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Special Interest => Hardyville => Topic started by: Alchemist on March 15, 2005, 07:50:47 pm

Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Alchemist on March 15, 2005, 07:50:47 pm
q
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: mi6a2lm on March 15, 2005, 08:37:04 pm
I completely agree.  However, if one, in a hypothetical world, does decide to follow directions from books with 'cool names', start with very small amounts (in whatever proportions specified) and see what happens.  (The same method can be applied to things that may or may not be safe to ingest.)  
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Ian on March 15, 2005, 09:04:28 pm
I had a chemistry teacher in high school who made a batch of potassium permanganate for a demo. The stuff was REALLY sensitive - a light tap from a yardstick detonated it (complete with loud bang and cloud of purple smoke). I definitely wouldn't try making the stuff in the kitchen.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Desertrat on March 15, 2005, 10:05:56 pm
KMnO4?  Standard high school exercise in precipitation, as I recall. :)  But that was some 55 years ago.

Wet, it's no problem.  Inert in water.  Dry?  Yup.  Whole nuther deal.

Back when Austin, Texas, had street cars and street car tracks running down the main street by the UT campus, chemistry students were wont to put about a teaspoon of this purple goodie on the tracks and let it dry in the sun.  Then a street car would come along and excitement would ensue.

Scotch-tape about a match head sized amount onto a door latch.  Door gets closed; door pops open--loudly.  Fun in the dorm...

Ah, youthful memories!

:D, 'Rat
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Ted Nielsen on March 15, 2005, 10:25:24 pm
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KMnO4?  Standard high school exercise in precipitation, as I recall. :)  But that was some 55 years ago.

Wet, it's no problem.  Inert in water.  Dry?  Yup.  Whole nuther deal.

Back when Austin, Texas, had street cars and street car tracks running down the main street by the UT campus, chemistry students were wont to put about a teaspoon of this purple goodie on the tracks and let it dry in the sun.  Then a street car would come along and excitement would ensue.

Scotch-tape about a match head sized amount onto a door latch.  Door gets closed; door pops open--loudly.  Fun in the dorm...

Ah, youthful memories!

:D, 'Rat
You should be in jail.  B)  
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: sennin on March 15, 2005, 11:55:26 pm
KMnO4 - Antifungal

2 SMALL crystals per gallon HOT water. For external use only. (Soak your feet) For Ringworm (Athletes Foot) foot fungal agents.

One SMALL crystal per 10 gallons hot water for chickens' drinking water. Dilute solution 2:1 for disease prevention in fowl.

One teaspoon in a small, cone shaped pile + ONE drop of glycerin = voluminous clouds of purple "smoke".
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Mr. Bill on March 16, 2005, 12:15:39 pm
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I had a chemistry teacher in high school who made a batch of potassium permanganate for a demo. The stuff was REALLY sensitive - a light tap from a yardstick detonated it (complete with loud bang and cloud of purple smoke)....
Are you sure you guys aren't thinking of nitrogen triiodide (http://www.angelo.edu/faculty/kboudrea/demos/nitrogen_triiodide/nitrogen_triiodide.htm)?

Potassium permanganate is stable unless it comes into contact with organic substances or other easily-oxidized substances.

I had a chemistry teacher in high school who demonstrated the thermite reaction (sometimes erroneously called a "thermite bomb") in the classroom.  Today, no doubt, he'd be arrested for terrorism.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Ian on March 16, 2005, 01:22:11 pm
Whoops - now that you mention it, you're right Mr Bill. It was nitrogen triiodide. Still, I know I've seen KMnO4 used somewhere...
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Ted Nielsen on March 16, 2005, 07:25:30 pm
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Whoops - now that you mention it, you're right Mr Bill. It was nitrogen triiodide. Still, I know I've seen KMnO4 used somewhere...
It's sometimes used to remove iron from water. You can buy it at Sears. It's also an oxidizer as mentioned before.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Desertrat on March 16, 2005, 09:48:41 pm
Oops!  My bad!  My apologies!  Potassium Permanganate is a specific for solving one of the problems a young guy can encouter after messing around with the wrong woman. :)

KI3 -- Potassium Tri-Iodide.  The purple powder of power. :D

Almost as much of a problem as a small chunk of sodium put down a gas tank's filler neck.  Sooner or later it will roll into the condensate in the bottom.  But I wouldn't do something like that.  Too much "To whom it may concern".

