The Mental Militia Forums

Special Interest => Gulching/Self-Sufficiency => FSW => Topic started by: rockchucker on December 07, 2005, 09:45:17 pm

Title: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: rockchucker on December 07, 2005, 09:45:17 pm
This is one of two things which give me reservations about Wyoming. Chilled to the bone (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2005/12/07/news/wyoming/c8838e778ff6503c872570d000683f01.txt)
Quote
[...] Today across Wyoming temperatures should remain in the single digits.

That should feel tropical compared to Wednesday and Thursday mornings in places such as Big Piney and Jackson, where temperatures were expected to be about minus 24, possibly breaking state records.

[...]

The state's coldest areas through today and into Thursday are expected to be in northwest Wyoming. Yellowstone Lake is likely to see minus 32. Casper should see minus 16 in the morning hours, with similar temperatures in Riverton, Rock Springs and Greybull.

Casper's record low for Dec. 7 is minus 18, set in 1972. Big Piney was minus 28 in 1978, and Jackson was minus 20 in 1984.
Although, I was out in the cold today. Temps in the Denver area have been hovering around zero (+/- 5 (F)) today, depending on where you are in the metro area. And I was out setting up saws/tools in a driveway, and doing a few cuts. Also packing material out of the van and into the customer's house. Really, it wasn't that bad -- I suppose because the sun was out, and it wasn't windy. Had it been damp, I'd've been miserable though. Still, I'd rather not deal with these sort of temperatures.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on December 08, 2005, 01:46:52 am
Yeah,  I have a friend who lives in NE CO,  way up there,  and he sent me a little chart,  with some assorted figures on it regarding the weather there in the past day or two.  There's really only one word to describe the drop shown in the chart,  and that's precipitous!  Jeez!

Yeah,  kinda tends to put me off a bit,  that does.  And he's talking about moving back to Wyoming,  where he's from originally.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: H.M. WoggleBug, T.E. on December 08, 2005, 09:00:06 pm
Well, to be fair. Here in the Free State of New Hampshire, my thermometer currently says "11". Tomorrow, we get the same storm that Wyoming got.

Driving to work will be interesting.

'Bug
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: penguinsscareme on December 08, 2005, 09:25:35 pm
We're hunkered down, 'Bug.  Stay safe.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: velojym on December 08, 2005, 09:33:33 pm
Oh, the HUMANITY!!!! It was, like, 28F this morning and there was FROST on my windshield!!!!
*sigh* however will we get by?
 :wacko:
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: mi6a2lm on December 09, 2005, 01:16:45 am
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8932/image24hn.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Bill St. Clair on December 09, 2005, 06:01:07 am
Quote
Casper's record low for Dec. 7 is minus 18, set in 1972. Big Piney was minus 28 in 1978, and Jackson was minus 20 in 1984.
Although, I was out in the cold today. Temps in the Denver area have been hovering around zero (+/- 5 (F)) today, depending on where you are in the metro area. And I was out setting up saws/tools in a driveway, and doing a few cuts. Also packing material out of the van and into the customer's house. Really, it wasn't that bad -- I suppose because the sun was out, and it wasn't windy. Had it been damp, I'd've been miserable though. Still, I'd rather not deal with these sort of temperatures.

But it's never damp in Wyoming. Sure, there are thunder storms in the summertime, but in the winter, humidity hovers around 10%, if that, and precipitiation arrives as snow, which is usually so dry and powdery that you can't make snowballs with it. Good for skiing, though. You need chap stick to keep your lips from splitting. The low humidity makes the cold, and the summer heat, a lot easier to bear. It also enhances solar heating, so though it goes down into the teens most nights, it usually warms into the twenties or thirties during the day.

My Wyoming experience was in Cheyenne, the southeast corner of the state, where I grew up. Your mileage may vary in other regions.

New England weather, with its high humidity, seems both colder and hotter, to me, than Wyoming.

Wind chill is bad, though. The wind doesn't blow in Wyoming. It sucks.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: H.M. WoggleBug, T.E. on December 09, 2005, 08:04:14 am
Quote
New England weather, with its high humidity, seems both colder and hotter, to me, than Wyoming.

OK, if you say so.

