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Author Topic: To Protect and Taser  (Read 6384 times)

Homesteader

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To Protect and Taser
« on: August 17, 2004, 08:49:31 pm »

:angry:     I live down here in hurricane prone country, though I didn't get it bad from Charlie.  Not this time.  This story (among far too many these days), makes me think it's time.  Maybe past time.  The boot on our neck is too heavy, and it's all coming too fast now.  (Damn, I'm pessimistic about it all.)  This guy just wanted to go home!!!

http://www.local10.com/video/3659037/detail.html
« Last Edit: August 17, 2004, 08:51:11 pm by Homesteader »
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debeez

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2004, 09:19:47 am »

It seems like we are left with little choice...stay in your home during a storm and risk injury and death, or leave and have to get permission from the PTB to return back to it.

I'd almost rather stay, so I didn't have to deal with being controlled by others later.
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Christine
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Desertrat

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2004, 08:57:50 pm »

Have you ever been near the path of a really serious hurricane?  Or, have you ever worked disaster relief in such an area?

Think extra-long days.  Heat.  Humidity.  Food on the run, water when you remember.  Think fatigue.

Ever tried to think rationally when you're fatigued?  

It doesn't take much of a spark to set off some really stupid "conflagrations" in such situations.

That resident could easily have accidentally gotten in the way of a utility crew, and had a light pole dropped on him.  Or, gotten in the way and caused some injury to some relief-work guy.  "But, I just wanna go home!"  Well, yeah, so does that guy from Missouri who's putting in 16-hour days and more.  (I saw quite a few crews eastbound on I-10, this last couple of days.)

And the cop's tired and some guy drives up and gives him grief and it's just one dab of grief too many; the 185th he's heard that day...

And so it goes.

'Rat
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Bobaloo

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2004, 10:54:11 pm »

Quote

And the cop's tired and some guy drives up and gives him grief and it's just one dab of grief too many; the 185th he's heard that day...

And so it goes.

'Rat
The cop's feet are tired, so he gets a pass for using excessive force on a guy?  The type of force that could cause permanent injury?  How about if I'm having a really bad day, because my house just had the roof torn off, and I've got to try to salvage what I can before exposure to the elements destroys it.  And some punk-ass cop starts giving me lip, and won't let me go to MY OWN HOUSE, so I get pissed off, knee him in the nuts and break his jaw as he's going down.  Do you think the other cops would say, "No, let him go, man, he's just having a bad day."

Apologizing for this f??cker is no different than saying it's ok for cops to start grabbing guns whenever a cop gets shot.  After all, they're having about the worst possible kind of day, right?  So if they violate your rights, rough up your wife and kids a little bit, then we really should be understanding, because they're under a lot of stress.  Crap.  The stress of living in a near-police state is starting to get to me, and I don't feel entitled to trample someone else's rights, so why should they?
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byron

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2004, 12:05:14 am »

I have had various thoughts on this incident. It was reported the day before that people were griping and grumbling that help was slow in coming. In other words, the people wanted government to fix it "now" so they could go back to their life in paradise. So help was slow in coming and some guy wants to go home and gets tasered when he tries. Seems to me you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you expect government to fix things, you don't get to dictate too much. With government you get to stand in line and wait. And if you complain, expect some illiterate gum chewing flunkie to make your wait even more miserable.

In regard to tasers, this incident is one of those duck bites I reckon. Police departments are warming up to their new toy with increasing speed. Where I live, choke holds are being barred and tasers are taking their place. Many local news programs show the local coppers being trained on their use, while touting the  safety aspect their use brings to both the giver and the receiver. So, in turn, the cops are going to take less crap from the object of their concern and be quick on the draw....... Wait until reports start surfacing that some country boy gets pulled over, and the cop tasers his dog riding in the bed of his truck because the cop felt threatened by that big old cowdog when cop approaches the truck, or some old-school grandma gets tasered because she dares to argue with that cop that she was in the process of pulling on that seatbelt and had not actually left the Dairy Cream parking lot yet................ I saw a COPS program a few months ago and the cop tasered an upset guy who was standing there telling his story to the cop, and the cop felt threatened because the guy was being demonstrative with his arms when speaking. So, while I hope nobody on this board gets tasered, when the every day sheeple begins getting tasered more and more on a daily basis, maybe it will be a good thing in the long run.
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Scarmiglione'

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2004, 06:33:08 am »

Cop 1:  Sir, we can do this one of two ways.  The hard way, or the easy way.

Citizen:  Look I was just trying to get out of that maniac's way when...

Cop 2: [snick] [TZZZZZZZZAP!  TZZZ!  TZZZZZZZZZZZZZAP!]  [grin]  The easy way!
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We've built a world safe for fools, and are overrun by them.

Desertrat

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2004, 12:19:09 pm »

And so you know from that TV clip that the guy made no threatening comments to the cop?  Didn't begin to drive forward?  You know all the antecedent conditions that existed before the TV clip was filmed?

I wish I did.

I didn't say the cop should get a free ride.  I'm trying to point out that the event was no part of any of this "Police State" BS that people are so prone to.

And I do believe I'd rather get tasered than shot, if I acted idiotically in such a situation...

'Rat
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H.M. WoggleBug, T.E.

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2004, 01:05:10 pm »

Rat - I think one issue is that perhaps the cops are not making a choice between tasers & guns. Rather, they're choosing between rational discourse and tasers.

The fear is that the ratcheting up of a "situation" seems to be happening faster with the advent of this new toy.

Not sure I articulated that very well.

'Bug
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Scarmiglione'

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2004, 01:18:31 pm »

That's sort of the point I was trying to make with my reenactment.