I never went to Texas A&M, so I can't be blamed:  Some guy took a chunk of sodium, wrapped in a kerosene-soaked paper towel, and flushed it.  Had A&M been a navy school instead of an army school, the event would have been enshrined as "The Night That A&M Lost Its Head".

Then there was the Aggie who was majoring in Animal Husbandry -- until they caught him at it, one day.

"Tea-sipper"
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Jack Boone on March 16, 2005, 11:38:17 pm
Ah yes.  Potassium permanganate.  Mixed with water---by the professors---at Caltech in 1957 0r 58.  Used cold to make cleaned glassware really clean in qualitative analysis lab.  I was in a downstairs lab--some clown in the lab over our heads decided that if it was used hot on unwashed glassware it would save washing.

It emitted a tremendous boom.  Reinforced concrete ceiling/floor bounced a few inches.  The upstairs lab had an entire bench removed, except for twisted pipes.  The clown who did it had walked away, thereby avoiding certain death.  Ambulance men carried out nearest neighbor, who recovered.  

We never figured out whether it was the heat that did it, or the fact that the glassware was dirty.  Probably a combination.  

Never knew the concentration, but it's scary shit.

I got an A+ in the course by gaming the system.

Jack Boone
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on March 17, 2005, 05:13:25 am
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I had a chemistry teacher in high school who demonstrated the thermite reaction (sometimes erroneously called a "thermite bomb") in the classroom.
Thermite? (http://www.doingfreedom.com/gen/1000/ht.thoroughlythermite.html)
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Desertrat on March 21, 2005, 11:15:24 pm
A buddy of mine was part of a group at Rice University which created "the light brighter than a thousand suns".  They scrounged aluminum and magnesium filings and shavings all over Houston, along with pounds and pounds of lathe turnings and such of iron and steel.

It wound up being about a 55-gallon drum's worth.

1.  Place drum atop nuclear reactor lab in late evening.
2.  Ignite via radio control, after full dark.
3.  See every police and fire switchboard in Houston, Texas, light up and glow.
4.  Do not enjoy the Dean's lecture the next day.

:), 'Rat
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Basil Fishbone on March 22, 2005, 01:17:12 am
There was a guy in my high school class who was into home chemistry, particularly homemade explosives.  This was a bright guy, a concert pianist.  That is he was until he blew his hand(s) to smithereens.  They pieced his hand or hands together after several hours of surgery.

For all the brainpower, his learning curve wasn't any too steep.  He kept at it, until the day he and a couple of friends loaded some explosives into a cylinder of an old engine block.  This time, the problem was a short fuse.  Once again, he spent hours on the operating table as the surgeon attempted to piece his hand back together.  Still, he was luckier than one of the guys, who caught a lethal dose of shrapnel to the head.

Basil
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Bear2 on March 22, 2005, 07:52:39 pm
Warning! Warning! Warning Will Robinson!

Some reactions will not scale 'well'. Less than optimum results include death.
Trying something "in small amounts" before scaling it up will not preclude bad
results. Case in point: making nitroglycerin. Don't do it. (Seriously).

Creating nitro is an "exothermic" reaction. It gives off heat. Heat can set it off.
You may succeed in creating a small amount, and fail completely when scaling
it up because the cooling set up is not adequate to the task.

I've heard - and this may be an urban legend - that some of the 'recipes' in books
like the Anarchist's Cookbook have been intentionally messed with for the purpose
of removing potential anarchists from the population. Permanently. In the case of
nitro, mentioned above, all that need be done is to increase the batch size.

Please don't try this s*** unless you are working with someone competant in chemistry
who can point out the "by the way..." details that will keep you in one piece.

