The Mental Militia Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10   Go Down

Author Topic: Fully Informed Jurors!  (Read 92558 times)

idahobob

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 114
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2008, 10:02:04 am »


 Ron Paul, Jury Nullification and FIJA up on YouTube !!!
 
Juries have the power to nullify laws that they feel are unconstitutional.  Never shirk your responsiblity if you are asked to be on a jury.
 
 
"Jury Nullification" is the power of the Jury to overturn bad laws (of which, we have MANY) It is an important tool guaranteed to citizens serving on jury duty Jury nullification enables us to declare laws unjust, if we are so inclined
Learn more by watching this clip from 1990:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA4GKG__B-s
 
Part 2:  VERY IMPORTANT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRdse8zBzyI
 
Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbw8rF_hA9I
 
Most Judges do not want you to know about this power Juries are only told they can rule "guilty" or "not guilty" They are never told of their third option, "the law is bad"

Shame on bad Judges covering up this power and the corrupt system which allow these arrogant Judges to remain on the bench

Learn your rights and DO NOT try to get out of jury duty

As citizens we only have two real powers to keep the Gov't in check:
1) The power to vote
2) The power of the jury

Your rights: Use them or loose them With rumors of the American Bar Association working to eliminate juries in the future And with the PROVEN vulnerability of the electronic voting machines, what voice will we have left?

ff,

Thank you soooooo much.

 :wav:

Bob
Logged
How to overthrow the system: brew your own beer; kick in your Tee Vee; kill your own beef; build your own cabin and piss off the front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it. -- Edward Abbey

iloilo

  • Guest
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2008, 11:46:02 pm »

Please share the post below with others.
Thank you.
ff

Hello,
On Wednesday 04 June 2008 Ms. Iloilo Jones of the Fully Informed Jury Association ( www.fija.org )will be our featured guest on "Know Your Rights". 

The veto power of the jury member is as powerful as the president's!  But most people don't know that.  The judges sometimes will give incorrect or incomplete jury instructions.  This is live and interactive.  Listen and learn!  Learn about YOUR power as a potential juror! 

Go to www.alltalkradio.net at 1 P.M. PST to listen.


Has a friend or relative been wrongly convicted?  Learn how to prevent such a thing happening to someone else. 
Thank You.
Robert Walker
Logged

jamie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1959
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2008, 11:55:56 am »

This might be of some interest.

www.joebageant.com

Jury nullification is commoners' province
Dear Joe:

As a practicing attorney I must respond to your tale of your friend Stokes (Old Dogs and Hard Time). First, the vast majority of lawyers and judges in this country are just as appalled at the hijacking of our system of "justice" as are you and your readers. Stories like that of Mr. Stokes are now just every day occurrences in courts all over the country.

Logged

vonuvan

  • Guest
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2008, 06:25:54 pm »

Now, if we could get judges to either fulfill their proper role in a jury court or get them off the bench.
Logged

iloilo

  • Guest
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2008, 01:28:06 pm »

FIJA article  begins on page 40.

From the publisher:
"Alright... the digital version of Restore the Republic! is on line ... this time we went after the experts to get some real solutions to the problems we are facing in America today... and it's our biggest issue yet and at the right page count to get on the news stands all across the country.  However, we're not on news stands yet but that is the goal.

So, before you browse it at your local convenience store and get yelled at for not buying it, you can immediately view/download the digital edition by clicking on the link below:
http://www.restoretherepublic.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,140/Itemid,107/

Please forward this link to others and post it on every forum or blog you can find."
Logged

iloilo

  • Guest
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2008, 01:51:12 pm »

Neat Article:

We'd mentioned the three boxes (soap, ballot & ammo) in explaining our trek to the Appleseed Rifleman course that we just completed & Iloilo Jones, head of FIJA added one more, the Jury box & Richard Boddie & Steve Cobb added the fifth (Moving Box).  Here's their great article:
--bob & lou

Check this out, by a Free State Project friend, Steve Cobb:

The Five Boxes of Liberty
Among an individual’s infinite, innumerable rights, a critical few directly defend the others. You should recognize, appreciate,  and exercise these defensive rights, without which you will eventually lose the rest. The United States Constitution mentions at least five defensive rights, easily remembered under the mnemonic “The Five Boxes of Liberty.”* They are:

The Moving Box—right of association, in particular territorially via migration
The Soap Box—right of free speech
The Ballot Box—right to a voice in your government
The Jury Box—right to a trial by jury of your peers
The Ammunition Box—right to threaten or use appropriate violence in self-defense

The US Constitution guarantees some defensive rights more clearly, completely, and emphatically than others. The freedoms of association and speech are declared immediately in the First Amendment, but while the courts have interpreted speech broadly and forcefully, association had to be detected as a limited penumbral right emanating from the right to assembly. Of the many possible types of associations, only “intimate” and “expressive” associations are deemed protected, and the law now imposes some associations undesired by one or more parties. Even the United Nation’s awful Universal Declaration of Human Rights managed to list the rights of association and movement explicitly. The right to vote runs throughout the US Constitution, but it was recognized for blacks and women only in the Fifteenth and Nineteenth Amendments respectively. The right to a trial by jury appears in the US Constitution no fewer than four times, first in Article III and then in the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh Amendments. Finally, the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Second Amendment, but preceded by the enigmatic qualifier “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state….” The Founders obviously put their faith in the people to defend their own rights, and distrusted elites and centralized power, but they could have been more straightforward in their language, in particular about the underappreciated right of association.

Though subject to debate, the sequencing of the Boxes of Liberty here is no accident: each box differs in its efficacy, cost, availability, and potential for inflicting harm. You should first defend your liberty with efficient (effective, low-cost, low-harm) methods, and only after making a reasonable (or more-than-reasonable) effort should you resort to methods that involve force. Neither of the first two boxes of liberty entails violence, but which should you use first? In his well-known book “Exit, Voice, and Loyalty,” Albert O. Hirschman suggested that a dissatisfied organization member (e.g. employee, customer, pupil, spouse or citizen) has two options: leave the organization or speak out, i.e. use one of the first two Boxes of Liberty. Hirschman disapproved of the exit option, because organization members’ departure deprives the organization of the feedback necessary to reform, but, of course, members’ lack of a credible threat of exit deprives the organization of an incentive to reform. This hostility towards freedom of association continues in a more recent book by Bill Bishop, “The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded People is Tearing Us Apart”. Bishop shows that Americans are gathering into neighborhoods that are demographically and politically homogeneous, and he contends that this is inherently bad. Lacking daily contact with people who differ, Americans are less able to understand and sympathize with their fellow citizens. This may indeed be so, but perhaps clustering is not primitive xenophobia but a defensive reaction, an unintended consequence of well-meaning assaults on individual liberty. For example, forcing children to attend the government school closest to their homes will lead parents to carefully choose where to live. In general, increases in political power, taxation, and regulation increase the stakes in winning elections, so people are more motivated to live near their own kind so as to be on the winning side.

Freedom of association, especially its extreme form of migration, enables you to surround yourself with like-minded individuals who will be less likely to oppress you and more likely to add their voice to yours. A community of like-minded individuals is less likely to pass onerous laws, and more likely to form a sympathetic jury. You are less likely to end up in a situation requiring self-defense, but more likely to receive help if you do. You are fortunate if you already live in such a community, but what if you do not? US history is replete with migrations (the Puritans who fled Europe, the Mormons who trekked to Utah, and the blacks who left the South on north-bound trains) and autonomy movements (e.g. the Lakota Sioux and Christian Exodus). Libertarian examples also abound, including organized migrations (notably the Free State Project, targeting New Hampshire, and the Free Wyoming Project) and informal clusters like Orange County in California and Las Vegas, Nevada. The ideal community would be comprised of libertarian activists—people who may not share your personal interests, but who will defend your rights out of principle. The Founders were such people, the kind you want next door. Such a community will of course prosper, attracting new migrants less interested in the underpinning philosophy of liberty, and succeeding generations will not automatically inherit respect for these values. Migration will become necessary again, in a never-ending process of re-association and creative destruction among competing governments. Unfortunately, at the scale required to escape unjust laws in a large centralized territory, migration can be hugely costly, requiring changing jobs, straining or severing ties with friends and family, and even learning a foreign language. It is not something that you can do often.

