses but the other wants a small cabin in the woods with a few chickens or goats, it will cause a conflict or disappointment to one or both.

Seventh, Who’s in charge? Of the house, money, the garden or of security. Often these determinations are a natural and mutually agreeable aspect of two people but when there is a conflict, it can be shattering and divisive. Arguing can be a destructive influence on any relationship, especially when living together in close quarters and these aspects should be worked out before a commitment.
 
Eighth, a mutual pheromone attraction. This is not absolutely critical but sure helps in getting along :) Unfortunately, this last aspect is usually the one that first attracts two people to each other but I do not believe that it alone will hold a couple together over a long haul.  I am convinced that this should be postponed until after the first seven have been determined to be mutual. Then jump over the broomstick, best wishes and good luck.

These are just my criteria, not ones I am suggesting for others, although I believe they should be thought about and discussed. Maybe that’s why I’m still single, 20 some years after I divorced my first (and only) wife. But these were all aspects of contention in my marriage, some more than others, that were harmful, hurtful and hell.

If you can add some other aspects that you have found helpful or that you feel would be beneficial, please do.

added MamaLiberties suggestion below.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Bill St. Clair on September 02, 2015, 01:55:22 pm
Yep. Unfortunately, most people get married when they are very young, and prone to having everything overridden by chemistry.

I broke with my wife largely because she's a democrat. The actual political party doesn't matter, but the fact that she has a deep sense of entitlement. She's also a guilt tripper, trained well by her mother. It gets very old when your partner gets what she wants by attempting to make people feel bad.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: RVM45 on September 02, 2015, 02:31:48 pm
Your list is probably close to the truth…

But for an Independent Thinker who isn't the result of one of the Cookie-Cutter Conformist Molds

Your odds of scoring even 3 out of 8 are dismal.

"Don't you want to be a Non-Conformist Like Everyone Else?"

"No, I want to be a Maverick and Boldly Follow The Herd…"


HMMMmmnnn…..?

Might make a good theme/title for a book: "Frenzied Exchanges with '60s Flower Children and other Irrationals"




…..RVM45
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: MamaLiberty on September 02, 2015, 02:44:19 pm
I'd add that consideration should be given to compatible diets and approaches to medicine, doctors, etc.

A lady who wants to go to the doctor all the time, or worse, manipulate her husband, will not be happy with an independent man who will only take a pill if the problem is life threatening.

And if you take on a partner who has serious health issues, these need to be discussed and strategy agreed on long before the wedding bells.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Tahn L. on September 02, 2015, 08:07:16 pm
ML,  Good one about diet and Doctors. Consider it added.

RVM45.   I corresponded with several (ok many) Ladies  when I was "dating" on the internet and found that many were just right except for one or two of these items on my list. I met a few but something always came up that was a barrier. I felt it "safer" to just correspond since I still get dang attracted to the ladies. One reason I am a hermit now.

Btw, I was a 60's and early 70's "Flowerchild". Yep, maybe not as irrational as some as I lived in a tipi, was anti gov. and had a craft but even now, I am still anti-war but I expanded my motto of "Peace, Love and Brotherhood" to "Peace, Love and Brotherhood Through Equal Rights and Firepower. Just shows you there is always hope.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: RVM45 on September 02, 2015, 11:17:35 pm
When I was a Teen talking to Teeny-Bopper Hippy wannabees I never could understand why when I said, "I agree with 95% of what you said, but lets examine that other 5%…"

 They would screame in rage, turn on the Heavy Duty Sarcasm and act like someone  pouring a Gallon of Molten Lead on a Garden Slug when a Pinch of Salt would have been as effective…

{Understand, there were things where we were 180o apart and I expected for them to get wet and soggy, remarkably saline and damned hard to get along with over them. What puzzled me was why the hostility when we almost agreed?}

Much of the Philosophy of the '60s was based on the idea that everything in life is Black or White. We should all color exclusively with Primary Colored Crayons and the Solution to all life's problems is incredibly simple—only some Rat-Prick Bastards have been spreading gloom and depravity via the hoax that some issues in life are complex…

When they meet someone like that, they give him all the withering scorn and contempt that should be reserved for pedophiles, dudes that put ketchup on hot dogs and country music musicians.

"Turn On; Tune In and Drop Out"

Yeah, some Survivalists have been trying to become independent enough to largely Drop Out for over 40 years now—and a few of them are almost there.

Of course if you're willing to survive by begging and getting food stamps it becomes laughably simple…

If being dependent on the system that you fear and loathe doesn't hurt your pride.

But Anyway:

"Come now let us Reason together" affects folk of this tapster like Silver Crosses Weird Vampires.


…..RVM45
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Tahn L. on September 03, 2015, 12:59:18 pm
Well, I have never gotten food stamps and only panhandled once. Got into a pretty civil discussion with one guy on the ethics of it. I think he ended up giving me a buck. That was in Boulder in 71 or so.

I think I had an advantage in being 25 or so before I followed Dr. Leary's advice. The people I hung around with were of the quality who could defend their positions with words and succinct  argument. They still are but the number has dropped considerably. When I was a hippy, all we wanted was free speech. Nowadays they  want to control speech, just like the control freaks of yesterday. Go Figure.