</sermon>

Bear


 
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: NMC_EXP on March 22, 2005, 08:09:05 pm
If you want to make some homemade noisemakers, just go get some black powder, or Pyrodex, or any other commercially made gunpowder, and some cannon fuse. All the finer gun shops carry them.  
They are more stable and therefore safer, and you don't have to risk getting hurt making them.


But there was this remarkable Independance Day celebration I participated in years ago.

It involved a partial case of Dynamite, a derelict farm house, barn and silo (on the property of the master of ceremonies) and a keg of beer.

Wow.....what a party (and we all can still count to ten with our shoes on and we still have binocular vison).  

I'll wager those two girls never hitchhiked again after that.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Alchemist on March 24, 2005, 08:48:12 pm
q
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: NMC_EXP on April 04, 2005, 08:35:37 pm
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That was you?


Nah....I made the whole thing up.  ;)  
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Mutly on June 24, 2005, 01:54:13 pm
Permanganate and glycerol are great fun.  Especially as a chemical starter.  It also makes a nice addition to the stump removing tool box.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: beech_trees on June 24, 2005, 07:14:16 pm
I've been contemplating trying the plaster of paris thermite recipe seen in a back issue of Doing Freedom! ezine. Has anyone here read it/tried it/have any caveats?
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Mutly on June 27, 2005, 07:17:03 am
Never seen that recipe what's in it?

I use steel wool and alumaseal radiator repair.  What I've found works great for the steel wool though is instead of burning it in a pipe I hit it with straight oxy from the welding torch.  
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: beech_trees on June 27, 2005, 08:07:16 am
Claire,

Would i be ok if I post some of the highlights from that article?

Dave
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Bill St. Clair on June 27, 2005, 09:32:43 am
I've been thinking of making my own firecrackers for Independence Day. Never did that before, but aren't they just made out of black powder rolled up in tissue paper, with a fuse sticking out? I remember a roll of cannon fuse in the little gun shop I frequent, and I've got some Triple Se7en. Tissue paper can be had for wrapping presents. Anything I need to be careful of besides limiting the amount of powder in each cracker? Is even talking about this a crime in the United Soviet States of Amerika?
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: debra on June 27, 2005, 09:35:40 am
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Claire,

Would i be ok if I post some of the highlights from that article?

Dave
Sure - just add a link to the original article. Danke!
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Mutly on June 27, 2005, 09:54:47 am
Bill,

Paper is way old school.  Try duct tape...  yep I'm serious.  Take the end and fold it at an angle to make a little "football" shape.  Put powder and fuse in.  Wrap top of football and then a couple of more turns to keep it tight and sealed up.  These work nice because it's fast and also waterproof.  I've used pyrodex and regular black powder, but for real bang titanium flash powder is the best.  Good luck finding perchlorate though... :)  
Old film cannisters work nice also.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Mos2 on June 27, 2005, 10:26:01 am
When I was a kid someone told me about using caps (the paper toy pistol kind) to make firecrackers. Caps were 'legal' but firecrackers weren't in this state. The the trick was to stick a safety pin thru the powder of the first cap in a roll, then continue down the roll accordian-style. Remove the pin and wrap the thing up in tape with a match taped over then end along with a fuse. Good for blowing up model rockets in flight...  

Dangerous though... I had one go off when pulling out the pin... fingers were tingly for hours.  <_<  
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: securitysix on June 27, 2005, 11:54:04 am
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Dangerous though... I had one go off when pulling out the pin... fingers were tingly for hours.  <_<
Not a fun feeling.  Had a Black Cat go off in my had one year and my arm was numb from fingertips to elbow for hours.  It's fine now, but I definitely remember.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Mutly on June 27, 2005, 01:57:48 pm
Always better off making your own.  Then you can be sure of quality control.   :D

 
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: beech_trees on June 27, 2005, 06:53:34 pm
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Quote
Claire,

Would i be ok if I post some of the highlights from that article?