Right now, I can't go to work because my wife hid my car keys. Crap! I LIKE driving around in these conditions. Maxing out my 4WD short wheel base XTerra & sliding around and stuff!

Currently we have 8" on the ground with another foot expected (!).

My son will experience the thrill of shoveling snow in spades.

So to speak.

The idiots on the local TV stations are all excited and picking up snow and showing it on camera and generally acting like they've never seen frozen water falling from the sky.


'Bug
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Joel on December 09, 2005, 09:05:22 am
Omigod, I like had to wear a jacket this morning, because like the temperature was in the sixties, okay?  And it like rained a little last night and now, omigod, I've like got to wash my car...
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: debra on December 09, 2005, 09:27:07 am
Bite me, John.

The other morning I had to use a hair dryer on the latch of my front door. It had frozen shut. :P
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: lewlew on December 09, 2005, 09:42:44 am
It's balmy here.  I think it was about 20 degrees when I went walking this morning. 
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Ted Nielsen on December 09, 2005, 10:18:09 am
There's a heat wave where I live in Montana. Today it was +14 yesterday it was -14 and Tuesday morning the low was -24. Might even see 20 - 25  today. I walked to work without a jacket this morning.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: H.M. WoggleBug, T.E. on December 09, 2005, 06:32:13 pm
8" of snow here today. Son is starting to dislike snow shoveling - but he can't go to karate tomorrow if I can't get out the driveway (which is 75 meters long :)  )

Temp is 24 right now. Inside it's 68. I am drinking an iced alcoholic beverage.

What's not to like about Winter?

'Bug
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: starborn on December 09, 2005, 07:05:18 pm
What's not to like about Winter?

The bugs go away?   ^_^

Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Lotus Jack on December 09, 2005, 09:12:57 pm
As a Wyoming resident, I can say with some certainty that yes, it is a bit nippy out.
I'm about 60 miles S of Jackson and it was a brisk -31 yesterday morning. Warmed up to a -5 during the day. Some fools were out laying a subfloor on a new house down the road. I truly have no idea
how they were able to work.

I went out to feed the horses for about 5 minutes and damn near froze my ass off. BTW, the horses are just fine being in an open field in that temp.  They all had a fine coating of frost on their hair and icicles off their nostrils. Of course their hair is about an inch and a half long and VERY thick.

It is nice though.


Jack
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on December 09, 2005, 11:40:47 pm
Bite me, John.

The other morning I had to use a hair dryer on the latch of my front door. It had frozen shut. :P

Uh,  you keep a hair dryer handy on your porch?  Or did you see that one coming...?
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: debra on December 11, 2005, 10:32:12 am
No, keep it in the bathroom and drag it out when I need to escape. I was frozen IN, not out! :P
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: velojym on December 12, 2005, 12:10:37 pm
I took the garbage out last night, looked at the stars for a bit, but came in when my legs started feeling goose-bumpy. Maybe shorts weren't the best thing to wear, but I was close to the house.
Will it ever END???!?!?
 :wacko:

(note to self... don't be an ass... or I'll get frozen in too.)
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: TryingToBeUseful on December 22, 2005, 04:34:42 pm
Sure warm now, though.

I'd move to Antarctica if I thought I could live free and prosperous there.  Who cares about weather?  Not me.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Scarmiglione' on January 03, 2006, 02:10:24 pm
Currently it is 79 degrees here in north Texas.


We're going to die in July.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Danl on January 05, 2006, 10:00:21 pm
Sure warm now, though.

I'd move to Antarctica if I thought I could live free and prosperous there.  Who cares about weather?  Not me.

Yup, I agree.....  Danl
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: BeenAround on January 15, 2006, 11:00:50 pm
It's 10:53pm and a nice 54 degrees.Think I'm going to hate summer.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: penguinsscareme on January 18, 2006, 10:04:55 am
Three nights ago it was about seven below zero, bone dry and dead still.  Now it's 56, very windy and pouring rain -- flood warnings for our area, hopefully not as bad as the killer flooding we got in October.

Wicked b'zah, as we say in these parts.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Boston T. Party on January 21, 2006, 08:02:49 pm
"We do not expect to be transported from despotism to liberty on a featherbed."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

Yes, winter in the Rockies can be arduous, but there's
something to be said for "the strenuous life."