The most extended debate I can remember was at the first Gathering of the Rainbow Tribe in 71. It was over whether it was polite to fart at a meal, when there were "No Rules". The argument was settled by the Lady in charge of the food table saying "That's right, No Rules BUT, My table, No Farting. Don't like it, eat somewhere else."

I will still engage in a dialog with almost anyone, as long as we are actually communicating, not just throwing words.

HEY, I love, pure country music. Not the new stuff but mountain music. As Ray Charles said about country music (he loved it) "It's all about the story". Sometimes it's about the music also. Have you seen the movie "Song Catcher"?
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 05, 2015, 11:17:51 am
Once a person opens the Pandora's Box of human sexuality and starts honestly dealing with what you will eventually discover, It will be hard not to end up having most think you are a horrid misanthrope.

What is a good match? I think I am discovering that, problem is that many of the things I love are divided among many.

All but number eight make a great friend, problem is that sex is the very glue that makes a mate a mate and not a friend.

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mutual pheromone attraction. This is not absolutely critical but sure helps in getting along

It is not critical for a man to desire sex from a woman, and some (not most) women can over time negotiate themselves out of this if there factors become more wanted (provisioning over desire). What I will tell you is that for more than a limited tryst or a horrible end to a dull or torturous relationship this compatibility BETTER be there!

As luck would have it this compatibility is common! My guess is, of the people you pick for dating likely 75% are compatible (could be 80% after a shower!) this is also a function of the initial choosing, General human health* has strong visual indicators! (Not counting some problems or even surgical procedures)

We tend to be more choosy than we think we are, and far more than we would ever admit to most of the time.

My valued items in a woman:

1. Femininity, the entire package: curves (although I find that my acceptable body type runs a huge gamut), long hair (yes I'll tell you most guys think that short hair thing is at BEST tolerable), graceful movements, pleasant voice and manors, pleasant giving demeanor. A desire to be wanted and protected in the most basic (simple) ways.

2. Sexual submissiveness: I must indicate that I am one of the few "over the top" hyper masculine types and I can deal with a "brat" quite effectively in and out of actual play. But without a second thought this aspect must be there. Clearly the recent popularity of BDSM in the world of womanly erotica has brought this out of the dark closet and has been a huge boon for my type in the dating world.

3. Genetic compatibility: while I am no longer interested in having more children and raising another family the biological programing is not to be trifled with. That pheromone attraction fits in here as well.

4. Intelligence and a higher than normal ability to communicate and converse. (I have found that the more liberal arts educated a woman is the lower this becomes as they tend to parrot out leftist brainwashing - good for romp in the sack and not much else).

Strangest thing is that I tend to be the most sexually comparable with women that are far leftist and highly educated, I believe it is a predatory thing and I, without a doubt tend to play with them for the sexual thrill, get bored and go to the next. Honestly they tend to throw themselves at me, so bereft of "manliness" in their lives, I tend to be sympathetic to the plight of their spiraling lives but that screeching leftism eventually ruins things and I loose my ability to tolerate anything other than screaming sex.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 05, 2015, 12:49:41 pm
I should also add we know for a fact that biologically speaking women are serial monogamous (translation - not lifetime monogamous, always looking for better!) and men are polygamous (will go where allowed by the participants).

Socially high value men will always be in demand by larger numbers of women, the rest of the men get sorted out by women depending on a sliding scale and a woman's ability to "get better"...
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Silver on September 09, 2015, 09:08:10 am
Heh.  I love the looks I get when I tell folks that in our society we practice serial polygamy.

A friend's wife once told me that she would rather her husband and I spend a weekend drinking whiskey and chasing women than she attend a conference on gold with us.  I asked her how she felt about catch and release.

Peace,

Silver
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: RVM45 on September 09, 2015, 11:52:51 am
EE…

A "Gentleman" is defined as Someone who never displays Overt Sexuality.

A Gentleman never makes a pass at a Lady unless he is 100% sure she will say: "Yes'.

Presuming that the Lady with a "No" riding on the tip of her tongue has a "Yes" instead is the Height of Presumption.

{I'm not talking about asking for Sex—this applies even to asking her out for a "Date".}

And in this World, Women reward Neanderthals who grunt and grope with both Sex and Companionship while Gentlemen live their lives Alone.

Once he realizes the game is rigged, a man with even a small shred of self-respect will refuse to play it…

Especially since playing involves not only the Heartache—which is comparatively insignificant—but the loss of face involved in losing to one's inferiors.




…..RVM45
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: StillaGhost on September 09, 2015, 12:48:46 pm
EE…

A "Gentleman" is defined as Someone who never displays Overt Sexuality.

A Gentleman never makes a pass at a Lady unless he is 100% sure she will say: "Yes'.

Presuming that the Lady with a "No" riding on the tip of her tongue has a "Yes" instead is the Height of Presumption.

{I'm not talking about asking for Sex—this applies even to asking her out for a "Date".}

And in this World, Women reward Neanderthals who grunt and grope with both Sex and Companionship while Gentlemen live their lives Alone.