Dave
Sure - just add a link to the original article. Danke!
Thank you

Thoroughly Thermite (http://www.doingfreedom.com/gen/1000/ht.thoroughlythermite.html)

One concern I have is a chemist/explosives expert aquaintence I have (he is a consultant for an alphabet agency, and I can't really quiz him too strenuously) mentioned that powdered aluminum, if ground too fine, can spontaneously combust in the presence of oxygen.

Dave
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Carl Bussjaeger on June 27, 2005, 09:27:12 pm
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...mentioned that powdered aluminum, if ground too fine, can spontaneously combust in the presence of oxygen.
The containers aren't in front of me, but I believe one is 200 mesh and the other 400. None of it has ever spontaneously combusted.
 
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 01, 2005, 10:39:54 pm
Well, I got 10 feet of cannon fuse on Tuesday, and bought some duct tape today (didn't find the roll that I already had until I took the new one downstairs). I made two smallish firecrackers with 3 or 4 inches of fuse, which gave plenty of time to get far away (tried the fuse alone before stuffing it into Triple Se7en). Wasn't very loud, but made a satisfying cloud of smoke and smelled just like the black cat firecrackers I used to set off as a kid. I'll try some bigger ones on Monday.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: rockchucker on July 01, 2005, 11:11:26 pm
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Well, I got 10 feet of cannon fuse on Tuesday, and bought some duct tape today [...] Wasn't very loud, but made a satisfying cloud of smoke and smelled just like the black cat firecrackers I used to set off as a kid.
Yeah, that's my experience with duct-tape based firecrackers. If the point is a bang, remember that confinement is your friend. You might try rolling your own cardboard tubes using the tubes from paper towels or TP. Cut the tube lengthwise first, then experiment with different lengths. Make the tube by wrapping the cardboard around a dowel or rod, gluing as you go, or wrap the tube with tape after you've wound it around your dowel. I suppose any sort of paper would work, as long as you build up enough layers.

I do think that duct tape can work, if you use sufficient wrappings and make sure you have no weak spots. Paper / cardboard seems cheaper and easier to me.

Of course, in keeping with my motto of "Nothing exceeds like excess", I'm now thinking in terms of sonotube.  :ph34r:  :D  
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 02, 2005, 12:37:09 pm
I tried a different design. This time, I folded over a corner of the tape with the sticky-side out, which makes it a lot easier to keep the thing from sticking itself together before you're ready. I used about three times as much powder this time, mostly filling the cone. Then I wrapped it three times, alternating directions. The bang was very satisfying.

My powder scale goes to only 100 grains, so it took two weighings, but the second try at this design, where I covered the sticky outside of the initial cone before pouring in the powder, holds about 170 grains. There's a photo at http://billstclair.com/blog/images/duct-fu...fun-648x486.jpg (http://billstclair.com/blog/images/duct-fun-648x486.jpg) (74K).

I may now be a felon in the state of New York. What else is new?
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: rockchucker on July 02, 2005, 03:09:44 pm
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I tried a different design. This time, I folded over a corner of the tape with the sticky-side out, which makes it a lot easier to keep the thing from sticking itself together before you're ready. I used about three times as much powder this time, mostly filling the cone. Then I wrapped it three times, alternating directions. The bang was very satisfying.

[...]

I may now be a felon in the state of New York. What else is new?
Ah, now I get the idea. I'll have to try that.

These days, how can one know if one is, by the book, a felon?
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on July 02, 2005, 09:07:50 pm
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Quote
[...]

I may now be a felon in the state of New York. What else is new?
Ah, now I get the idea. I'll have to try that.

These days, how can one know if one is, by the book, a felon?
 
Yer still above ground,  and breathing?  :-0
 
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: rockchucker on July 02, 2005, 09:50:46 pm
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Quote
These days, how can one know if one is, by the book, a felon?
 
Yer still above ground,  and breathing?  :-0
Lots of felons in that category. I have a friend who has, on her record, a conviction for felony littering -- federal.

