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Author Topic: Construction types/techniques  (Read 12465 times)

Ted Nielsen

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2006, 07:56:31 am »

My monolithic house has 5000 square feet of floorspace including the integral garage, and we used 165 yards of concrete for the shell, floor, and footers.

The biggest problem with all of these alternate construction methods is that banks hate them, as there are no comparables for basing valuations on.  Therefore, they don't want to lend you money for them.  They are worried about what they could get for the house if they had to foreclose, or even worse, have to complete an unfinished construction. 

Are you happy with your monolithic? My plans include building one... someday.
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J13

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2006, 01:22:13 pm »

thank you all for the generous replies and quality information

i've pretty much made up my mind about the type of construction im going to go with - an earth bermed thin shell concrete dome. mostly because of how it can be constructed - i can get the foundation and footers poured by a pro, then i can do the vast majority of the shotcrete and interior myself as funds become available, thereby saving myself the chore and struggle of finding financing, as well as the payments that go with it all...

thanks for those sites rarick, am looking at them now

am thinking of some stout (concrete and steel?) shutters for the doors and windows to provide security while im away as well as for a SHTF scenario and an interior filtration and overpressure system - any more ideas in this vein? would love to hear if im missing anything... a secure room seems a little redundant if i proceed with the shutters, am i incorrect for thinking thusly?

again, thank you all
J
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ripsnort

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2006, 08:34:37 pm »

J13, Building a substantial good size building by your self or even with one or two other people is a major undertaking - time and $$$.  Things tend to take more time and $$$ than planned and you lose time to the weather.  Difficult to do part time.  And if its not finished enough to live in, you are still paying taxes on it.  Did you recheck your figures for
"a total of 3334yd^3 for a total price of 316,730. for the concrete alone"?
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J13

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2006, 10:19:38 pm »

i certainly did redo my math - four times and got a different result each time then waited a few days and called nestegg and spoke with them they told me that for a 40' dome im looking at 40-45 yd3 of concrete

i understand about doing it part-time - seems like that way is in some respects the most difficult way to do anything, yet the most rewarding...

what i would do is to either do the shotcrete as money allows or save up and do it all at once - the architect i was speaking to told me that a decent company would do it all in a day on a 40' dome, he went on to say that the domes go up remarkably fast and that the majority of the time spent on them is inside doing all of the finishing work - i can handle finishing it off myself....

im of 2 minds regarding the how and the where, but not the what or why

J
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Rarick

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2006, 10:56:15 pm »

Plan on doing the dome all in one day yourself, at least for the concrete.  I know concrete needs to go in in a single pour so that it is solid. If the concrete goes in too slow it will "fault" and you lose the strength of the solid foundation.  Shotcrete may be the same. The rest would probably be stageable.  One day would probably save you on rental for the mixer/sprayer or other stuff you might need.

Let us know how it goes, it would be an interesting thing to learn from a source other than the company site.
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

J13

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2006, 05:38:04 am »

ya'll can count on me sharing the process - tho it may take a while to get started, will be doing this after im debt free, ive still got about 6.5k$ to go just yet....

between now and then im planning to get the design set or nearly so, finishes/overlays for what little will be exposed decided upon, and perhaps procurement of things like tankless h2o heater, stovetop, fuel storage tanks ect...

also need to do more research about security systems, defensive perimeters, high security but aesthetically pleasing fencing, ect - in that vein ive ordered the book Patriots (and others) and have spent many hours surfing...i'de love to hear ideas about this type of stuff

what ide love to be able to do is just send a .dwg file and pictures of the lot to nestegg and say "this is what i want and where i want it - how much?" but everyone has their own processes for things

the gentleman i spoke to at nestegg had said that he was on a shotcrete industry board and told me that shotcrete was immune to the "fault" problem that you mentioned Rarick, but with anything im going to have to research  that statement - for the $$$ vs. the time to call a few concrete experts and ask them its a no-brainer
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JOROWA

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2006, 10:43:05 am »

Shotcrete must be applied in successive layers on larger domes.  If it is sprayed on all at once it falls down.  Because it is sprayed inside the airform, the high humidity keeps the concrete green enough to merge well with successive layers.  That said, it should be sprayed on successive days.

These buildings are airtight and require forced ventilation.  These guys http://www.ultimateair.com/ build an energy recovery ventilator that has HEPA filter options and positive pressure control options. We also have a CO2 sensor tied into the control system. 

The monolithic buildings take weeks, not days to build.  Ours took a month to layout and pour the foundation with all of the utilities.  A week to mount the airform.  A week to foam.  It took 8 guys 3 weeks to tie up all of the rebar before shotcreting.  About a week to shotcrete.  Then weeks to deal with all of the openings.  Followed by an eternity of finish work.

Ours is still under construction, but should be done in the next month or so.  Finish work takes forever. 

The house has been blower tested and has a net leak area of only 30 square inches, which is extremely small.  The 350 tons of thermal mass in the house has maintained a range of 72 to 82 degrees between March and September with no HVAC running, when we have had temperature ranges from 40 to 100 degrees during that time period. 

A dehumidifier is required to handle all of the ongoing water vapor outgassing from all that curing concrete for quite some time.  We're still getting significant water vapor after about ten months since shotcreting. 