Once he realizes the game is rigged, a man with even a small shred of self-respect will refuse to play it…

Especially since playing involves not only the Heartache—which is comparatively insignificant—but the loss of face involved in losing to one's inferiors.




…..RVM45

 
 
  Exactly correct. Well said......
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Adventurer, Explorer, Inquiring Mind. on September 09, 2015, 12:59:27 pm
I should also add we know for a fact that biologically speaking women are serial monogamous (translation - not lifetime monogamous, always looking for better!) and men are polygamous (will go where allowed by the participants).

Socially high value men will always be in demand by larger numbers of women, the rest of the men get sorted out by women depending on a sliding scale and a woman's ability to "get better"...

The term you are searching for, but may not be aware of is "hypergamy."  And it is a real concept.

In reality, women are turned on by men who possess self control, self respect and self worth.  THIS is what a gentleman is.  I'm not sure who taught you that a gentleman never shows overt sexuality towards his partner.  A gentleman is a man who knows his worth, his skill and that of his desired mate.

The alpha male monkey will show similar traits, and this is why women go for the scumbags.  Because the good guys have been victim to religious and hollywood two prong attack of matriarchal brainwashing.  Women want good men, men want good women, but we've all received some degree of brainwashing as to how to approach said desired asset.

For example, we've been hollywooded that a "strong woman" is a woman who is a dyke and a bitch.  We've been taught that a good man is an obedient drone with a good paycheck for his family to mooch until he dies.  We've been taught everything wrong.

In reality, a strong woman is one who loves who she loves and is an unassailable fortress to bullshit and backstabbing, who's sure of herself and her knowledge and feelings rather than being easily swayed by any tramp scumbag who wanders by and has even 5% inkling of "mojo" or "game" or whatnot. 

A strong man, by comparison, is one who stands tall for what he believes, and doesn't sell out.  He learned from watching other animals and knows that a male shows weakness only when he's so close to dying that he's about to keel over.  We've been taught women love crybabies and teddy bears.  To quote a friend of mine:  "A woman will sleep with a teddy bear, but the Teddy won't get lucky."

A strong woman knows her man is hers, and knows how to keep him, and knows how not to be a clingy whiny little girl crying for attention at all times.  She isn't a skanky whore spreading around the weekly dose of herpes or gonorrhea.

A strong man knows his woman is his, and knows how to get her and keep her equally well.  He doesn't get jealous.  He perplexes her by NOT punching out that cute guy at the clothes store for talking to her.  He doesn't even mind her flirting, even if he keeps an eye on it to see if he should concern himself.  His self assurance actually strengthens hers.  He also knows that if she betrays him or walks away, he should be a man, and live his life.  If he's truly a catch and knows it (not necessarily rich, but a catch nonetheless) then he also knows that she squandered a wonderful life.  He moves on with a shrug and a laugh as he knows he kept living his life and didn't put it on hold in some bullshit Romeo and Juliette-an way.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As for "losing to one's inferiors" I do so every time I pay "my taxes."  Everyone in the county office is my inferior in intellect, and most, in physical ability as well.  THAT bothers me.  Having a parasite try to sell my house if I'm late with "my taxes" bothers me.  Losing a dumb young woman to a scumbag punk does not. 

Lets face it, losing a hot girl to some punk kid should make you laugh about her stupidity or immaturity and her poor judge of character.  Thank the punk kid for saving you from her and find a better specimen.  I'm hearing from a lot of quarters that the ratio of eligible women to eligible men these days is almost 8 or 10 to 1.  That's a lot of fish in the sea.  Why lose any sleep over it?

Given time you'll perfect your craft and find a good woman who will treasure you as you treasure her...
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 10, 2015, 12:50:41 pm
EE…

A "Gentleman" is defined as Someone who never displays Overt Sexuality.

A Gentleman never makes a pass at a Lady unless he is 100% sure she will say: "Yes'.

Presuming that the Lady with a "No" riding on the tip of her tongue has a "Yes" instead is the Height of Presumption.

{I'm not talking about asking for Sex—this applies even to asking her out for a "Date".}


Overt sexuality is inherent in our style of dress and social structure, it is why the neoteny and androgyny of the de-manculinised and de-feminised is so odd and repellent.

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And in this World, Women reward Neanderthals who grunt and grope with both Sex and Companionship while Gentlemen live their lives Alone.

Yes, because we are biological creatures with pre-programed responses, we are only a slightly evolved ape.

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Once he realizes the game is rigged, a man with even a small shred of self-respect will refuse to play it…

I don't understand not evolving to do what is needed to win... To win (or more accurately earn) what you want or need is never diminishing of any self-respect. To choose to not "participate" is a personal choice but I do not presume dignity or self-respect is added by that choice.

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Especially since playing involves not only the Heartache—which is comparatively insignificant—but the loss of face involved in losing to one's inferiors.

I do not consider women inferiors nor even any of "competition" in that way, I simply recognize that we are apes and as such only have a thin veneer over that animal nature by virtue of a larger more capable brain.

Would not one strive to be "better" to become the apex in attractiveness and desirability.