Besides, California, Florida, and Hawaii are all taken.

If freedom is important enough, one may simply wear a coat.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: rockchucker on January 21, 2006, 08:46:44 pm
If freedom is important enough, one may simply wear a coat.

Touché, Boston.

I'm still thinking about Wyoming. But I'm also mindful of your own advice in Molon Labe, that Wyoming isn't for everybody -- I don't recall exactly how you put it in a few different spots, but you do talk about the weather, among other things.

I struggle a lot with philosophical quandries and ideal vs. practical answers. There are always compromises. I ask myself, "What good is it to have a little more freedom, if it's too cold to enjoy it?" (Or "I'm too broke/tired/whatever ...") For example, one of my goals this year is to become a more proficient rifleman. Well, I can't afford it right now. What compromises do I make in order to get the money together to buy a DCM Garand and feed it a steady diet? (I'm omitting several details here, obviously.)

OTOH, I've proven to myself time and again that I will push on through whatever, when it comes down to it, once I'm in a given situation.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Boston T. Party on January 21, 2006, 09:25:21 pm
I forgot to clarify one important thing:  not all of Wyoming is as cold
as NW corner of Yellowstone and Jackson!  There are 3 significant
microclimates:  Big Horn basin, Wind River basin, and Crook County.
These areas have quite modest winters for the latitude.

rockchucker wrote:
Quote
For example, one of my goals this year is to become a more proficient rifleman. Well, I can't afford it right now. What compromises do I make in order to get the money together to buy a DCM Garand and feed it a steady diet?
A fine rifle at a bargain price ($450, right?), but ammo is not cheap
as the surplus supply has dried up.  Consider a $500 FAL and 16 cent
.308 ammo.  Even a surplus bolt gun can be used to learn the basics.

Go to http://www.rwva.org and get Fred's targets/etc.

And then join us in Wyoming for the FSW's 3rd Annual Jamboree in
conjunction with Fred!  TBA by next month on:

http://www.freestatewyoming.org

Boston

Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: rockchucker on January 21, 2006, 11:48:15 pm
I forgot to clarify one important thing:  not all of Wyoming is as cold as NW corner of Yellowstone and Jackson!  There are 3 significant microclimates:  Big Horn basin, Wind River basin, and Crook County.These areas have quite modest winters for the latitude.

I do recall your mentioning that someplace. Fully cognizant of Richard Bach's "Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours", I note that according to the U.S. Census Bureau for Crook County:
Quote
Private nonfarm establishments with paid employees, 2001 ... 195
Big Horn and Hot Springs Counties are no better. I imagine that most who relocate are in the "bring your own job with you" category. Even Laramie county shows only 2,350 employers, and Natrona 2,644. Well, my guess is I'd have to move to Cheyenne, Laramie, or Casper to have much hope of finding a job, and it'd be a much tougher time doing so for me than it is down here in the Denver metro area. I do recall reading, a while back, about a boom over in the Green River / Rock Springs area though.

This is getting pretty far into topic drift, but the Wind River area ... recently either the Rocky Mountain News or the Denver Post ran a feature article on the meth problems on the reservation. I wonder to what extent the crime associated with drug trafficking has spread outside the reservation.

Quote
rockchucker wrote:
Quote
For example, one of my goals this year is to become a more proficient rifleman. Well, I can't afford it right now. What compromises do I make in order to get the money together to buy a DCM Garand and feed it a steady diet?
A fine rifle at a bargain price ($450, right?), but ammo is not cheap as the surplus supply has dried up.  Consider a $500 FAL and 16 cent .308 ammo.  Even a surplus bolt gun can be used to learn the basics.

Go to http://www.rwva.org and get Fred's targets/etc.

And then join us in Wyoming for the FSW's 3rd Annual Jamboree in
conjunction with Fred!  TBA by next month on:

http://www.freestatewyoming.org


Depends upon what quality you're willing to settle for. "Service Grade" can be had for $395 -- they're still within Army issue specs, but might have some throat and/or muzzle erosion. ODCMP Garand Rifles (http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm)

I'd love to get a FAL, or build one. But a couple of friends have Garands, which I've shot. I just like that rifle. Better than the JLD PTR91 which I've also shot. Can't really say, in objective terms why I like it. But it works for me.

