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[anachronism]

I took my elderly mother to Sears yesterday. She needs a TV, and they were having a "sale". We make our selection, I signal for the clerk, and we proceed to check out. Clerk: "We need your phone number please", Me: "You don't need my phone number to sell me a TV". Clerk: "We need your phone number & address or our computer won't let us even start a ticket". Me: "You don't need any of that information to sell us a TV". Clerk (getting anxious): "It's for the warranty". Me: "the warranty is a separate issue, and is between me and the manufacturer, you don't need any of that information". So our intrepid young clerk runs off to find a Manager. Manager walks up: "We need your information to write up the sale, our computer won't allow us to start a ticket without it". Me: "Then we're done here, c'mon Mom". We head for the escalator with the manager yapping at our heels like a cocker spaniel, offering to take any address we give him. My reply? "No, we're done here". The Manager still followed us all the way to the escalator, and wished us a "nice day". Guess what the hot topic will be at the next Managers meeting?

[Pagan]

Good for you, anachronism. I've had that conversation myself at Wal-Mart and Best Buy. I told one fellow he should feed better information into his computer, and maybe it would accept me without a phone number; mine is unlisted.

Oddly enough no one at a local store ever objects when I refuse.

[Bill St. Clair]

555-1212, One Main Street

[Claire]

555-1212, One Main Street

In the rare circumstance where you MUST give an address or be denied some vital service (e.g. emergency medical care), I agree with Bill. Monkeywrench. But when you've got a choice of vendors, I totally applaud anachronism's solution.

To give false information is still to acknowledge the authority of a stupid system. Good for you for walking out and letting them know why, anachronism.

I know more and more stores are asking for snoopy info up-front. But I've never heard of one yet that literally couldn't "start a ticket" without violating privacy. I hope about a million more folks walk out of Sears if that's what they're doing.

Claire

[Joel]

I remember Radio Shack trying this shit, several years ago.  I walked out of store after store; each told me they had a new system and couldn't ring up my order without contact info.  Finally I found a store clerk who just shrugged and did something - probably just made up a phone number.  Eventually they changed the software; I gather I wasn't the only one who told them to stick it.

[dgg9]

I know more and more stores are asking for snoopy info up-front. But I've never heard of one yet that literally couldn't "start a ticket" without violating privacy.

The problem is that a lot of the cash register software requires a phone number or address, and the clerk is robotically demanding one.  This happened to me when I walked into Supercuts of all places.  And places like Radio Shack want name and address for a $2 cable.  Sure, you refuse, but it's just tiresome to fight such a petty battle daily.

Once again it's a "banality of evil" thing: an intrusion set up by a software writer and then being pushed by clerks who completely don't care.  It's amazing how much the actual front lines of the anti-privacy war is being fought by the completely indifferent: clerks, petty bureaucrats, phone-order takers, and the like.

[Pagan]

dgg9

It's amazing how much the actual front lines of the anti-privacy war is being fought by the completely indifferent: clerks, petty bureaucrats, phone-order takers, and the like.

And it all comes down to "I'm just doing my job." What adds insult to injury is the clerks frequently ask you to state your phone number right out loud for anyone else to hear and use.

The manager is the one who can't afford to be indifferent; HE is the one who needs to know that a sale has been lost because of poor policy, privacy invasion, or whatever the cause.
But the buck stops there. There was a time when you could write to the CEO and tell him his company had lost a sale; now it’s hard to find the name or address of a CEO, and harder still to reach him -- by phone, e-mail or letter.

Re starting a ticket: when the computer goes down, all business stops. I know a store (Wal-Mart again; no more business there!) who gathered up their customers and shooed them out the door because they couldn't conduct business without the computers.

[dgg9]

The manager is the one who can't afford to be indifferent; HE is the one who needs to know that a sale has been lost because of poor policy, privacy invasion, or whatever the cause.

True, but even here, the second battle line is semi-indifferent, since they're often just non-policy-setting franchise managers, not owners, and privacy-insisting people are in the minority.  The person who would actually care about my lost business is often miles away from the action.

And if it's some governmental agency, there's not even the mild profit motive to appeal to.

So you have a thankless daily skirmish against someone who couldn't possibly be more indifferent.

[Roy J. Tellason]

I had a friend who was a manager of a radio shack store,  and it isn't their idea -- it comes from further on up the chain.  He was actually managing a bigger store (they have different levels) and got _demoted_ back to assistant manager at a smaller store because of _two_ slips that didn't have the info on them.

And the reason was obvious.  Way back when I found it convenient to give them a fair amount of business for small parts,  and at that time they knew me,  and I didn't even have to give them the info. And after a while I'd start getting these sales flyers in the mail...

That's what it's all about.  Not "a decision by some software writer",  who after all is putting into that code what they're told to.  A decision by somewhere fairly high up the chain,  in the name of _marketing_.  And those folks need to take a hard look at the book I point to on my home page,  here.  My page also gets into the cluelessness of BigCorps in other respects,  including Verizon,  who I'm using for connectivity and who's hosting the page,  and who seems to think that they can insist on a bunch of things that I don't particularly want any part of,  like talking to machines,  dong things over the phone (which means at _their_ convenience rather than mine) instead of email,  and so forth.

BigCorps have been trying their damndest to push people around for the longest time.  I like to push back whenever I can.  :-)

[Roy J. Tellason]

One more thought:  How about "I don't have a phone."...?

No law says that you have to.  :-)

[Evil Twin]

Yeah, I tend to choose my battles.  When they ask for a phone number or any info, I just give them some bogus info.  No need to stress about it or make a scene, just make some stuff up.  What are they gonna do?

[Scarmiglione']

I push it back onto the clerk.

"Phone number?"

"No."

And then I don't say anything.  Nothing.  I let *them* figure it out.  I don't move, I don't offer to leave.  I put the ball completely in their court to figure out how to fix the problem.

99% of the time they figure it out.

[hypoluxo]

I am a fan of 555-1212 also.  In the days of 411, most of the kids working at Best Buy do not know what that number is for.  It is humorous to give them that number and watch their eyes when a list of 100 names scrolls on their screen (apparently, I am not the only one with that idea!).  I spy the screen and pick a name.  Easy, painless.  Not monkeywrenching in it's best form, but good enough.  I think the store gets the message either way.

[Tom P.]

just have them dial eight six seven five three oh niiieiiinneee

Phone companies dont use that number because of the song, so just throw on a random area code and say 867-5309 with a straight face. Nobody ever gets it.

[Nacho Libra]

One more thought:  How about "I don't have a phone."...?

No law says that you have to.  :-)

Not yet anyway.