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Author Topic: Fully Informed Jurors!  (Read 92244 times)

Bedwere

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2008, 07:41:24 am »

I'm going to gently tread on some toes here, I suspect, even though I'm fairly sure we're all on the same page in reality...

Why do so many say, "...2nd amendment right to DEFEND ourselves."  Human beings have had the absolute right of self defense, from the dawn of time, everywhere on the planet. The 2nd amendment has little or nothing to do with it except to acknowledge the fact for Americans. If the entire constitution and bill of rights vanished today, our right to self defense would not change.

I know you all know that...

I just wonder how many people who never learned that are confused by this 2nd amendment reference.




I never refer to it. I also say "right I was born with".
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2008, 08:35:59 am »

Good point MamaLiberty. Maybe Second-Amendment-Affirmed Right would be a better way to say it. But maybe it would be better to leave government parchments out of it completely.

I own my body. As such I have the absolute right to ingest anything I please, and to defend myself and my property using whatever tools I please, unless my doing so directly harms another non-aggressing & non-consenting person or his/her property. And so do you. No person or group of persons has the authority to infringe on those rights in any way. Even if the whole world but you or me were to vote to do so.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

iloilo

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2008, 08:49:06 am »

Thank you Elias, ML and BSC:
Yes, as a human individual, your human rights are an inherent characteristic of being human; these rights are as intrinsically a part of your individual identity as the colour of your eyes or the size of your feet.  That is why they cannot be separated from your identity, your body or your thinking.
Another of those rights is the right to think for yourself and make decisions for yourself.  The concept of jurors is unique and elegant, because each juror alone can make an independent decision and render an individual verdict.  Each human possesses a sovereign mind, and while all humans have brains of the same design, each individual human brings a unique set of experiences, attitudes, observational skills and ethical priorities to the jury.  It is this diversity of views, coupled with a singularity of purpose - to render true justice - that makes the entire concept of the jury one of the most unique on our planet. 
Juries are constituted not only in courtrooms, but, throughout history, have been constituted of members of tribes, a few people from a small village, one family member from each family in the farming community, from the elders of churches, and other such configurations.  Juries have not one thing to do with government, but serve human society as a means to render justice during disputes among or between humans, when no other means has been found to solve the conflict or disagreement.

Thank you all for recognizing that, as with so many areas of our individual human lives, the right to self defense is has absolutely nothing to do with any mention or sanction by any government.
ff
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2008, 08:52:29 am »

I'm going to gently tread on some toes here, I suspect, even though I'm fairly sure we're all on the same page in reality...

Why do so many say, "...2nd amendment right to DEFEND ourselves."  Human beings have had the absolute right of self defense, from the dawn of time, everywhere on the planet. The 2nd amendment has little or nothing to do with it except to acknowledge the fact for Americans. If the entire constitution and bill of rights vanished today, our right to self defense would not change.

I know you all know that...

I just wonder how many people who never learned that are confused by this 2nd amendment reference.


Those "other readers" have supposedly sworn to support and defend the constitution, and they frequently disregard it anyway.  They have no concept of universal rights.  They believe that our rights exist only with their permission, and the 2nd amendment reflects that "permission".  We don't actually NEED anyone's permission to defend ourselves.  But for authoritarian buttholes think we do.  My post was for their benefit.  
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

vonuvan

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2008, 04:27:55 pm »

Since we no longer have a jury of our peers, it's time to move onto the ammo box.
Anyone who has any doubt about this should read Lysander Spooner.

Please do not think I'm displeased with your post, okay? But I've got to say this now. Like-minded people are not the only readers here. You're doing just fine, vonu, but this has to be said, imo:

With full cognizance of your emotion, vonu, and the logic it contains, (which no one would argue against), I wish to remind readers here that TMM is The Mental Militia, which fires ideas at tyranny, instead of firing bullets. TMM's stance on suggesting or recommending violence is covered in our mission statement.

http://www.thementalmilitia.com/MissionStatement.html



While your statement is not a recommendation toward violence, and is simply a statement that it's time to move onto the ammo box, I feel it borders on a violation of TMM's basic premise of remaining "mental".

