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Author Topic: Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day  (Read 9822 times)

Vydunas

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2003, 09:36:20 am »

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You're good, Jac. You're good. Perhaps we'll have to appoint you our special emissary to Rosie O'Donnell or something. Can you imagine taking Rosie to the range?--Claire

It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

I blush to admit that in 3 years I have not been out to the range with my girlfriend. We've discussed it, but we've been too busy.  :blink:   I have an ulterior motive: her piece is a .25.  
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Eternal_Vigilance

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2003, 12:22:59 am »

While I think all this is a great idea, what we need to look at is the long-term discipline and enjoyment of the "ballistic arts" by the fairer sex. I am sure there are numerous gun experts who will attest that women make better natural shooters than men (perhaps due to the lack of that bragadocious hormone, testosterone?), but how many women have held records in this area?

 Personally, I think, as has been said here, women don't care for the "boys club" atmoshpere (go figure, neither do I, and I are one) and this is keeping them from several key elements in shooting. One is that you must be comfortable, which is hard to do if you're the only woman at a range. I've seen it, and it looked like it sucked (I suppose that "Dragsteress" Shirley Muldowney wondered just what the hell she was thinking from time to time...). Second, getting a chance to have a mentorship or friendship with someone more experienced, has helped make a major difference in many a good gun enthusiast today. If you don't believe me, look at all the people who've gone to Thunder Ranch, or Gunsite, like some famous author we know.

 All this being said, I've recently some across a group that, if it isn't just what the Dr. ordered, might be on the right path. I've talked with the state head of one of their chapters (Michigan), and he's a great guy. Their group, the Pink Pistols, is organized for gay shooting enthusiasts, and he has said that all are welcome to join. My point here being, that this is what is needed, a shooting group that doesn't give a damn who you are, just that you wanna shoot.

 You can find them online @ http://www.pinkpistols.org/

 Perhaps they could provide the ladies of this here forum with some tasteful Glock accessories? ;)  
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Claire

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2003, 09:19:32 am »

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My point here being, that this is what is needed, a shooting group that doesn't give a damn who you are, just that you wanna shoot.


Perhaps they could provide the ladies of this here forum with some tasteful Glock accessories? ;)
After starting this topic, I didn't have the opportunity to come back and really do it justice, so I stayed away a few days -- only to find all kinds of good ideas (no surprise) on my return.

I like "Take Your Daughter Shooting" day partly because it would give the "for the children" crowd a total hissy fit. However, I do believe that most fathers who care enough about both their firearms and their kids will do that, anyway.

I know when you try to "convert" adults to anything by argument, you don't have much chance of success. But convert them by *experience* -- now that's another matter! And the women-and-guns conversion is a big one. A big WOW: "I can do that!" and "Oh, hey, guns *don't* just 'go off' all by themselves!"

So yeah, this needs to be grownup women. But you're all right, it could be all kinds of women -- which definitely presents a problem of coming up with a good name for the darned event! "Take your girlfriend/daughter/wife/neighbor/boss/city councilwoman/mother shooting day" somehow just doesn't have that perfect ring to it.

I definitely "get" the reasons to go someplace other than a range for the first exposure -- as long as participants are really careful to choose safe locations for shooting (something over which we'd have no control, even if we described what constitutes a safe shooting site.)

I'm also all for us women taking guys. But the big conversion job needs to be done on us wimmen. (And on the more political womyn.)

Excellent point on the Pink Pistols and creating a similar "shooting can be for anybody" group. That one needs more thought & I for one am not ready to start a group of any kind. But Pink Pistols is a brilliant concept. And maybe the "take a woman shooting" day could also tie in with one of the existing women's gun groups.

Didn't know Second Amendment Sisters was coming apart at the seams. Hadn't heard. I hope it's being put back together now.

(P.S. Purple glitter is definitely "the" in look for fashionable Glockettes. Perhaps with a touch of flourescent lime green to brighten those darker winter encounters.)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2003, 09:24:45 am by Claire »
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Hunter

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2003, 09:44:08 am »

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Excellent point on the Pink Pistols and creating a similar "shooting can be for anybody" group. That one needs more thought & I for one am not ready to start a group of any kind. But Pink Pistols is a brilliant concept. And maybe the "take a woman shooting" day could also tie in with one of the existing women's gun groups.