So don't litter in a national park, in view of a park ranger.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: rockchucker on July 02, 2005, 10:26:32 pm
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I tried a different design. This time, I folded over a corner of the tape with the sticky-side out, which makes it a lot easier to keep the thing from sticking itself together before you're ready.
Alright, I thought I had a good mental picture of this process. Alas, examination of the sequence in my head leaves me thinking I'm missing something obvious.

Are you folding the tape in the manner of the 'proper' method of folding the U.S. flag, after the lengthwise folds are done? IOW, start by folding the end corner over to the opposite side, forming a triangle half the size of the width of the tape as a square? Ah, then the next after that, along the bottom edge of the triangle, forms the pocket. Hmmm. Seems that even with multiple wraps -- repeating folding it over, the corners could still leak pressure. But is this how you're doing it?
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on July 02, 2005, 11:57:39 pm
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Quote
Quote
These days, how can one know if one is, by the book, a felon?
 
Yer still above ground,  and breathing?  :-0
Lots of felons in that category. I have a friend who has, on her record, a conviction for felony littering -- federal.

So don't litter in a national park, in view of a park ranger.
I don't litter,  period,  but that just makes my point -- it ain't all that hard these days,  the way they keep on elevating things to the level of "felony",  to find one's self in that category.  I've managed to avoid that so far,  but then I don't go out much either.  :-0
 
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 03, 2005, 06:05:14 am
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Quote
I tried a different design. This time, I folded over a corner of the tape with the sticky-side out, which makes it a lot easier to keep the thing from sticking itself together before you're ready.
Alright, I thought I had a good mental picture of this process. Alas, examination of the sequence in my head leaves me thinking I'm missing something obvious.

Are you folding the tape in the manner of the 'proper' method of folding the U.S. flag, after the lengthwise folds are done? IOW, start by folding the end corner over to the opposite side, forming a triangle half the size of the width of the tape as a square? Ah, then the next after that, along the bottom edge of the triangle, forms the pocket. Hmmm. Seems that even with multiple wraps -- repeating folding it over, the corners could still leak pressure. But is this how you're doing it?
Not quite how you fold a flag. A flag is folded at a 45 degree angle. I'm drawing the free end up the tape a little more than that, which makes a sharper point at the tip of the cone. You need a small piece of tape over the tip to keep it from leaking. The tab that you can see sticking out at the top of the cone folds over the top with the fuse sticking out beside it. The first wrap goes parallel to the flap with the tip of the cone in its middle at the bottom. The second wrap is perpendicular to the first, and the third wrap is the same as the first. You're right that this square packet can leak pressure at the corners, but with 170 grains of Triple Se7en, it made a noticeable bang. My daughter and I stood about 20 feet away. I was surprised by how loud it was. My daughter said that she wished she had put her fingers in her ears.

You could do a diagonal wrap around the upper corner that doesn't have the fuse sticking out, and then a half wrap of the remaining bottom corner.  I'll try this next time and see if it gets even louder.

I suppose you could fold the fuse down to enable wrapping the corner it comes out of, but then the fuse would be touching the side of the packet and the burn would likely weaken that side, possibly even causing premature ignition, which would be dangerous.
Title: Do NOT Do That!
Post by: Mutly on July 06, 2005, 10:25:39 am
Heh....   Sounds like you're off to a fine start with the duct tape crackers.  

rockchucker-- Yeah I used to make them that way.  Wrap old paper around a dowel for 15-20 wraps.  Glue piece of dowel in end.  Fill with powder.  Glue other dowel in with fuse.  Twist a bit of wire around the middle good and tight to increase pressure.  Worked fairly well, just took a long time, that's when I switched to duct tape...


Now for some flash powder....  A little perchlorate.  A dash of titanium fillings.  Some charcoal dust.....  Now that's a bang.  Just remember not to insult it.  

How's about that hefty lawn and garden bag filled from the welding torch???

Repeat after me.... "Minimum safe distance"  Especially for the kiddies.

This was a fine year for teaching the youngens about dry ice in plastic bottles.
:)