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Author Topic: Moderator Minutes  (Read 94142 times)

FDD

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #195 on: October 01, 2015, 08:07:19 pm »

While I may not have always agreed with the way StillaGhost did things, I can see his point too.
there are others here who have violated the TOS here, but because they are a long time member, nothing was done to them.

Why is that?

Is there a double standard here then?

What I read from Silver in the Karma thread did also violated the TOS, yet it appears nothing is done.

I can see how that would get under someone skin, if they are always call out on this, yet others are not.   

just voicing my opinion, as I see it, and have read it.

Ya'll do as you will. 
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If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

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Mr. Dare

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #196 on: October 01, 2015, 08:42:10 pm »

  Julio, it is a valid concern, and one we are struggling with. Silver has been asked to remove or alter his post in the thread which has been unlocked. We took no pleasure in doing what we had to do with StillaGhost, but decided together that it was probably the best option since we did not see things improving with yet another "chance".
  All I can promise is that we will be making every effort to be even handed in the future. We have always striven to do so in the past, but we are humans, and yes holding someone in high regard can effect the way we deal with them. Silver has certainly earned my respect through the many years I have known him. The post you are questioning is the first I have seen from Silver that I felt stepped over the line. There may have been others, but I did not see them and hence have no knowledge of them. I hope that this issue will be solved by folks stepping up to the plate and reflecting one more time before hitting the post button. We don't expect perfection from ourselves or others, but in the end the only ones we can legitimately expect it from is ourselves. We try, that's all I can say.
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jamie

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #197 on: October 01, 2015, 09:13:14 pm »

  Julio, it is a valid concern, and one we are struggling with. Silver has been asked to remove or alter his post in the thread which has been unlocked. We took no pleasure in doing what we had to do with StillaGhost, but decided together that it was probably the best option since we did not see things improving with yet another "chance".
  All I can promise is that we will be making every effort to be even handed in the future. We have always striven to do so in the past, but we are humans, and yes holding someone in high regard can effect the way we deal with them. Silver has certainly earned my respect through the many years I have known him. The post you are questioning is the first I have seen from Silver that I felt stepped over the line. There may have been others, but I did not see them and hence have no knowledge of them. I hope that this issue will be solved by folks stepping up to the plate and reflecting one more time before hitting the post button. We don't expect perfection from ourselves or others, but in the end the only ones we can legitimately expect it from is ourselves. We try, that's all I can say.

So when siver called me a butt hurt moron, albeit in a weaselly and underhanded way, that didn't count?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 09:15:36 pm by jamie »
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FDD

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #198 on: October 01, 2015, 10:59:31 pm »

  Julio, it is a valid concern, and one we are struggling with. Silver has been asked to remove or alter his post in the thread which has been unlocked. We took no pleasure in doing what we had to do with StillaGhost, but decided together that it was probably the best option since we did not see things improving with yet another "chance".
  All I can promise is that we will be making every effort to be even handed in the future. We have always striven to do so in the past, but we are humans, and yes holding someone in high regard can effect the way we deal with them. Silver has certainly earned my respect through the many years I have known him. The post you are questioning is the first I have seen from Silver that I felt stepped over the line. There may have been others, but I did not see them and hence have no knowledge of them. I hope that this issue will be solved by folks stepping up to the plate and reflecting one more time before hitting the post button. We don't expect perfection from ourselves or others, but in the end the only ones we can legitimately expect it from is ourselves. We try, that's all I can say.

My commit was not just at Silver, there has been many who have done far worst than SoG, yet nothing seams to be done.

I understand about the human factor. but it is the appearance of nothing being done to the offender that gets to be disturbing

yes this is a freedom forum, yes there is a TOS that all of us agreed to follow.
No not all of us want or have the mental ability to be Mods.

if you are trying to be fair, then so be it.
but from my little chair, it does not look like it, at least most of the time.   
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Nobody needs an AR-15
Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

I think, therefore I am not a progressive liberal socialist marxist democrat

That's WY

Mr. Dare

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #199 on: October 02, 2015, 05:25:24 am »

Jamie, I did not see that, but yes such name calling violates the TOS.

Julio, All Moderator action, even if justified, carries a cost on this forum. The membership would not react well to us nit picking their posts for compliance, even if we were specifically right in all cases. As such, we do to some extent have to pick our battles. The only other option is to do nothing. Things that can effect a response are frequency and severity of offenses, past history, and the current state of the forum in terms of the likelihood of a misstep by one member snowballing and starting a flame war. Throw in the demands of life outside the forum in terms of time and frustration, and you have a recipe for an imperfect system which can be inconsistent from one day to the next. Again, all I can say is we try. 

You can report abusive posts that violate the TOS to ensure it receives attention.
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"He's no fun, he fell right over!"
"I've got Deku Nuts coming outta my ass and I still can't kill this bastard!!!" (my sweet wife...)
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #200 on: October 02, 2015, 06:27:39 am »


You can report abusive posts that violate the TOS to ensure it receives attention.

This is a key element, and something I have begged for all along. I do not, can not read every post.

Julio... send me a link to any post that you believe violates the TOC. I want everyone to do that. If nobody can bother to do that, I don't see how I can be expected to do anything about it.