I'll drop a few lines out and see if any of the ones who will talk to me are interested. Or for that matter have something similar going. Ideally we'd want to get ALL of them onboard. <sigh> This would have been a great idea to have prepared and present at the Gun Rights Policy Conference. Pink Pistols I don't expect to be a big problem to enlist in the effort. The main problem I would forsee is that they are pretty decentralized, so while you CAN contact Doug and get word out to their main website, the individual chapters may or may not respond.

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Didn't know Second Amendment Sisters was coming apart at the seams. Hadn't heard. I hope it's being put back together now.

I'll keep you posted. It until just about a week ago was an internal squabble that hadn't got beyond the Board and the state coordinators. Then the new board started en masse firing state coordinators who were asking them questions. That did not sit well with a lot of the members. I expect to be hearing more details about the latest round in the next week or two.

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(P.S. Purple glitter is definitely "the" in look for fashionable Glockettes. Perhaps with a touch of flourescent lime green to brighten those darker winter encounters.)

Heh heh. You're a trendsetter, Claire. Just daaahling.  
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MsNails

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2003, 11:47:01 am »

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In fact, i can't remember the last time I saw a child under 17 at a range.

 
Hello everyone!  I'm new here, but I couldn't resist the temptation to jump in on this topic.  I do believe that taking adult women (and men!) to the range and teaching them to shoot is a wonderful way of converting them (I've taken MANY men, women and children myself) HOWEVER...  I believe the BEST way, is taking children.  I was raised around firearms and strongly feel that if I hadn't started shooting at such a young age (I believe I was 8 when Dad started me on a BB gun and graduated to a .22 Remington Jet a few months later.  Within 6 months, I graduated to my father's .357 and have enjoyed shooting ever since.) I probably wouldn't have as much enthusiasm for either the 2nd Amendment or firearm sports.  If we raise our kids enjoying the sport rather than preaching to them about the Constitution, it would go SO much further into their adulthood.

I also believe that the best person to take a woman shooting, is another woman.  I recently took one of my girlfriends and her son shooting.  Her husband kept telling them he would take them, but never did.  She traveled from IL to WA to come see me, so I seized the opportunity to teach them.  Before we even got anywhere near the shooting part of it, I taught them how to be comfortable with the firearm.  Taught them each how to handle it, clean it and carry it.  Then we moved on to learning about what to expect at the range...  Possible rules they may have...  Possible "macho male BS" they may run into (which, I haven't seen in SUCH a long time!)  Once we got them comfortable holding and working with the firearms, then we went to the range and practiced loading and unloading.  Here is where being a woman teaching a woman comes in handy...  Not all, but a HUGE number of men don't take into account that men and women are built differently.  Some of us just don't have the muscle strength to handle a firearm (comfortably & reliably) the way men are used to.  I showed her and her son several ways of completing tasks and showed them the way I preformed them as well.  I told them to practice each method, and pick the one that's most suitable to THEM, rather than the "most popular" ways.  I also brought a wide selection of firearms :-) with us, rather than just one, so that they could also select the style and caliber that they liked.  I believe it's SO much more important to be comfortable with the firearm you're chosing to protect life, rather than "it was on sale, so this is what I have to work with."  When it came time to start shooting, I told them not to worry about where the projectile penetrated the target, rather get comfortable with the trigger, the recoil, the sound, the experience.  Once you get comfortable with that, THEN worry about where the holes are appearing.

The reason I bring all that up is it's been MY personal experience, that most men aren't as concerned with the details leading up to hitting the mark.  Whenever I've come across male instructors, they seem to forget that women's hands are generally smaller and we don't tend to have as much forearm strength.  We also have a tendency to be afraid of things we do not understand completely.  Women teachers seem to be more in touch with the differences.  Women can usually relate to each other better as well.  When the tension of trying something new and scary, such as shooting is on the agenda, sometimes having a male teacher can lead to even more tension and oversensitivity if the woman feels like she's being "talked down to."  I've never seen this last part myself, however every single woman that I've taken that has had a man "show them the ropes" beforehand, have all told me that was a big factor for them.

Ok, now that I've gotten off track...  Yeah, teach the women, but make sure you reach out to the kids!  Teaching adult women will make a tiny impact now, but teaching the kids will make a huge impact in the future.  Get the women out there teaching others, showing them it's not just a man thing...  Be a mentor!  LOL

Melissa (who can't remember what direction she originally wanted to take this thread)
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Bill St. Clair

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2003, 12:01:00 pm »

MsNails comments about women needing to handle firearms differently than men reminds me of a story...

