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Author Topic: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.  (Read 15918 times)

RagnarDanneskjold

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2007, 11:30:33 am »

This is an interesting thread in light of what I read the end of last week. I have a part time gig at night stocking shelves in a local grocery store. On break, someone had left a copy of one of those checkout rags (Sun, National Enquirer, don't remember which one) open on the table where I was eating my frozen pizza rolls (after I heated them in the nuker). There was an article about Edgar Cayce's prophecies. They claim he foretold that the American Indians would take back all their land. They would start by setting off small nuclear devices in urban areas. At some point they would make it known who was behind it. Then they would demand all their land back, get it, and make whitey become slaves.

And now this. Auuughhhhh, we're all doomed.  :tinfoil:
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Ghost

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2007, 01:47:34 pm »

A friend of mine is Sioux and I will check with him to see if he's heard anything about this...

here is a link to some other stories http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/006449.asp
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Junker

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2007, 02:29:16 pm »

From above: "Four activists, including Russell Means, were in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday to announce their plans."

From another: "A delegation of Lakota leaders delivered a message to the State Department on Monday..."

Representing the Lakota nation or just four radicals?


One could hope for a widespread action—it'd be liberating—but, I'd expect
multiple Waco actions. And this time the targets are not WASPs, but "ill-begotten
half-breeds and injuns".

It really seems that agorist trade networks is the way to proceed in order to
develop a lasting freedom rather than just trading US govt thieves for Indian-
Council thieves.

Still, it's agitation and the more of that there is, the better the chances of
wakening the lumbersome, silent majority.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2007, 03:49:45 pm »

Very interesting...

Quote
A group of "freedom-loving" Lakota activists announced a plan Wednesday for their people to withdraw from treaties their forefathers signed with the U.S. government.

Seems to me an awful lot of people use that "freedom loving" moniker, just before they stick the knife in...

And Russel Means is a politician, first and always. I'd trust him about as far as I could throw Mt. Rushmore.
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da gooch

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2007, 05:38:52 pm »


Now now MamaLiberty don't go throwing mountains around some of us still use them for landmarks ....

"Trust" Russell Means ?   { That's a joke right ? She's kidding right ? Tell me she's kidding .... }


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yorick

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2007, 05:29:32 pm »

This is not a good thing.  The only reason they 'declared' now is because of UN support.

Quote
... when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples — despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws...

Going 'back' would include much private property (including my family's ranch)

Imagine a scenario where the UN attempts to 'enforce' Native American treaty rights against the wishes of landowners & ranchers across vast stretches of the west & midwest.

Hahahahahah



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Myrkul

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2007, 12:30:21 am »

I doubt they want to take all their land back... They are just breaking the treaties and stating that the Indian Nation is a Sovereign Nation, not subservient to the US Federal government, not a protectorate, not part of the US at all. Heh... If the Natives wanted ALL their land back, they wouldn't stop until they hit Plymouth Rock... 
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Lisa Aenne

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 08:05:21 pm »

Maybe someone can clear this part of the equation up for me.  I'd read that when the Lakota leaders went to DC and met with the State Department to declare the former treaties null and void that a delegation of indigenous Bolivians attended as well.  Is that due to the UN declaration?

After this news broke, my husband and I discussed it over lunch with a few of our children.  We were dining in a small restaurant near our shop and the people behind us were eavesdropping.  Our vocal support for the possibility of setting up a separate entity from the US bothered them a lot.  They were squirming in their seats!
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da gooch

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2007, 03:54:41 pm »

First of all Welcome Lisa Aenne
Now then ....

Maybe someone can clear this part of the equation up for me.  I'd read that when the Lakota leaders went to DC and met with the State Department to declare the former treaties null and void that a delegation of indigenous Bolivians attended as well.
<snip>

Russell Means and three or four AIM activists are not "the Lakota leaders".  They are Lakota independence activists. They do not represent the entire Lakota Nation. [See note by MamaLiberty above]

I was not aware of the Bolivian indigenous people being there that IS interesting.

<snip>
After this news broke, my husband and I discussed it over lunch with a few of our children.  We were dining in a small restaurant near our shop and the people behind us were eavesdropping.  Our vocal support for the possibility of setting up a separate entity from the US bothered them a lot.  They were squirming in their seats!

