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[padre29]

Are these old social rules outdated or refreshingly gentlemanly?

http://www.askmen.com/money/successful/41b_success.html

o not laugh at others' mistakes
This is perhaps one of the cruelest things one can do. When you mess up, the last thing you want is for someone not only to bring it to your attention, but to ridicule you on top of that.

Remove your hat indoors
This rule seems to have gone out the window these days. You should remove your headwear upon entering a building. Furthermore, never keep your hat on while at the dinner table. It reflects very poor etiquette.

Wait for seating before eating
When sitting down for a meal, you should wait until all the guests are properly seated and ready to commence the meal before eating. Everyone should start dining at the same time; this is a subtle but very important rule.

Or chivalry?

In addition to the aforementioned rules, gentlemen (in training) should follow these additional rules when in the presence of a lady. Chivalry may be on life support, but it is not dead yet. Be one of the few to keep this flame burning for many years to come.
Always open doors
This is perhaps the most basic rule of male etiquette out there. It is also one of the easiest to follow so you have no reason to forget it. Whether she is about to enter your car, restaurant, club, or anyplace with a door, you should always hold it open. If there are many doors, then hold them open one after the other.

Put on her coat
Always help a lady put on her coat or overgarment. This is a simple but powerful action.

Help with her seat
If an unaccompanied lady is sitting next to you, it is important that you help her be seated by pulling her chair out for her and gently pushing it back into place, with the lady seated of course.

Give up your seat
If a lady arrives at the table and there are no available seats, you should stand up and offer yours to her.

Stand at attention
Always stand when a lady enters or exits the room. This rule has been somewhat relaxed, so you can stand upon entrance but remain seated upon exit. Nonetheless, if you can do both, you should.

Give her your arm
When escorting a lady (that you know) to and from social events, you should offer her your arm. This is a little more intimate, but serves well when walking on uneven ground -- especially if she's wearing high heels.

Ask if she needs anything
This is one that most guys already do, but helps complete the gentleman in all of us nevertheless. When at social events, make sure to ask the lady if you can get her something to drink (or eat, depending on the event). Show her that you care about her comfort and needs.

Most of these seem to be just common sense, the chivalry section may be a bit too much fussing over one's better half.

[Brenda]

Oh, you're opening up a can of works here...

I usually have a knee-jerk reaction in favor of old customs over new, but a lot of "chivalry" sounds like it would be annoying in practice. At least for a shy woman. It just draws too much attention towards you. If men insisted on "standing at attention" every time they saw me I'd just be humiliated. If someone wanted to push my chair in or put my coat on I'd get territorial.

The only good point in that list is

Ask if she needs anything
This is one that most guys already do, but helps complete the gentleman in all of us nevertheless. When at social events, make sure to ask the lady if you can get her something to drink (or eat, depending on the event). Show her that you care about her comfort and needs.

...but that isn't chivalry, that's just common kindness that everyone should practice, regardless of sex.


Edited to add:

The real problem with such notions of chivalry is that they are based on the idea respect is not earned, but that women are entitled to it simply by virtue of being women. Everyone can see the emptiness of that, so the "respect" is inherently hypocritical and doesn't even feel like kindness. Only a very shallow woman would enjoy seeing strangers "stand at attention" for her. Having a friend get up to greet you is another matter entirely.

[velojym]

Rah, Brenda.
I'm all for treating folks as individuals, and not based on whether they're more bumpy up top.
 

[da gooch]

Chivalry [as we know it today] was invented by the Celts*  to honor "The Goddess" [insert your favorite Goddess here] in all women.
[Mine is Rhiannon. Goddess of water, the underworld and horses.] [ Springs, creeks, rivers, lakes and oceans. {The Lady of The Lake} ]

While I subscribe to the concept of honoring the sanctity of life, property and liberty 
I feel that the subterfuge of flattering women to "prove" your "noble birth" or "proper upbringing" is outdated.

Women always have been equal partners in this existence on this planet.
It was arrogant elitism that refused to recognize that fact, at times, in our history.
Arrogant Elitism [in all of its facets] is one of the concepts I would like to see eradicated from our planet.
[Along with GREED ]

Do I "hold doors" etc ? Yep.
Mea Culpa. 
Conditioning [upbringing] and not personally harmful or repugnant.





*[approximately 1000 b.c. according to Kevin Duffey "Who were the Celts?" ISBN-13: 978-0-7607-1608-3]

[padre29]

Oh I agree with you Brenda, the chivalry part does seem like oen would be expected to "hover" whilst the lady raises a pinky, that wouldn't fly for me anyway.

That and it would be entirely too much "fussing" "get up sit down, pull out chair, push in chair"

[Roy J. Tellason]

Rah, Brenda.
I'm all for treating folks as individuals, and not based on whether they're more bumpy up top.
 