Ammo price is a good point. I used to handload, and will again soon. But pulling that lever several thousand times is expensive in time, and I haven't looked at prices on 30-06 brass.

I'm familiar with Fred's reduced size targets (meaning I've heard about them, and his course of fire, but not used them). I think I can get the same effect by downloading from targetz.com, and then reducing those in size. Not that Fred's are expensive to order.

I'll keep my eyes open for the Jamboree announcement.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Bill St. Clair on January 22, 2006, 06:37:54 am
Big Horn and Hot Springs Counties are no better. I imagine that most who relocate are in the "bring your own job with you" category. Even Laramie county shows only 2,350 employers, and Natrona 2,644. Well, my guess is I'd have to move to Cheyenne, Laramie, or Casper to have much hope of finding a job, and it'd be a much tougher time doing so for me than it is down here in the Denver metro area. I do recall reading, a while back, about a boom over in the Green River / Rock Springs area though.

I'd have the same problem. My thinking at present is that I'd have to live in Cheyenne or Laramie and work in Fort Collins, unless my friend at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie) can get me a job there. But I wouldn't be doing the free state project much good in Laramie (city of Cheyenne) or Albany (city of Laramie) county.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: enemyofthestate on January 22, 2006, 09:39:14 am
I'd have the same problem. My thinking at present is that I'd have to live in Cheyenne or Laramie and work in Fort Collins, unless my friend at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie) can get me a job there. But I wouldn't be doing the free state project much good in Laramie (city of Cheyenne) or Albany (city of Laramie) county.

I don't know about Wyoming but in some states if you own property in a county or city you can vote there in local elections.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: rockchucker on January 22, 2006, 10:36:34 am
I'd have the same problem. My thinking at present is that I'd have to live in Cheyenne or Laramie and work in Fort Collins, unless my friend at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie) can get me a job there. But I wouldn't be doing the free state project much good in Laramie (city of Cheyenne) or Albany (city of Laramie) county.

Boston addresses this in Molon Labe. Whether it constitutes election fraud under Wyoming laws, I don't know. But you can live/work in Cheyenne, but "move" to e.g. Weston County by "renting" a room from another FSW resident, and establishing that as your residence. Actually, I'm not sure that was exactly what he was describing, but it could work.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Boston T. Party on January 22, 2006, 11:58:37 am
Because of its sparse population, it is more difficult to find a job
in Wyoming--that's the trade-off for our increased political leverage
in a sparsely populated state.  As described in Molôn Labé!
the earliest wave of relocators would necessarily be self-employed,
entrepreneurs, and business owners.  Their commerical activities
will help us to "bootstrap" ourselves.

On this note, here's what I recently posted in our FSW Forum,
which will be up for the public this month:

Jobs, Business Opportunities and Employee Recruitment
Quote
I can't say anything else about this at the moment, but a very exciting company owned by libertarian partners will be setting up their new facilities in Wyoming this year.  They will purchase quite a bit of land, and will need highly skilled folks in their employ.

As soon as I have the word from them, I'll annouce all the details here.

Meanwhile, trust me on the fact that this company will be making headline news over the next 5 years with their products!
[/size]


Regarding working in Cheyenne with a voting residence in another county, this should
be possible.  On our forum we will research this fully and post the details.

rockchucker, if the M1 resonates with you that well, then by all means get one.
Stock up on the clips, which have risen in price, and scour Shotgun News for
deals on surplus ammo (20-25 cents/round).

Better yet, save up for an M1A (choose one in serial # range 20,000-130,000)
or Chinese M14S (with Smith Enterprise heat treat, Wilson barrel, U.S. bolt).
Same ergonomics, better gas system, 20rd mags, and .308.
Throw on a 2-7x Burris handgun scope with BallisticPlex reticle,
and you'd own it all, from CQB to 500yds.

Boston
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: rockchucker on January 22, 2006, 03:02:27 pm
rockchucker, if the M1 resonates with you that well, then by all means get one. Stock up on the clips, which have risen in price, and scour Shotgun News for deals on surplus ammo (20-25 cents/round).