Don't you love it when the sheep get nervous ?
It means that they aren't able to envision any sort of society without Nanny State to run things.
It means that you have just blasted their secure little cocoon away ....
It also MIGHT mean that they make some sort of report to the local JBT in an effort to curry favor for themselves.
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Watch your six.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 03:57:31 pm by gooch »
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2007, 04:56:11 pm »

A good friend of mine, who is AmerInd himself, sent this in response to my question about this:

Sorry to disappoint people but this is bogus: the four people and the couple of dozen supporters don’t represent their own families, let alone their clans, bands, the Oglala Sioux (one of the seven bands of the Lakota), or the entire Lakota Oyate (nation). (They may not represent themselves, depending on which personality is talking!) Russell Means loves to pull stunts like this, and apparently does not care (he is smart enough to know better!) that he is doing exactly the same thing that Red Cloud, Spotted Tail, and other “chiefs” did 130 years ago when they signed the very treaties he wants to repudiate: claiming to represent all the Lakota (or even all of the Seven Council Fires (the people usually called the Sioux, who call themselves “Allies” in the three dialects of Lakota/Nakota/Dakota)) when they did not, signing treaties obligating them to do something that virtually none of them had any intention of doing.

Of the twenty or so Lakota I’ve talked to since this “news” came out, not ONE has indicated any support or sympathy for Means’ grandstand act. It would indeed be nice if the Lakota (and a hundred other AmerInd nations – and a lot of the rest of us who aren’t enrolled in a tribe) COULD declare fresh independence from anyone else – but right now, it ain’t gonna happen – especially not with the millions a year those treaties are worth, and the billions of dollars the USG owes those tribes and the tribal members.


And, just for you, gooch, I'll keep my hands off Mt. Rushmore.  :wub:
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da gooch

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2007, 05:57:12 pm »

<snip>
And, just for you, gooch, I'll keep my hands off Mt. Rushmore.  :wub:

WHEW I can't express my gratitude .... I simply could not imagine the Paha Sapa with Rushmore gone or tipped over or upside down .... wait ...  a ...  minute  ... upside down ? 
Hmmm that would hide those obnoxious carvings wouldn't it ?
And the trees and deer and bears would all adjust pretty quickly .... Hmmm
I might be changing my mind on this MamaLiberty.  Just on that ONE mountain 'tho .... please ?
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iloilo

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2007, 05:58:37 pm »

It will be a good day in this galaxy when anyone wanting to be a "leader" must get signed authorization of agency from every individual they wish to represent.  Actually, it will be a very good day. 
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Roy J. Tellason

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2007, 01:13:26 am »

It will be a good day in this galaxy when anyone wanting to be a "leader" must get signed authorization of agency from every individual they wish to represent.  Actually, it will be a very good day. 

Wasn't that something like how El Neil had it working in TPB?  You watch what they're _doing_,  and if you don't like it you withdraw support,  until they fade away...

Sounds pretty good to me,  and very do-able with the current state of tech.
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iloilo

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2007, 02:39:18 am »

Yes, if I recall, wasn't the nation without a president for four years because no one would vote for anyone running?
Then they elected Featherstone-haugh~Fanshaw, who, perhaps, IIRC, received the revenue from recycling to run government.  Or am I mixing stories?
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Lakota Sioux Secede from U.S.
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2007, 07:50:49 am »

Get ready to throw things....

I just wonder, if we could live without a "president" for 4 years, why bother? Why have anyone at all "represent" us? What is it they could do that we can't in voluntary cooperation with others?

Just what do free people need with anything but their voluntary organizations and associations? Why any kind of central "government?"

Unless some would be willing to give that government the powers of taxation and coercion, just what could it do that individuals and cooperative associations can't?

This is exactly why I'm not prepared to support this Lakota deal, even if there was some faint chance it could succeed. They are not proposing to set up a territory without centralized government. They, as far as I can determine - and knowing Means somewhat - intend to set up something not all that different than what is already in place, just with the Lakota "leaders" at the steering wheel.

They want "freedom" from the US government, but they are not, nor do they champion individual sovereigns. They mean to rule well, but they do mean to rule...
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