Like the Moving Box, the Soap Box is readily available to anyone at any time, and will not harm anyone. Fortunately, freedom of speech is the most revered right in the US, interpreted so broadly as to protect flag-burning and pornography. You have ample opportunity to express your opinion and attempt to persuade your fellows. True, you may be at a disadvantage relative to rock stars and Hollywood actors, without their fame and charisma, and you may lack the raised platform of a professional journalist, but you may give it a try. Improving communications technologies, especially the web, make this increasingly easy. Exercising freedoms of association and speech both cost little at the local scale, but over large distances can be difficult and expensive, an argument for subsidiarity (maximum decentralization of government).

The final three Boxes of Liberty all risk inflicting harm. Voting, the third box of liberty, is vastly overrated and nowadays far too much faith is placed in “democracy”. Elections are held infrequently, which is good for preventing bad measures and candidates but bad for reforming existing problems. You usually have to choose the lesser among evils, with the result imposed on everyone. Given the primitive voting systems commonly used today, voting is unlikely to capture “the will of the people”, which anyway is sadly more likely to reflect personal interest rather than distributed knowledge. More important than the act of voting is participating in the process, e.g. volunteering in campaigns. It is here that you can make a significant difference. If an unjust law nevertheless does emerge from the political process, harm is guaranteed.

You can contort yourself and obey a bad law, or break it (preferably deliberately and publicly via civil disobedience) and face trial. There you will depend on the fourth box of liberty, a jury of your peers drawn from the surrounding area. If this community contains the same oppressive people who supported the unjust law, you will have little hope, though maybe just one dissenting juror will be enough to prevent conviction. If no one on the jury is informed of their power to nullify bad laws, you will have no hope at all of receiving justice. In addition to the legal costs you can expect a fine, imprisonment, forfeiture of your property, or worse. Your final recourse is self-defense, the Ammunition Box, if you choose to exercise it. When to talk, when to fight, and when to move away? In the end you will have to make that decision for yourself.

--------------

*Attribution of the original Boxes of Liberty is difficult. Steve Kubby spoke of the Four Boxes of Liberty during his 1998 campaign for Governor of California. Another account, probably fictional, attributes them to an unnamed US Senator:   http://www.uhuh.com/reports/headsup/hu168.htm

Yet another citation is “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order.”  ~ Ed Howdershelt

Thanks to Richard Boddie for the references, and Scott Bieser for the illustrations.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 03:57:43 pm by feralfae »
Logged

MamaLiberty

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25985
  • Non aggression, self ownership
    • The Price of Liberty
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2008, 03:31:27 pm »

Is there a link to this article. The link at the bottom seems to be something else. I'd like to post this on another forum, but we can't use the whole text without permission of the author or publication. Thanks!!
Logged
The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

iloilo

  • Guest
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2008, 03:58:51 pm »

Is there a link to this article. The link at the bottom seems to be something else. I'd like to post this on another forum, but we can't use the whole text without permission of the author or publication. Thanks!!

http://www.libertyforall.net/?p=1335
Logged

MamaLiberty

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25985
  • Non aggression, self ownership
    • The Price of Liberty
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2008, 04:08:57 pm »

Thanks!! :)
Logged
The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

vonuvan

  • Guest
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2008, 10:42:48 pm »

Since we no longer have a jury of our peers, it's time to move onto the ammo box.
Anyone who has any doubt about this should read Lysander Spooner.
Logged

Junker

  • Guest
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2008, 10:51:56 pm »

Anyone who has any doubt about this should read Lysander Spooner.