I bought an old single-shot 20 gauge shotgun for my son to shoot. It has a break-open action and a hammer that must be manually cocked. I cock it with my right thumb while holding the gun in the shooting position (finger off trigger, of course). My son doesn't have the strength for that. He cocks it by holding the gun in his right hand, and pressing the hammer back with his left thumb. This allows him to use his arm and shoulder muscles instead of his thumb muscle, which he can easily do. He discovered this method himself. I, of course, taught him to cock the hammer BEFORE inserting a shell and closing the action, just in case his thumb slips off. He loves shooting traps.
 
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Storm

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2003, 01:08:48 pm »

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I know when you try to "convert" adults to anything by argument, you don't have much chance of success.

I have not found this to be the case. Sure there are ideologues who hold their ideas so sacred that no discussion or question of those ideas will ever be considered, but those who do not themselves adopt that self-same attitude and engage others likewise willing to actually discuss the issues and seek out solutions can be swayed by reason and argument. In fact I could not tell you the number of statists, individuals who could quite accurately be described as ideologues, who now either deny or at the very least doubt some of the beliefs that were core to their ideology, all after simply discussing the issues honestly, openly, and without using emotional bullying or personal attacks. Allowing them the possibility that they might teach you something allows them to be in a comfortable enough position that they will likewise be open to new ideas and arguments. If you have done the necessary background work, there is no reason to fear honest and open discussion of this sort.

If you enter into the situation using antagonism, animosity, and looking for a fight, then you are absolutely correct, you will not have much chance of forcing others to adopt your view, but if you demonstrate that you are in the same position as they are, in that you are both seeking solutions to the same sorts of problems, then you will be surprised just how successful you will be in changing minds and starting others on the road to freedom.  
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Sunni

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2003, 02:53:53 pm »

Well, where to begin?  :)  I've had lots of opportunities to talk about firearms and to debunk myths in my past life as a college prof. Most were fairly turned off, but every term I saw a few whose mental light bulb went "DING!".

One of my favorite stories, though, is of a friend whose grandfather was a Russian Communist, and whose father was an American Communist ... he hated guns, would barely tolerate being in the room with mine. But before I moved out of the state, by talking about it whenever he brought it up, and by not being confrontational but simply answering his questions, he came around to where he could hold my handgun. I heard from him after he'd lived in KA for a while -- he'd been befriended by some Objectivist-types out there and had become a shooting enthusiast! I never set out to "convert" him, just to talk with him and always tried to point out the errors in his information or reasoning.

As many here know, Lobo and I have taken our young children shooting regularly. We've never hidden our guns from them, but have always insisted that they treat them with respect, and safely, as do we. They began shooting as soon as they expressed interest -- about 3.5 and 1.5 years of age, IIRC -- with very close adult supervision. The result is that the older child is fairly conscious of several firearms issues, is very thoughtful about muzzle control and gun safety in general, and both enjoy shooting and have never shown any fear. Sometimes they'll ask a question while we're in public -- my favorite is when we go to Wal-Mart to get ammo and they start asking questions. The conversation invariably continues as we shop for our groceries, often resulting in many shocked looks from those who overhear it.   :lol:

If someone's interested and shows the capability of following the safety rules, who cares what their age, sexuality, or sex is? Just take 'em shooting, and show 'em a good, and safe time.  B)
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Don Galt

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2003, 06:45:02 am »



NOTE TO ANY WHO THINK THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've  been threatened with expulsion for disagreeing with one of the moderators friends.  Thus, since there are people here who you cannot disagree with (Apparently, a major chunk of the participants) this is not effectively a discussion forum.

I will not participate in a forum where my posts are modified to change thier meaning, and where I am threatened with expulsion if I dare to disagree.

Thus I am removing my participation, and I caution you to be wary of yours.