Is a brightly feathered bird (so adorned to attract mates) less because of the bright feathers?
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 10, 2015, 01:14:50 pm
I should also add we know for a fact that biologically speaking women are serial monogamous (translation - not lifetime monogamous, always looking for better!) and men are polygamous (will go where allowed by the participants).

Socially high value men will always be in demand by larger numbers of women, the rest of the men get sorted out by women depending on a sliding scale and a woman's ability to "get better"...

The term you are searching for, but may not be aware of is "hypergamy."  And it is a real concept.


I am fully aware of that term and the science and fact behind it, and thanks for being the one to use it, I think I will continue to avoid terms and concepts that as you know clearly enrage any who are part of, or enslaved by the Imperative.

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In reality, women are turned on by men who possess self control, self respect and self worth.  THIS is what a gentleman is.  I'm not sure who taught you that a gentleman never shows overt sexuality towards his partner.  A gentleman is a man who knows his worth, his skill and that of his desired mate.

RVM45, posted what you are responding to here, I of course tend to more agree with your presentation of observational fact.

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We've been taught women love crybabies and teddy bears.

Sadly leaving a sexless male population addicted to porn or chumps that have been taken for cash and prizes... (or for that matter the small percentage of women taken for that same cash and prizes - as we recognize the government will use even laws meant to advance a targeted group in reverse to gain money).

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A strong woman knows her man is hers, and knows how to keep him, and knows how not to be a clingy whiny little girl crying for attention at all times.  She isn't a skanky whore spreading around the weekly dose of herpes or gonorrhea.

I have to say that I understand the hope but all men and all women have biological triggers, the volume that it is elevated to, and the receptiveness to them, is of course adjustable. Even the "best" of us will succumb when the threshold is reached - every ape has his or her eventual price, be that low or high! Including the unfortunate "war bride" response.

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A strong man knows his woman is his, and knows how to get her and keep her equally well.  He doesn't get jealous.  He perplexes her by NOT punching out that cute guy at the clothes store for talking to her.  He doesn't even mind her flirting, even if he keeps an eye on it to see if he should concern himself.  His self assurance actually strengthens hers.  He also knows that if she betrays him or walks away, he should be a man, and live his life.  If he's truly a catch and knows it (not necessarily rich, but a catch nonetheless) then he also knows that she squandered a wonderful life.  He moves on with a shrug and a laugh as he knows he kept living his life and didn't put it on hold in some bullshit Romeo and Juliette-an way.

Nicely done - self-improvement is the only way to a better life, it must always be for oneself.

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As for "losing to one's inferiors" I do so every time I pay "my taxes."  Everyone in the county office is my inferior in intellect, and most, in physical ability as well.  THAT bothers me.  Having a parasite try to sell my house if I'm late with "my taxes" bothers me.  Losing a dumb young woman to a scumbag punk does not.

Even the "scumbag punk" has at least earned what he has (in this case), the masses of inferiors have been bought and paid for... a long time ago.

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I'm hearing from a lot of quarters that the ratio of eligible women to eligible men these days is almost 8 or 10 to 1.  That's a lot of fish in the sea.

I heve earned nine for myself I keep in regular rotation. And yes a 35 year old man who is fit (not a fat ass) and is masculine and understands attraction and arousal for women, has a sea to swim in.

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Why lose any sleep over it?

Exactly.

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Given time you'll perfect your craft and find a good woman who will treasure you as you treasure her...

Or several... No reason to reject the benefits of what you can earn.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: RVM45 on September 10, 2015, 07:10:49 pm
I think the Victorians had a good handle on how a Gentleman should behave.

The Ideal and NOT the skin-deep lip service many hypocrites practiced.

Ask yourself:

"Would this be appropriate to say to a young and unmarried Queen Victoria?"

Well then, its not appropriate to talk that way to a Convenience Clerk who Moonlights as a Stripper EITHER.

A REAL Man never loses. One loss is enough to Destroy all the intrinsic worth that he will ever have.

Yet "Ecclesiastes" teaches that The race is not necessarily to the swift nor the battle to the strong—but time and circumstance happens to everyone.

So a Real Man avoids anything that even remotely smacks of competition.

People always ask:

"Can you shoot pool or Basketball—or whatever?"

Sure provided that "Winning" is of no importance to you.

What about if you apply for a job?

Even though it might—and has—cost me a great deal—once I realize I'm being directly compared to someone else…

PLEASE give the position to him!

Can you defend your life?

Sure because dying isn't a loss or a dishonour no matter how inconvenient it my be.

Living or Dying—like the score in a pick-up Basketball game—is of No Importance.

But anytime you attempt to court a woman you are in competition with every man she ever dated before you and every man that she might date in the future.

This is an Existential Fact. You might not THINK of it as a Competition. She might not THINK of it as a Competition. None of her other Gentalman suitors may THINK of it as competition…
 
Nonetheless, on Judgement Day God will point at a crowd and say;

"You allowed each and every one of those men to Count Coup against you while you're on Earth and your Position in Heaven is Permanently Lowered as a Consequence.

{Counting Coup against other doesn't raise your own stock at all—just lowers theirs.}

So if you don't want other men to have an opportunity to Count Coup against you—don't chase women.