Thank you, vonu, for allowing me to insert this disclaimer for "other readers". I feel much better now, lol!

I hope you enjoy much future posting here!

Salute!
Elias



That's cool, but I haven't found the telekenesis thread, yet.
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Junker

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2008, 05:00:30 pm »

Nice!

I just got American Juror—FIJA Newsletter—v.20 n.1.

    1. From the Executive Director
    2. Letters
    3. A Jury Deceived
    4. Pattern Criminal Jury Instructions
    5. The Jury Box
    6. Op Ed: Do One Thing for Justice
    7. Draft Letter—Jury Rights Day Interviews

I guess I'm an official and accepted member of the Grand Order of FIJA supporters!  :laugh:
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iloilo

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2008, 05:02:14 pm »

 :laugh: :laugh:
Yes, you are!
ff
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da gooch

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2008, 10:17:31 pm »

       :thumbsup:

And Welcome.

Who's next ?

FIJA
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"Come and Take It"  Gonzales, Texas 1835

     III

vonuvan

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2008, 12:07:47 pm »

I miss Larry Dodge.
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iloilo

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2008, 12:27:36 pm »

I miss Larry Dodge.
I do too.  He and Honey are in Panama, having a free life.
ff
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vonuvan

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2008, 12:31:51 pm »

Good point MamaLiberty. Maybe Second-Amendment-Affirmed Right would be a better way to say it. But maybe it would be better to leave government parchments out of it completely.

I own my body. As such I have the absolute right to ingest anything I please, and to defend myself and my property using whatever tools I please, unless my doing so directly harms another non-aggressing & non-consenting person or his/her property. And so do you. No person or group of persons has the authority to infringe on those rights in any way. Even if the whole world but you or me were to vote to do so.


2A doesn't affirm anything. It merely tells government "hands off," and they choose to ignore it, at their peril. We just need to beef up the peril a bit.
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iloilo

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2008, 01:04:28 pm »

Good point MamaLiberty. Maybe Second-Amendment-Affirmed Right would be a better way to say it. But maybe it would be better to leave government parchments out of it completely.

I own my body. As such I have the absolute right to ingest anything I please, and to defend myself and my property using whatever tools I please, unless my doing so directly harms another non-aggressing & non-consenting person or his/her property. And so do you. No person or group of persons has the authority to infringe on those rights in any way. Even if the whole world but you or me were to vote to do so.

You will enjoy, if you have not read, the new FIJA brochure about 2A.
ff

2A doesn't affirm anything. It merely tells government "hands off," and they choose to ignore it, at their peril. We just need to beef up the peril a bit.
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vonuvan

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2008, 01:22:28 pm »

You will enjoy, if you have not read, the new FIJA brochure about 2A.
ff

Do you mean this?
http://www.fija.org/docs/brochure_perfect_copyfor_web.pdf
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da gooch

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2008, 01:36:06 pm »

You will enjoy, if you have not read, the new FIJA brochure about 2A.
ff

Do you mean this?
http://www.fija.org/docs/brochure_perfect_copyfor_web.pdf

Yes sir that is it.
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"Come and Take It"  Gonzales, Texas 1835

     III

vonuvan

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Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2008, 01:50:57 pm »

You will enjoy, if you have not read, the new FIJA brochure about 2A.
ff

Do you mean this?
http://www.fija.org/docs/brochure_perfect_copyfor_web.pdf

Yes sir that is it.

It is very good, however, I was passing those out when I was an activist at the CLP, and 2Aers are hard to find away from gun shows, where they are so thick (in both ways, concentrated and thick as a brick) that it is like mining a played out mine.
It would be really useful if we could find an insider who could provide us a list of freshly summoned jurors we could shotgun mail educational material to, so we could avoid pamphleteering outside the courthouse.
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