Yep, that's what I'm gonna do. There are a few things in front of that, such as moving, and getting a better paying job. This year though. Unless things unexpectedly go south on me.

Quote
Better yet, save up for an M1A (choose one in serial # range 20,000-130,000) or Chinese M14S (with Smith Enterprise heat treat, Wilson barrel, U.S. bolt). Same ergonomics, better gas system, 20rd mags, and .308. Throw on a 2-7x Burris handgun scope with BallisticPlex reticle,
and you'd own it all, from CQB to 500yds.

I fondled the Springfield SOCOM II at the last gun show.

/me wantsssss one of thosssssse too ... preciousssssss

The Burris is a nice scope, for sure. I'd be tempted to get the Ballistic Mil-dot reticle though -- except it doesn't seem to be available in that scope (at least not from Midway -- don't see it listed on the Burris site either).

We've had a discussion on the ChiComm M14S (http://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=7755). I guess I'll have to look up / add up the numbers. But a quick look at that thread indicates $1100 - $1700 depending on what price you can find on the M14S.

I'm looking forward to seeing that forum.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: Boston T. Party on January 22, 2006, 09:47:30 pm
The Mil-Dot is a sniper's reticle, and quite impractical for a general purpose rifle.
You want reticular holdovers, not knob-twiddling (not even as little as on IORs).
Go Shepherd or Burris BallisticPlex.

The SOCOM is a late model SA rifle (with it attendant lower quality), and its
barrel is only 16" (velocity loss and excessive blast) when it should have been 18".
In this case, less is...less.

I'll check out the Chinese M14 thread.  The rifle is $500-700, and the Smith mods
(w/o Wilson barrel) are $580 last time I checked.  $1080-1280 for a forged M14!

Boston
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: rockchucker on January 22, 2006, 10:21:56 pm
The Mil-Dot is a sniper's reticle, and quite impractical for a general purpose rifle.
You want reticular holdovers, not knob-twiddling (not even as little as on IORs).
Go Shepherd or Burris BallisticPlex.

But I like to twiddle knobs. ;D

The Ballistic Mil-Dot (http://www.burrisoptics.com/reticles.html) keeps the (gotta be a word for them things, stadia?) markings on the lower crosshair for holdovers, and puts mil. dots on the other three. That sounds to me (and I admit I'm no authority) to combine the best of both. Ignore the mil. dots when you aren't using them, but they're there if you want to.

Quote
The SOCOM is a late model SA rifle (with it attendant lower quality), and its
barrel is only 16" (velocity loss and excessive blast) when it should have been 18".
In this case, less is...less.

Yeah, I thought the barrel length was too short too. I admit that the main attraction for me is that it's yet another rifle that gets the gun-ban bigots' knickers in a twist. That's really the main attraction for me for any EBR. Is the quality issue mainly to do with a switch to cast receivers?

Update: Oh, BTW, I'll be reading the Gun Bible as soon as it arrives from Loompanics, so don't feel as if you need to repeat what you've already written in there on my account.
Title: Re: Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Post by: azcoyote on April 24, 2006, 01:30:45 am
Think you guys have gotten into a gun thing here and not on topic--but Boston's Gun Bible is next on my reading list, so maybe I'll let ya slide.

Somebody mentioned Antarctica, well I spent a year there courtesy of the USN, at McMurdo, Yes, it's the coldest, driest, windiest place on earth but it is also absolutely the most pristine and beautiful (in it's way) place I've ever been. Yes, it was psychologically diffiicult--I drank a lot as did many folks, there was nothing else to do. But I came off the Ice a different, and better person. My sister notice a big change in me. A writer described Antarctica this way: because it has no life of it's own, it's a mirror that only relects back at you what you bring to it. It's like a cold forge that still tempers you to your highest tensile strength. Or you're brittle and break. Even in a "city" like McMurdo, that continent can kill you in a heart beat--about 6 died while I was there. I've never been able to  truly describe how Antarctica  effected me. I just know it really changed me forever.

So, when you talk about the cold in Wyoming, while I live in Arizona with the mild winters, I see it as a challenge to maybe temper me even more. TANSTAAFL.

Coyote