…..RVM45
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 15, 2015, 09:55:38 am
First let me applaud your position.

I am going to assume it is a religious one.

You wish to stick to that, for good or bad results as you live here on this planet in the time you have - that is your choice.

If it is one of pain and suffering self-inflicted for the reason of "betterment of the soul" and "glory to God"

Good for you brother!

I think the Victorians had a good handle on how a Gentleman should behave.

The Ideal and NOT the skin-deep lip service many hypocrites practiced.

Ask yourself:

"Would this be appropriate to say to a young and unmarried Queen Victoria?"


While I understand your initial point, and do not mistake being a Cad for one who has no manners. I grew up in a rather strict southern household, I am told my social manners are rare refreshing in todays world.

I question the reference to that particular Queen as it is historically evident that she was actually easily seduced and quite the hussy with Albert, so distraught at the loss of his "manly services" she went black after his death, then relenting to biology with a horseman servant as a lover later. While quite dashing (as noted by the queen) the queen was quite ordinary pudgy and dour in countenance and filled with artificially inflated self-value (spoiled in the same way current western women in mass are now) while Albert was fit, attractive, intelligent, and educated.

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Well then, its not appropriate to talk that way to a Convenience Clerk who Moonlights as a Stripper EITHER.

While agreed, I also do not agree that any person male or female should ever be placed on a pedestal there is no more value in the First Lady than a street-walking crack whore... In the right circumstances all women (and people) are capable of any station. Politeness to all elevation for none.

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A REAL Man never loses. One loss is enough to Destroy all the intrinsic worth that he will ever have.

Yet "Ecclesiastes" teaches that The race is not necessarily to the swift nor the battle to the strong—but time and circumstance happens to everyone.

Objectively true? Yes "luck" happens - it is a quantifiable statistical anomaly, that flows with variations and constraints.

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So a Real Man avoids anything that even remotely smacks of competition.

This sounds as a personal code derived from a combination of places, it is not universal to even the evolving behaviors starting with the medieval "code of chivalry" as one would expect I cannot argue a subjective personal opinion as this belongs to you, I disagree but again it ends in trying to fit facts into belief and logic and reason mean nothing in that world, and can never.

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People always ask:

What about if you apply for a job?

Even though it might—and has—cost me a great deal—once I realize I'm being directly compared to someone else…

PLEASE give the position to him!

As a father of children, with a former fully dependent spouse I was expected to feed and house all of them - I and many others cannot and never could afford this, the epitome of folly to the point of foolishness - I climbed to the highest points in the corporate world in my field by effort and intrinsic talent - I EARNED that! Effort, sweat, toil both physical and mental can earn rewards, I would sincerely propose that there is noting un-gentilmanly about this in the least.

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Can you defend your life?

Sure because dying isn't a loss or a dishonour no matter how inconvenient it my be.

Living or Dying—like the score in a pick-up Basketball game—is of No Importance.

We will have to disagree here, and yet circumstances do change parameters, this is not a reasonable universal statement, in that I feel it needs clarification as it is not a black or white subject (much on self-defense has been hashed out here on the boards).

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But anytime you attempt to court a woman you are in competition with every man she ever dated before you and every man that she might date in the future.

This is the nature of all mammals, our particular species of ape is not immune, we are rather hard-wired for this.

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This is an Existential Fact. You might not THINK of it as a Competition. She might not THINK of it as a Competition. None of her other Gentalman suitors may THINK of it as competition…

Anyone with eyes can see it is EXACTLY that, it is in the hard-wired genetic code!
 
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Nonetheless, on Judgement Day God will point at a crowd and say;

"You allowed each and every one of those men to Count Coup against you while you're on Earth and your Position in Heaven is Permanently Lowered as a Consequence.

A religious position I have no input into, I recognize part of that is counter to nature and biology and therefore I feel justified in my view to reject in effect we recognize an impasse that cannot be resolved by logic and reason therefore "agree to disagree" and go to another point.

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{Counting Coup against other doesn't raise your own stock at all—just lowers theirs.}

So if you don't want other men to have an opportunity to Count Coup against you—don't chase women.

…..RVM45

Or never want to have sex, children, a family or marriage (if so inclined) then that may well be the case. By statistical analytics from time to time something may filter down but this is a big filter and represents much lost opportunity. I prefer to not have life filter for me but to aggressively search for what I want and continue on with endless self-inprovement for my own sake.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Tahn L. on September 15, 2015, 12:05:31 pm
Not in rebuttal to any specific reply or position but just to further share my thoughts and experiences and to respond to Mountain Prepper’s articulate expressions on dating.

I see three basic positions concerning heterosexual relations. I am not qualified to comment on any other.

 Monogamous, promiscuous and celibate. I’m sure there are many variations of each. For example, if you only have sex with one person at a time but change that person daily, would that be serial monogamy or promiscuous. I will let others debate the intricacies of these definitions.

