The Mental Militia Forums

General Interest => Activism => Topic started by: Bill St. Clair on March 10, 2016, 03:03:03 am

Title: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on March 10, 2016, 03:03:03 am
I wrote a medium-length essay on property, rights, the Zero Aggression Principle, and abortion. Medium calls it a seven-minute read.

Plain HTML: https://billstclair.com/beliefs.html
Prettier layout: https://medium.com/@billstclair/what-i-believe-5b7e13bc4ff0
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: MamaLiberty on March 10, 2016, 05:53:30 am
Very interesting, Bill. I wish everyone would take the time and make the effort to organize and write about their beliefs and convictions.
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: heyoka on March 10, 2016, 11:05:34 am
Stevie Wonder says if you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer.
superstition in the way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDZFf0pm0SE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDZFf0pm0SE)
......but then, he's blind..........so...........................................................
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kalamu.com%2Fbol%2Fwp-content%2Fcontent%2Fimages%2Fstevie%2520wonder%252018.jpg&f=1)
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on March 10, 2016, 11:42:06 am
Are you implying that I don't understand something I said I believed? If so, what?
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: heyoka on March 11, 2016, 10:17:31 am
no sir
no affront intended
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: da gooch on March 11, 2016, 12:25:36 pm
Nicely expressed Bill. Well Done.

no sir
no affront intended

None of my business of course but I don't understand your first post either.
Disclaimer: I have not watched the video as I am one of the bandwidth challenged here at TMM.
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on March 11, 2016, 01:13:27 pm
no sir
no affront intended

I wasn't affronted. Just curious. Always want to know my shortcomings, so I can work on them.
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on March 11, 2016, 01:17:03 pm
Nicely expressed Bill. Well Done.

Thanks.

Quote
Disclaimer: I have not watched the video as I am one of the bandwidth challenged here at TMM.

It's video of a young Stevie Wonder and band in the studio recording "Superstition".
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: da gooch on March 11, 2016, 01:20:34 pm
snip-snip
Disclaimer: I have not watched the video as I am one of the bandwidth challenged here at TMM.

It's video of a young Stevie Wonder and band in the studio recording "Superstition".
Thanks again Bill :thumbsup:
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Moonbeam on April 13, 2016, 12:21:26 am
Some good stuff in there, Bill. I have different thoughts on a few things, but I think you and I wholeheartedly agree that the key to freedom is property rights. Or at least we've touched on that before :). I was wondering if you would be kind enough to expound on the following from your article (no "gotcha"/set up behind it - just curious enough to need more info to understand your point):

Quote
There is no such thing as a social contract.

Quote
Prior restraint is plumb out. Though hitting a child with your car may rightly be considered a crime, driving down Main Street past a grade school at 90 mph and not hitting anybody is not a crime, since it has no victim, hence it may not be forbidden.
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on April 13, 2016, 09:25:53 pm
Thanks for your feedback on my little essay.

I was wondering if you would be kind enough to expound on the following from your article (no "gotcha"/set up behind it - just curious enough to need more info to understand your point):

Quote
There is no such thing as a social contract.

I'm referring to my uninformed concept of the social contract, something that supposedly authorizes the government to do things which none of the individuals who supposedly grant it authority may do. I suppose I should read the actual theory of the Social Contract by Jean Jacques Rousseau:

http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon.htm

Quote
Quote
Prior restraint is plumb out. Though hitting a child with your car may rightly be considered a crime, driving down Main Street past a grade school at 90 mph and not hitting anybody is not a crime, since it has no victim, hence it may not be forbidden.

This one mostly comes from reductio ad absurdum. If you allow prior restraint for anything, you open yourself to prior restraint for everything. I suppose it's possible to separate actual endangerment from set limits, but that's not what current statutes do. They make it easy for the enforcers to fine or arrest people, but have very little to do with actual safety. I still prefer severe penalties for actual harm to limitations on perceived precursors to harm.

But the speed limit example is exactly that. Prior restraint of ANYTHING is the problem. If you can drive safely while drunk or stoned, more power to you. If you use LSD as a spiritual aid, or for recreation, go for it. If you safely use guns for hunting, fun, or an emergency tool, I applaud you. Until you actually harm a non-consenting person, it's all good.
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Moonbeam on April 14, 2016, 03:09:08 pm
Thanks for elaborating, Bill. Answering the second question of sorts will help me mull things over! :)
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Splash22 on May 02, 2016, 06:03:36 pm
May I ask Bill, if you are a parent or grandparent?
~S
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 03, 2016, 07:17:09 am
May I ask Bill, if you are a parent or grandparent?
~S

I have two children, 19 & 24. No grandchildren, yet.
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Splash22 on May 03, 2016, 11:32:00 am
May I ask Bill, if you are a parent or grandparent?
~S

I have two children, 19 & 24. No grandchildren, yet.