The house is very secure, and very energy efficient.  The round shapes also does a great job of distributing light without glare, and has exceptional air circulation within the house. 

We're very happy with the result, except, as in all custom houses, we're way over budget.
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Rarick

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2006, 12:04:57 am »

Cool, A new wrinkle to remember.  I was wondering if the 2 different methods required different "pour" techniques.  only a cubic yard of air leakage a day!  That would make a great outer layer for the NBC shelter as well.  The house filters keep out the vast majority of stuff so the NBC shelter filters last many times longer. an extremely low chance of anything sneaking in on you too.

Dome look better and better as I learn more and more.

Would you say that the shotcrete could go in on weekends, or would it have to be and every-other-day sort of thing?
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
-------------------------------------------
Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

Rarick

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2006, 12:09:51 am »

ya'll can count on me sharing the process - tho it may take a while to get started, will be doing this after im debt free, ive still got about 6.5k$ to go just yet....

between now and then im planning to get the design set or nearly so, finishes/overlays for what little will be exposed decided upon, and perhaps procurement of things like tankless h2o heater, stovetop, fuel storage tanks ect...

also need to do more research about security systems, defensive perimeters, high security but aesthetically pleasing fencing, ect - in that vein ive ordered the book Patriots (and others) and have spent many hours surfing...i'de love to hear ideas about this type of stuff

what ide love to be able to do is just send a .dwg file and pictures of the lot to nestegg and say "this is what i want and where i want it - how much?" but everyone has their own processes for things

the gentleman i spoke to at nestegg had said that he was on a shotcrete industry board and told me that shotcrete was immune to the "fault" problem that you mentioned Rarick, but with anything im going to have to research  that statement - for the $$$ vs. the time to call a few concrete experts and ask them its a no-brainer


There are a whole bunch of threads here where defensive landscaping is discussed, use the search function.

Dream gulch, Ideal Gulch and such come to mind.  also alpharubicon.com has "edible defensive plants" in their public article area.  Survivalblog has some stuff too.
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
-------------------------------------------
Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

JOROWA

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2006, 08:03:44 am »

I only have experience with one monolithic house, so all I can say is that my shell builder sprayed the shotcrete 8 to 10 hours a day on successive days.  He also worked closely with his concrete supplier to insure no wait deliveries during that time.  I would think that the chance of shotcrete layer delamination if it was sprayed too far apart is too great a risk to take, given the expense, the cost of rework if it fails, and the safety hazard if concrete chunks fall on someone.  A good time to take a week of vacation. 

When you calculate your concrete usage, you must add about 10% to account for the rebound, or shotecrete that falls back during spraying. 

The folks who did the blower testing isolated the large part of the leaks to electrical boxes in inset and augment openings in the shell exterior, which where closed in with conventional framing or Tri-D type panels.  The rest was due to leaks around door weather stripping.   I am currently working on sealing the leaks around the exterior electrical boxes with spray can polyurethane foam.  This should reduce the 30 square inches to something smaller.  The positive pressure resulting from the ERV with HEPA filtration will keep most nasties from sneaking in.  The ERV intake and outlet ducts have electrically controlled dampers which totally close off when the ERV is off, and can thus button the house up when needed.  The blower test folks calculated the natural air changes per hour of the house at 0.03.  For more perspective on the leak, the 30 square inches is the net leak over a 8000 square foot shell plus a 5000 square foot floor.  That leak works out to be about 16 parts per million relative to the total house surface area.
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Rarick

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2007, 03:40:44 pm »

definitely need to have venting for the kitchen and baths then. I guess the ability to intake to just those spaces for fresh air?
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
-------------------------------------------
Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

JOROWA

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2007, 08:23:51 am »

We have exhaust vents for all of the bathrooms, the kitchen, and the clothes dryer.  The ERV has a differential pressure sensor that measures the pressure difference between inside and outside.  When an exhaust fan turns on, the inside pressure goes negative, which increases the intake fan speed and decreases the exhaust fan speed on the ERV to make up the lost air and maintain the desired pressure difference.  If all of the exhaust fans are on at once, that would be more than the ERV can correct for, and the pressure difference will turn negative.
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RagnarDanneskjold

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2007, 03:43:11 am »

Haven't read this entire thread yet. The initial post isn't quite in line with the subject title, but I figured this would be a good place to drop this post. A coworker and I were talking a few minutes ago about straw bale and earth bermed housing. I asked if he had heard of earthships. He had not, so I googled a link to send him and the first hit I got was this.

Now off to read the thread. Then I've got to finish updating my resume and find some places to post it. And I am at work, so I guess I should accomplish something.
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FDD

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2016, 08:29:47 am »

hmm Something more to think about.
but a lot of good info here.

anything more to add to this?

What has work with you?
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da gooch

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Re: Construction types/techniques
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2016, 08:36:58 pm »

sources to consider when evaluating balistics for the walls:

clairewolfe.com/wolfesblog/00001296.html   (Error 404 - Not Found)
globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-06-11/ch7.htm  (works fine)

Also check out SurvivalBlog for other tricks and tips.

It has been 9 and a half years so I guess an update may be required ....
perhaps the wayback machine has a copy?
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