 I came into physical maturity during the “sexual revolution”. The sixties and “free Love”. I cannot remember all the women I enjoyed having sex with but I do remember many of the acts themselves. This may seem perverted and perhaps/probably it was, depending on your definition but turn a young virile male loose in a bed full of hot and willing women and what will happen, will happen. At least it did with me and many of my friends because it was exciting and well, lots and lots of “fun”. It was most certainly promiscuous by any definition and probably includes, other words as well, including debauchery, lewd, libertine and so on. I am not defending my actions at all but merely attempting to describe my journey.

Now I will fast forward a half decade to having a monogamous relation with my wife. Many of those memories/images of wanton behavior were still in my mind and here is where I see that previous behavior as affecting my relationship. No single woman can ever live up to the combined behavior in sex of the many partners I had. At least I haven’t met her.  It became, to say the least, a strain on our relationship. Perhaps she had this same difficulty since she was also a member of my generation. This tension grew as the newness of our sexual relations wore off and we aged. I won’t go in to the various aspects of this but merely wish to say, that without a doubt, in my case, my past behavior affected my current relationship. It was not a benefit but a detriment.  Others may be different.

 After twenty some years and two wonderful children, we agreed on divorce. We actually held hands in the courtroom when the dissolution was legally confirmed, on Valentine’s Day. It wasn’t a lack of love per se but more a drifting away from the list of compatibility I started this thread with. Time changes things and people.

The divorce was two decades ago. I had several dates at first but sex seemed the first criteria on the ladies mind. I was lucky and steered away from this, having realized that my earlier wanton behavior and susceptibility to women had been a detriment to a lasting and loving relationship. I was determined not to repeat my earlier errors. I stopped “dating” and moved online to communicate with many wonderful women, whom I could keep at “arms length” during the process. It worked, as after many long and fruitful discussions, I found a serious lack of a critical component (list above) in every one.

There is one other important aspect of not being promiscuous now, while still wanting that wonderful partner that meets my criteria and I meet hers. I don’t want a partner that is constantly dating and engaging in sleepovers every week or month. I am not putting those women down (no pun intended) , not at all. To each their own and Mtn. Prepper, I hope you have a wonderful journey as you see fit to live your life as you wish. There might not be such a lady out there for me but the deciding thought that formed my current lifestyle was this. What if there IS such a wonderful person and she is now living a celibate life, having learned her lessons also, waiting for the right guy to come along and I meet her but have a blond on one arm and a redhead on the other and she takes in the situation immediately and decides, I am not worthy of her. The perfect woman and I failed her, even before we met. That would hurt. Actually, it would be devastating. I will stay celibate, God willing and Nature allows, just in case we meet. I want to be worthy, if at all possible.

Good luck to all, regardless of your actions and beliefs, in finding true happiness and hopefully, true and lasting love.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Adventurer, Explorer, Inquiring Mind. on September 15, 2015, 12:44:08 pm
See, this is where I see unicorn farts, bro.

This is no different than those who think that cops are great people (not because "some great people may choose to become cops out of a misguided belief that there they can do the most good."  I mean the people who say "cops are intrinsically good, as a profession, just a few bad apples ruining the rest of the really "good" men cracking heads, stealing lives and money and enforcing tyranny on men and women and even children who are often by far their betters.

I say this with some knowledge of the kinds of people who've enforced these unscientific mindsets.

For example, the original purpose of so many of these dictates in religious texts were attempts to CODIFY good behavior.  Good behaior isn't the bullshit self sacrificing crap we got once The State moved in and declared itself the final arbiter of all truth.  Good behavior back when it truly was good was the kind of behavior which kept disease from spreading, kept the tribesmen from killing each other over stolen property or offspring's origins disputes, and allowed them to not get slaughtered by neighboring tribes attempting to prey on them.  You will carefully note that the early biblical texts include the same or similar ancestor worship (heavily pruned in newer versions) which ALL tribal societies practiced.  The entirety of Kings 1/2 deal with kings who built, did, consecrated/failed/offended and then died and went to rest with their ancestors (the general verbiage boils down to this each time.)

This is because those documents were written by people for whom The State was a new construction.  The kings, as far as they could tell were still men from their own tribes.

All that feel good "romantic" bullshit is just a coat of sugar we put on the reality of existence.  We ALL fear loneliness.  The most fearful sound is no response when we do something.  Talking in an empty house, tree falling in the forest or a hammer dropping on an empty chamber.  It is cause without effect.  That's why lonely people in Wyoming get dogs, or go hang out at coffee shops with other old men, many of whom HATE each other, but will get together nonetheless, merely to avoid the loneliness that is probably the true essence of HELL.

We're free to create fictions, gods, goddesses, lovely womanly creatures of grace and beauty (which is often enough an attribution NOT AT ALL deserved, but created by our shakespearian education in school about Romeo And Juliet and MacBeth and other related crap.  We have fictions built on foundations of fictions.  This is like building a castle of sand on a foundation made of AIR.  Or maybe not even air but VOID.  The reason everything we're taught is wrong is because if God truly exists, and if all that is in nature is truly created by that one God, then to build unnatural systems which DEFY the very rules of existence is to be insane.  So romantic love, along with all this other crap, is a thin sugar coated veneer built on top of the fact that we're all a bunch of smelly, disgusting, shit stained, short lived monkeys with megalomaniacal delusions of grandeur.  (Seriously... God loved the monkeys best?)  Some of us try to achieve more, and the religious freaks drag us down into a hell of their own creation to rot in the mud alongside them.  And the best we have left now is to put a woman or someone else on a pedestal??