"There is no magical age at which a child becomes sapient."
My research says differently.

Q. When does the unborn child's heart begin to beat?[/b]

A. A baby's heart begins to beat 18 days from conception, and by 21 days the heart is pumping blood through a closed circulatory system.

Q. When can the unborn child's brain waves be detected?


A. A baby's brainwaves can be detected at 6 weeks from conception.

Property?
To my thinking, property is inanimate; books, car, furniture, tools.

I've often wondered, with the vast array of birth control  devices available that will prevent conception of inconvenient births...why there are so many who choose to use none... but prefer instead, to risk dealing with the trauma of abortion.
I am thankful my children were all wanted , that I never had make that wrenching decision.
 My heart goes out to those  men and women who did.
~S


Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 03, 2016, 02:21:54 pm
I hate to open the abortion can of works again. Been there. Done that. Nobody ever changes their position.

But a cow's or a deer's heart also begins to beat at some time after conception. And they also have brainwaves. Are we to consider it murder to kill and eat cows and deer and snakes and fish? If so, your position is at least consistent. If not, why are humans special?
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: da gooch on May 03, 2016, 10:44:25 pm
I hate to open the abortion can of works again. Been there. Done that. Nobody ever changes their position.

But a cow's or a deer's heart also begins to beat at some time after conception. And they also have brainwaves. Are we to consider it murder to kill and eat cows and deer and snakes and fish? If so, your position is at least consistent. If not, why are humans special?

I Think (talk about a can of worms ...) I think it reduces down to species bigotry and arrogance.

Humans are mammals and no more important to the universe than a rhesus monkey in a jungle tree or a lamb in an abattoir.

The argument that we (humans) "are special" due to some religious connection is hogwash in my opinion.
Religion is a man made structure meant to provide a source of living for a priestly caste.
It is little more than a disguised (and poorly) form of governance which relies upon an unseen and unknowable fulcrum upon which all answers are decided in favor of the unseen and unknowable super being.(the name or identity changes throughout time according to who the Rulers of the day happen to favor)
Each version has its own book of writings that supposedly answers all of the questions of this earthly existence for the faithful. Every time the answer reduces down to believe and the answers will appear.

I am reminded of Mrs Pelosi telling Congress to (I paraphrase) "just vote the bill in and then we can find out what is in it."

Short form ... Humans are Not Special except to themselves. (see note about bigotry and arrogance)
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 04, 2016, 05:48:38 am
I Think (talk about a can of worms ...) I think it reduces down to species bigotry and arrogance.

Interesting opinion. Not what I said in my essay. I believe humans, and likely apes, chimpanzees, whales, and dolphins are special, but not because I share their species, because we are sapient. We can reason about our world, imagine the future, and fear our death, in the absence of an immediate threat. We have a right to life because we can conceive of that idea.

But you're correct that nature doesn't care. Those who are fit enough to handle the life-threatening events in their environment survive. Others don't. No matter what we may think about how it should be. If enough individuals in a species survive long enough to reproduce, the species survives. Nature cares not a whit about any of it. If God exists, ours are Her only hands on Earth.
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Splash22 on May 04, 2016, 06:28:08 pm
My thoughts Bill aren't religious in nature, I don't see animals deliberately killing their young in utero at their most vulnerable.
Arrogance? Indeed agreed, humans are arrogant and think themselves omnipotent to all life.

My disagreement was viewing living fetuses as property, to be disposed of, as old tires.
The "rape, incest, mother's life in danger",  merely got the foot in the door to abominations...Third trimester, post birth abortions, and " choice parts sales".

I don't believe in religion,I don't think the One who set this all up, believes in religion either.
~S
Title: Re: What I Believe
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 05, 2016, 08:40:25 am
My disagreement was viewing living fetuses as property, to be disposed of, as old tires.
The "rape, incest, mother's life in danger",  merely got the foot in the door to abominations...Third trimester, post birth abortions, and " choice parts sales".

A lot of that is my reticence to admit gray areas. Human fetuses become infants become children become adolescents become adults. At some point they pass from animal (food, property) to sapient being with rights. Lots of people want to set that point at conception. I find that absurd. Why not then set it BEFORE conception, and label menstruation as murder of a potential human? So I choose birth, even though I think humans are still basically no more developed than animals at that point.

And then there are the radical vegans, who want to label intentional killing of ANY animal as murder. I eat mostly vegetarian (milk products and occasional fish, but no fowl or mammals), but for spiritual, not philosophical reasons; fowl and mammals bring me down. But if you like eating cow cadavers, go for it.