[wiki]Lysander Spooner[/wiki] (1808–1887)

American individualist anarchist, entrepreneur, political philosopher, abolitionist, and legal theorist.

Rothbard: "And Lysander Spooner, the anarchist constitutional lawyer and associate of Tucker, enchanted me by his brilliant insight into the nature of the State, his devotion to morality and justice, and his couching of anarchistic invective in a delightful legal style.

"Spooner’s Letter to Grover Cleveland I discovered to be one of the greatest demolitions of statism ever written."

Works Online

    * Gutenberg: Essay On The Trial By Jury
    * No Treason (1867) (Wikisource)

Web

    * LysanderSpooner.org
    * BlackCrayon.com: People: Lysander Spooner
    * The Fully Informed Jury Association
    * Lysander Spooner: Libertarian Pietist by Murray Rothbard
    * Lysander Spooner Quotes at Liberty-Tree.ca
    * Lysander Spooner article from Libertyguide.com
    * Our Nestor Taken From Us via The Wayback Machine
    * Lysander Spooner's Bibliography via The Wayback Machine
Logged

Elias Alias

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4912
  • TMM
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2008, 12:11:40 pm »

Since we no longer have a jury of our peers, it's time to move onto the ammo box.
Anyone who has any doubt about this should read Lysander Spooner.

Please do not think I'm displeased with your post, okay? But I've got to say this now. Like-minded people are not the only readers here. You're doing just fine, vonu, but this has to be said, imo:

With full cognizance of your emotion, vonu, and the logic it contains, (which no one would argue against), I wish to remind readers here that TMM is The Mental Militia, which fires ideas at tyranny, instead of firing bullets. TMM's stance on suggesting or recommending violence is covered in our mission statement.

http://www.thementalmilitia.com/MissionStatement.html

While your statement is not a recommendation toward violence, and is simply a statement that it's time to move onto the ammo box, I feel it borders on a violation of TMM's basic premise of remaining "mental".

Thank you, vonu, for allowing me to insert this disclaimer for "other readers". I feel much better now, lol!

I hope you enjoy much future posting here!

Salute!
Elias

Logged
"Heirs to self-knowledge shed gently their fears..."

Klapton Isgod

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4193
  • Long-Haired, Over-Fed, Leaping Gnome
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2008, 12:40:59 pm »

Thank you, vonu, for allowing me to insert this disclaimer for "other readers".
Of course WE all knew that he meant that the primary DEFENSE of individual liberty lies in our 2nd amendment right to DEFEND ourselves and our property.  But you are right... those "other readers" who are accustomed to acts of aggression would not automatically assume this, and might even see it as an opportunity to justify their acts of aggression.
Logged
"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

Elias Alias

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4912
  • TMM
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2008, 09:43:21 pm »

Thank you, vonu, for allowing me to insert this disclaimer for "other readers".
Of course WE all knew that he meant that the primary DEFENSE of individual liberty lies in our 2nd amendment right to DEFEND ourselves and our property.  But you are right... those "other readers" who are accustomed to acts of aggression would not automatically assume this, and might even see it as an opportunity to justify their acts of aggression.

You got it, Bro. Thanks for adding another dimension of understanding.

Salute!
Elias
Logged
"Heirs to self-knowledge shed gently their fears..."

MamaLiberty

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25985
  • Non aggression, self ownership
    • The Price of Liberty
Re: Fully Informed Jurors!
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2008, 07:18:30 am »

I'm going to gently tread on some toes here, I suspect, even though I'm fairly sure we're all on the same page in reality...

Why do so many say, "...2nd amendment right to DEFEND ourselves."  Human beings have had the absolute right of self defense, from the dawn of time, everywhere on the planet. The 2nd amendment has little or nothing to do with it except to acknowledge the fact for Americans. If the entire constitution and bill of rights vanished today, our right to self defense would not change.

I know you all know that...

I just wonder how many people who never learned that are confused by this 2nd amendment reference.

Logged
The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10   Go Up