Wow.  Megalomania sans ambition, I'd say.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Tahn L. on September 15, 2015, 12:54:36 pm
DF,  I am confused. Were you replying to my last post or another?
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 15, 2015, 10:56:30 pm
merely wish to say, that without a doubt, in my case, my past behavior affected my current relationship. It was not a benefit but a detriment.  Others may be different.

“I don’t know if I am in horror of the fact that you sin knowingly or respect it. I believe I much prefer an honest sinner to those who insist on rewriting all traditional morality to suit themselves.” - anonymous religious woman

Yes some can and are damaged by some behavior they may not be ready for or wired for, my hope is that you can find something that fits close enough to what you want to fit your needs. (Nothing is ever perfect, so some compromise is necessary.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 16, 2015, 12:42:04 pm
DF,  I am confused. Were you replying to my last post or another?

The problem may well be a process of revealing or awakening to concepts that are not easy to take in light of years of conditioning.

He is making a point about "pedestalizing" women in a "Disney" way that is an objectively observed and noted phenomenon.

It is often shocking (and possibly unfair) dished out in large servings to any unaware.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Tahn L. on September 16, 2015, 01:29:13 pm
My confusion was the fact that I put no religious connotation into my two posts, except for the old Missouri saying "God willing and the creek don't rise" which I have modernized to "God willing and nature allows". In all due respect, I don't believe that I put women on an unrealistic pedestal either. I merely stated my history and current goals for finding a mate. I know several women who fit those "standards" but they are all married and to pretty great guys .

Perhaps I will not find her but I certainly see nothing wrong with setting my own standards for a mate. Not trying to set them for others. The reason for my second post was merely to show that I am not unexperienced in promiscuous behavior, quite the opposite. My intent was to describe how that behavior affected ME, in later life. No put down of others or of their lifestyle, as I believe I stated.

As to accepting someone who is "not perfect", I have no illusions that any of us are perfect. We all have flaws. I merely wish to find a lady that fits my criteria, which I listed in the first post. Don't think I will change any or compromise on those. I am looking for compatibility in a mate, not a committee to compromise with.

I have several lady friends who come out to my "retreat" to visit and we always have a great time but sex is not involved except for some occasional honest truth talk.

I believe I am as awake to most concepts as any, being an avid reader and libertarian but being awake to them and accepting them are two different things.

Anyway Mtn.Prepper, I thought your feelings and sharing were interesting and merely wished to relate what "maybe" could happen later in life. Since I am now 70, I have adopted the expression that "Old age does not give you wisdom but CAN give you perspective". My age might have something to do with our different perspectives and feelings. I don't believe that celibacy would have been possible FOR ME in my twenties through my late forties.

Peace, Love and Brotherhood Through Equal Rights And Firepower.
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Mountain Prepper on September 23, 2015, 08:28:31 am
The question can be:

If I have one life to live and one precious lifetime to do it in, what is more important; a commitment to oneself in learning and securing the best options for a lifetime or being committed to the principle of self-sacrificing commitment?


My confusion was the fact that I put no religious connotation into my two posts, except (...)

It may well be the words and definitions presented as in: "Monogamous, promiscuous and celibate" to start with. And as has been stated eloquently before the idea of "serial monogamy" is not monogamy at all (thank you Silver BTW).

We are an ape species that is not biologically wired for monogamy, I think that there are enough studies available on line and historical president enough to prove that beyond a doubt. Of course this is a "sliding scale" where we could get caught up in endless citing of individual cases -and of course the individual proclivities only "test the rule" not "prove the rule" as simple analytics should be without bias to gain data (data being without moral or directional weight, data being only a reference to that same).

Morality being a social and religious construct (that is constantly in flux and changing i.e.: abrahamic religious law, and how it is not followed and that subsequently rationalized.)

Quote
In all due respect, I don't believe that I put women on an unrealistic pedestal either. I merely stated my history and current goals for finding a mate. I know several women who fit those "standards" but they are all married and to pretty great guys.

Of course pointing to outlying examples only shows the scope of the "sliding scale" outlying examples do not indicate the norm, only place it on any scale of measure.

Pedestal-ization in this case is a specific term that you may well not be familiar with. In this case and because I know how it is being used (the term) yes, without reservation you are placing women outside of the measurable norm and it would fit the specific definition our compatriot DF is referring to (and I would as well).

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Perhaps I will not find her but I certainly see nothing wrong with setting my own standards for a mate.

On this concept, we will agree without reservation - what is good for you as a choice is your "standard" and using a religious reference "Bless you brother with all speed and good luck!" a happy, satisfying and productive life is good for humanity as a whole.

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The reason for my second post was merely to show that I am not unexperienced in promiscuous behavior, quite the opposite.

Our species is polygamous with somewhat opposing sexual strategies male is situationally polygamous (if possible - distribute genetics) by default and the female serially polygamous (if possible - collect genetics). Using the word promiscuous is placing a moralistic term on an observable behavior indicating a religious (or socially judgmental) view.