Good Day--

The man who lives for no other.
 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2003, 10:08:37 pm by Don Galt »
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Storm

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2003, 08:37:39 am »

Don,

My own experience at ranges has been that in almost every case there is an atmosphere that does not encourage new shooters. The attitude is that if you do not already know everything about firearms and shooting then you should not be at the range, and sadly there is still a great deal of the attitude that women should not be shooting. Demonstrations of this attitude range from standoffishness to snide comments and berating. And then of course there are the gun snobs, the ones that will tell you that there is only one weapon to use or carry (often this is the 1911 45, but I've seen it with other guns as well)

However, returning to the topic, even if all of this were imagined, I suggested taking the newbie to a place where it is just the two of you so as to remove all distractions, real or imagined, and thus retain the focus on the goal. Make the individual as comfortable as possible so that they are most receptive to the activity.  
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Eternal_Vigilance

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2003, 11:42:02 am »

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Quote
In fact, i can't remember the last time I saw a child under 17 at a range.

 

I also believe that the best person to take a woman shooting, is another woman.  I recently took one of my girlfriends and her son shooting.  Her husband kept telling them he would take them, but never did.  She traveled from IL to WA to come see me, so I seized the opportunity to teach them.  Before we even got anywhere near the shooting part of it, I taught them how to be comfortable with the firearm.  Taught them each how to handle it, clean it and carry it.  Then we moved on to learning about what to expect at the range...  Possible rules they may have...  Possible "macho male BS" they may run into (which, I haven't seen in SUCH a long time!)  Once we got them comfortable holding and working with the firearms, then we went to the range and practiced loading and unloading.  Here is where being a woman teaching a woman comes in handy...  Not all, but a HUGE number of men don't take into account that men and women are built differently.  
Melissa,
 
 Bravo! How I would LOVE to hear more of this! I never could figure out why wormen were relegated to talking about kids and cooking. Aren't women intelligent enough to handle complex machinery? If you can drive a car, you can bloody well shoot! You really set a great example here. I don't know if I overlooked it, but did they enjoy themselves? Seems like that's as important as anything. While teaching ladies to shoot safely is, of course, wonderful, getting them to enjoy it is even better. Case in point, I showed my wife my "95 Chilean Mauser this morning and she actually looked! (Sad, I know, but it's something, at least)

Randall
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Sunni

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2003, 11:55:22 am »

Don requested:
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Could someone provide examples of bad experiences? Possibly with things to watch out for to prevent them, but if someone was just a jerk, I'd like to hear it.

I've shot at several ranges from the midwest to the west, and my experience has varied wildly. In some places I've been treated very well, in others quite poorly. One of my more memorable negative experiences came at the range where I first learned to shoot -- I cut my teeth on a 12-gauge shotgun.

I'd been shooting many times and had become a pretty good shot. On this particular fall Saturday, the range was extra-busy with hunters practicing and checking equipment, loads, etc. Many of the newcomers were in groups of 3-5 men, and I noticed that, no doubt in part because I was the only woman there, I was attracting a lot of attention. Most of it wasn't very positive, which I attributed to the double "handicaps" of being both a femme and a lefty.

I pretended not to notice the pointed stares, pokes in ribs followed by whispers and snickers, etc. Then, when I was done pulling and it was my turn to shoot, I calmly loaded up, stepped up to the line, and proceeded to powder all 25 clays for my turn.

The staring and whispering stopped. I ended up shooting something like 98 for 100 that day ...

Being safe, practicing good firearms etiquette, and minding one's own business go a long way toward preventing individuals from acting like jerks. But if someone wants to do so, he or she will -- just go about your business and ignore the individual(s). Chances are excellent doing all this will show him or her to be even more of a jerk than s/he might've demonstrated otherwise.
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amy

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2003, 01:52:31 pm »

I feel selfconscience when learning and practicing in public. I don't do a lot of shoting and so don't feel very confident. I would prefer to shot at someone's private shotting range with only friends around. It might make it more comfortable for some women to go shoting with a few other women as a group.  
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Zefferon

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2003, 06:49:54 pm »

How are you girlz coming along with your marksmanship? (markspersonship?)
 
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Bear

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Take Your Girlfriends Shooting Day
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2003, 08:00:45 pm »

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Later, I took her to a closed range where some guy wanted to try his courage with the .45-70. From a 15" bbl, that is an impression you are not likely to forget in a closed room. It was a 50 m range and we shut almost all lights down. the muzzle flash was like an ancient Flak gun, a torus of 18" diameter (not kidding) and the sound was a deep-belly BOOOOOOM. Might be something for people oversensitive for high-pitched sounds. That left another deep impression on her...

Are you talking about a big pistol or a short rifle? Who made this weapon, or was it
a gunsmith project piece?

Bear

 
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