Ok,  I'm missing something here...

What's "big hair" got to do with this?

[Tahn L.]

I don't know why I am posting this because it will tick off about half of you and annoy the rest but...

 I believe that when a Woman is wearing "The Full Mantle of Her Power", as in drop dead feminine and lovely, she should be treated as "A Lady of Power", with full reverence and all honor shown.

 Of course, the standard of treatment, as with the standard of "femininity", will change over time.

 Regardless, respect is due and must be shown! My Grandfather taught me this. He was a Southerner.

[padre29]

I don't know why I am posting this because it will tick off about half of you and annoy the rest but...

 I believe that when a Woman is wearing "The Full Mantle of Her Power", as in drop dead feminine and lovely, she should be treated as "A Lady of Power", with full reverence and all honor shown.

 Of course, the standard of treatment, as with the standard of "femininity", will change over time.

 Regardless, respect is due and must be shown! My Grandfather taught me this. He was a Southerner.

Ach Laddie, duck, it's your hide they be after.....

[Brenda]

 Regardless, respect is due and must be shown! My Grandfather taught me this. He was a Southerner.

I feel like a cad for complaining about people who want to be polite, but..but...the problem with treating people like you owe them respect is, they might start believing it, and then you've created a monster. I've met a few of those women, and they just make me glad I don't have to date women.

[coloradohermit]

padre, I think you actually answered your own question in the very first post.  Like so many other situations, it shouldn't be necessary to have a ton of fussy, anachronistic "rules" to dictate what should be left to common sense and common courtesy.  Some rules may have had a basis in need way back in history and just hang on from habit.    Some rules were made virtually obsolete by the womens' equality movement.  But simple courtesy is rarely out of place, from anyone to anyone.

[padre29]

It's spring Colorado, and this forum has been ahhem "quite" for some time now, so I decided to get the ball rolling with a male chavanistic thread.


Maybe I had better duck.......LOL!

[Ire]

I never understood how inconveniencing oneself unnecessarily was supposed to be polite...?

Standing up when a  lady enters the room serves no practical purpose. She can put her own coat on, she doesn't need to be treated like a child! And she must be in a sorry state indeed if she cant seat herself.

Most of these seem condescending to some degree- not polite. Far better it seems to me to do what is practical.

But then, maybe thats why I don't have a girlfriend...

[Rarick]

Gentlemen think of the people they are with and responsible for.  If the girls(s) you are with are all decked out in the formal hoopskirts and such, open the door.  The hoops make it hard to reach the handles, the same for  in and out of chairs, her hands are busy with her stuff, and she can't grab the chair.  A lot of the old rules are gone since we all wear pants now and dress fairly similarly. (heck the Possibles Bag is coming back for men, renamed the Murse?).  It is taking turns in traffic when merging lanes (my lane car, their lane car, my lane car, thier lane car, my car, their lane car.......) you don't make yourself uncomfortable, but do what is necessary to excersie self restraint so you aren't running rampant over everyone else's comfort. You give up the seat on the bus to the wman with the children, or the person with the cane, because they are compromosed using their balance and you are not........  you do not shout across a room because that would step on everyone else's conversation........  You have your money for payment ready before you get to the window at the end of the line so you do not slow it down for everyone..........

Make way for the loaded person- they are clumsy with the load and you may end up in/ causing an injurious situation. You can at least get out of the way, if not share the load.......  I consider the standing,sitting and other such stuff as "spy warning" stuff from the "man/women roleplays" eras.  Certain subjects were not alked about between the sexes and the stand up served to interrupt/ notify to avoid taboo violation. (I still remember grandadd's reaction to the "barracks talk" in Topgun and other similar movies.  He simply could not watch them with any women present- other guys okay, but "Mixed company".......)

A lot of the gentleman attitude is "common decency" not necessarily common courtesy (Yes, No, Please, Thank you stuff). You show consideration, not mouth it.

[nurseflo]

On the other hand...........when a man takes off his hat inside, stands when a woman comes to the table in a restaurant, offers his arm, or opens a door I love it.  He doesn't have to seat me or help me put on my coat unless I am having trouble, but it's nice when he remembers some of the old rules. 

It just seems to reflect the man's had some upbringing.
Daily life lost some of its graciousness when the rules were thrown out.
Maybe it's a Southern thing.

By the way, polite attention was paid to the men too, you know.   And, just for the record, I've been a feminist since I was in diapers.

[Scarmiglione']

As I get older I find myself taking a little more time to act the gentlemen towards the ladies.  Not overtly, but I'll let them enter and leave an elevator first, I'll hold a door (though I do that for anybody), and I'll offer to carry a package if they are burdened.

Nobody seems to get pissed by it.