I am not saying that you cannot have a religious (or socially judgmental) view just showing how it indicates something to the reader.

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My intent was to describe how that behavior affected ME, in later life. No put down of others or of their lifestyle, as I believe I stated.

As is perfectly acceptable, and I understand, simply expanding on this communication.

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As to accepting someone who is "not perfect", I have no illusions that any of us are perfect. We all have flaws. I merely wish to find a lady that fits my criteria, which I listed in the first post. Don't think I will change any or compromise on those. I am looking for compatibility in a mate, not a committee to compromise with.


Perfectly acceptable for your goal, whereas I understand that fulfillment for my desires has to come from various sources as I understand that I will never (or very unlikely) find all I would desire in a single individual (in my case woman) so my compromise in the "not perfect" is to gather portions of this from several sources.

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I have several lady friends who come out to my "retreat" to visit and we always have a great time but sex is not involved except for some occasional honest truth talk.

Noting wrong with this, and by obverse I choose my biological programing and extensive skills to communicate and enjoy my time and connections.

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I believe I am as awake to most concepts as any, being an avid reader and libertarian but being awake to them and accepting them are two different things.

This is true, as you well know "what has been seen cannot be unseen" but many choose to ignore or rationalize away the unpleasant parts. I choose to look at all the information political, social, and sexual and fact is that real life is a "bitter pill" in all of the listed aspects. The very existence of this board and in a wider sense political views like libertarian exist because the narrative and the facts are not often "the same".

Quote
Anyway Mtn.Prepper, I thought your feelings and sharing were interesting and merely wished to relate what "maybe" could happen later in life. Since I am now 70, I have adopted the expression that "Old age does not give you wisdom but CAN give you perspective". My age might have something to do with our different perspectives and feelings. I don't believe that celibacy would have been possible FOR ME in my twenties through my late forties.

All presentations given with fact and individual perspective should be considered, how we evaluate that depends on our ability and desire to expand our personal knowledge.

I can tell you without reservation that when presented with the political manipulation of the populace I was shocked and angered, when I found out about the social manipulation of the populace, I was disappointed and depressed, and when I found out about the sexual manipulation of the populace... I was shocked, angered, depressed, disappointed, and eventually enlightened...
Title: Re: My Essentials For A (Hopefully) Lasting Relationship
Post by: Tahn L. on October 07, 2015, 12:40:19 pm
Having trouble with quotes so please forgive the format.

"If I have one life to live and one precious lifetime to do it in, what is more important; a commitment to oneself in learning and securing the best options for a lifetime or being committed to the principle of self-sacrificing commitment?"


I do not necessarily see a distinction between the two, nor do I see that being committed to a principle of commitment as being self-sacrificing. I have found that FOR ME, I have learned, through experimentation and learning, that I feel that a commitment to one lady is the best option. Others may reach different conclusions.

"It may well be the words and definitions presented as in: "Monogamous, promiscuous and celibate" to start with. And as has been stated eloquently before the idea of "serial monogamy" is not monogamy at all (thank you Silver BTW)."


I certainly did not mean any religious connotation in my use of those words, although after looking them up, there are secondary uses which could infer such.

"We are an ape species that is not biologically wired for monogamy, I think that there are enough studies available on line and historical president enough to prove that beyond a doubt. Of course this is a "sliding scale" where we could get caught up in endless citing of individual cases -and of course the individual proclivities only "test the rule" not "prove the rule" as simple analytics should be without bias to gain data (data being without moral or directional weight, data being only a reference to that same).
"

Well, we are supposed to be “thinking apes” and as such, supposedly have the ability for our minds to overrule our hardware. If we did not, we would still be raping every hot young female we encountered and killing every potential rival, as a rule rather than an exception.

"Pedestal-ization in this case is a specific term that you may well not be familiar with. In this case and because I know how it is being used (the term) yes, without reservation you are placing women outside of the measurable norm and it would fit the specific definition our compatriot DF is referring to (and I would as well).
"

Certainly my goal for a mate is not the norm but definitely at an extreme end of a scale, unless the scale is circular. I was not aware of the term “pedestal-ization” and I thank you for explaining it, although it sounds like one of those words made up by people who fail in their attempts at something and then wish to denigrate their failed goal. Perhaps I will not find her but I certainly see nothing wrong with setting my own standards for a mate.



"On this concept, we will agree without reservation - what is good for you as a choice is your "standard" and using a religious reference "Bless you brother with all speed and good luck!" a happy, satisfying and productive life is good for humanity as a whole."

Thank you Brother and the same back at you.


"I am not saying that you cannot have a religious (or socially judgmental) view just showing how it indicates something to the reader."


As I stated earlier (I hope) I was describing behavior, rather than a moral view and I certainly did not mean to be judgmental. To each his own, if aggression is not used. I do not believe that polygamy or any form of multiple commitments indicates promiscuous behavior. Promiscuous behavior is multiple sexual partners “outside” of a committed relationship.

 "As is perfectly acceptable, and I understand, simply expanding on this communication."



And I thank you for your expansion. Sorry for the delay in responding but solar power and old equipment severely limits my time on line.