As for SAG, he was warned many, many times. He went away twice, at least, and came back a third time with a different name. He was deliberately provocative and targeted people for his invective - over and over. I have not seen anyone who violated the TOC more, or more often since Ssix. Others have been tossed from time to time as well. Nobody was picking on SAG alone.

That said, and I repeat myself if you've read my posts lately... this is a new broom, and the serious violations won't be tolerated... but I have to know about them, of course.  And, as Mr. Dare said, there is no way that I can be picky enough, thorough enough or heavy handed enough to satisfy everyone... so this old, tired human will just have to muddle along doing her best to do better and find a balance that works mostly for everyone. How's that for a call to juggle sharp knives?
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Scarmiglione'

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #201 on: October 02, 2015, 08:36:25 am »

To add emphasis to ML's point.  Please report any post you feel violates the TOS, by anyone.  We get notified for every one.  Specifically, not only do we get a private message here, but I get an email forwarded to me personally.  Usually, by the time I get logged into an email notification, ML has already done something about it.  But if we don't know, we can't do anything about it unless we stumble across it.

I would also point out that the purpose of moderation like this is not to police people's relationships.  We do not want to be a black-and-white legal system.  The purpose of moderation is aimed not at controlling people, but at encouraging healthy conversation and community.  What that means is that some things people might see as violations of the TOS might not have action taken if such an action would be disruptive to the community greater than the worth of the violation.  This is a very human-centric approach, not a legalistic one.  What we have see over time is that SAG consistently poisoned certain conversations and refused to even try to engage respectfully with certain people.  Other people may have violated the TOS, but are not consistently problematic.  People have bad days, and we don't want to be mods that permanently damage feelings or relationships because someone got twisted on a hot topic once.  We have seen other relationships that had rough spots, but people interested in working through them did exactly that.  We saw many people reach out to StillAGhost publicly and many of us engaged with him privately to try and make his presence here more productive than destructive.  He repeatedly made it clear that not only would he not change, but he felt it was his duty and right to be abusive to people who felt were incorrect or misguided in his eyes.  Most other people who have violated TOS on occasion do not exhibit that kind of chronic behavior.

Again, we do not want to be heavy-handed moderators, thus it has literally taken years for all of us to experience enough of Ghosts's behavior to agree that his presence was more unhealthy than productive.

I know that I am somewhat central to the situation with Ghost, because for whatever reasons, he has long seen me as a target.  We had a relationship where I could publicly and strongly agree with him, and he still attacked me.  For this reason it was important that the moderators all be in agreement for this action.  Having said that, I will again reiterate that if anyone has a problem with my actions as a moderator, please report them to Mama Liberty, and Elias at a minimum.  They will be discussed, and we'll see what I can do to improve.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #202 on: October 02, 2015, 09:10:31 am »

Thanks scarmig. I hope everyone can appreciate what you are saying, and take it to heart.

And I do appreciate all of the support I've gotten the last week or so. Some times in the last year or so it has been very easy to feel as if I were all alone.

Seems obvious, but I've never been afraid to state the obvious:

The entire membership of the TMM community needs to participate in the "moderation" of our forum. We all have "skin in the game" if we hope to have civil discussions and good relationships. We can all state our positions, beliefs and speculations freely, but we also need to remember that no person or group of persons can actually "force" anyone else to do or believe anything in cyberspace here because everyone also has the power to withdraw or leave. The silly idea that some members, without admin tools, can force anything at TMM is ludicrous. And the admin "powers" are seriously limited by the feedback from the members, who can certainly appeal to Elias if things get out of hand. A positive feedback mechanism that works well, if the members will bother to use it. And, if they don't want to bother... Oh well, then TMM won't survive no matter what we moderators do or don't do.

It's up to you, me, all of us.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #203 on: October 25, 2015, 01:10:52 pm »

DEEZNUTTZ was warned that he was being monitored as a potential troll. Nonsense response. All posts seem to have a similar vein, nothing to contribute to the discussion, just veiled incitement to violence. Account terminated.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #204 on: November 02, 2015, 02:49:25 pm »

Bill Rose account deleted with all posts for violation of TOC.
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Tahn L.

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #205 on: June 18, 2017, 01:01:31 am »

MamaLiberty,

 Did I have a bad dream or did I read a half dozen "Gunkid" type of posts that then disappeared after I fell asleep?

Dazed and wondering.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #206 on: June 18, 2017, 05:01:57 am »

MamaLiberty,

 Did I have a bad dream or did I read a half dozen "Gunkid" type of posts that then disappeared after I fell asleep?

Dazed and wondering.

You didn't dream it. :)  I happily nuked him as he was composing the 21st post!  Now I'll go back this morning and see about two other new accounts... They hadn't posted anything yet yesterday.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #207 on: July 29, 2017, 04:04:44 pm »

OK, folks, check out this one... https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=14348

Do we nuke it as a troll or??
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Moderator Minutes
« Reply #208 on: July 30, 2017, 06:08:59 am »

OK, folks, check out this one... https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=14348

Do we nuke it as a troll or??

Deleted account as troll.
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The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.
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