Sure, non-lethal weapons may *may* mean fewer "death by cop" scenarios.  But there is already the forseeable effect that when armed with an assortment of non-lethal weapons, the police are going to be more and more apt to use them.

In short, nonlethal weapons are the grease on the slope between maintaining peace and commanding subservience.

Why spend 10 minutes talking to the asshole when you can just taser him and have him carted off and out of your way.  It's a lazy and slothful way to deal with people and encourages "force first, think later" behavior.

 
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We've built a world safe for fools, and are overrun by them.

Bobaloo

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2004, 01:36:15 pm »

Tasers do have a few things going for them.  As far as I know, they're one shot only, and they have to pierce the skin.  Seems like there's a good chance that you won't get stuck, depending on what you're wearing.  The biggest advantage I can see is that when the cop puts his hand on the Taser, his hand ISN'T on his gun.  If a cop can claim that a tape recorder looked like a gun, so he shot a civilian, what would happen to a civilian who shot a cop because he thought the Taser was a gun, and the cop was trying to kill him?
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Bear

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2004, 07:50:24 pm »

The video is kind of grainy, but if I understood what I was seeing, three cops pulled the guy out of his car
and THEN tazered him when they had  him pinned against the car. At that point there is no threat to them,
and it's just f******g vicious.

The non-lethal weapon fans would say, "at least he isn't dead". True, but I imagine he's p*****d off, and will
remember this for a long time.

Bear

Notice how the talking head was an apologist for the cops.
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Tracy

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2004, 08:32:44 am »

Quote
Quote

And the cop's tired and some guy drives up and gives him grief and it's just one dab of grief too many; the 185th he's heard that day...

And so it goes.

'Rat
The cop's feet are tired, so he gets a pass for using excessive force on a guy?  The type of force that could cause permanent injury?  How about if I'm having a really bad day, because my house just had the roof torn off, and I've got to try to salvage what I can before exposure to the elements destroys it.  And some punk-ass cop starts giving me lip, and won't let me go to MY OWN HOUSE, so I get pissed off, knee him in the nuts and break his jaw as he's going down.  Do you think the other cops would say, "No, let him go, man, he's just having a bad day."

Apologizing for this f??cker is no different than saying it's ok for cops to start grabbing guns whenever a cop gets shot.  After all, they're having about the worst possible kind of day, right?  So if they violate your rights, rough up your wife and kids a little bit, then we really should be understanding, because they're under a lot of stress.  Crap.  The stress of living in a near-police state is starting to get to me, and I don't feel entitled to trample someone else's rights, so why should they?
Right on, Bob. IMHO, it's not just a NEAR-police state anymore either.
Here's the way I see this and the plethora of abusive-cop reports we are now hearing about all the time: If a bunch or Crips, Bloods or whatever tries to stop me and pull me out of my vehicle, I'm gonna come out shooting. The only difference is that if it's Crips or whatever and I manage to survive and escape, it's probably over. With THIS gang, it'll never be over. They have a very aggressive presence nationwide (if not worldwide); are VERY organized; don't let the smallest slight go unpunished; and have all the very best weapons up to and including Apache helicopters, A-10 Warthogs and M1 Abrams tanks if they feel the need (or excuse) to use them on you and any allies you may have.
They know this; every single cop in the country (if not the world) knows it. They know too that the press is on their side (like the news anchor in this case when he said the cops were "FORCED" to Taser the guy), as the press usually is in a police state.
They also disdain us because of the very fact that they know allows them to exist: because we (and I am suspending my individualistic viewpoint in order to portray their collectivist viewpoint) are stupid enough to lie to ourselves that they are our "friends" and "protectors" who "serve" us. :huh:  
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Desertrat

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2004, 10:37:03 am »

Question:  Does anybody know for sure that the taseree didn't say something on the order of, "You can't stop me!  I'm going home, whether you like it or not!" before he got pulled out of his car?

A cop who's slept, had his doughnuts and coffee and is early in the shift might continue to try to be nice to such a guy.  Little sleep, late in the shift, this clown is number 286 for the day?  Guess what?

So if you don't know everything that went on, you don't know enough to judge the deal.

Neither do I.

'Rat
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Bear

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2004, 11:53:34 am »

Quote
Question: Does anybody know for sure that the taseree didn't say something on the order of, "You can't stop me! I'm going home, whether you like it or not!" before he got pulled out of his car?
A cop who's slept, had his doughnuts and coffee and is early in the shift might continue to try to be nice to such a guy. Little sleep, late in the shift, this clown is number 286 for the day? Guess what?
So if you don't know everything that went on, you don't know enough to judge the deal.
Neither do I.

The three cops had him outside of his vehicle and pinned against the side before they tasered him. Why not just
handcuff him and put him in back of the patrol car until he sees their point of view?


Sorry, but the cops having a bad day does not excuse the use of electric shock, particularly when there are other
less violent ways to solve the problem.

Bear
 
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ultralongrunner

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To Protect and Taser
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2004, 10:52:40 pm »

The taser is a neat new toy, but I've seen it not work on occasion.  Sometimes it doesn't fire.  And you can only old it on someone for a set amount of time.  Once they let off the trigger, you can get up and still fight.  Had a patient that they tasered, one with the wires and one that didn't (they ground the none shooting one into his kidney and let loose) and then they fed him a can of pepper mace.  It still took four police officers, a fireman and me to get him on the cot.  It was fun being the back of the ambulance with this winner.

Cop management loves them because the the taser has a built in connector that looks like a network connector so you can download the particulars of an engagement.  It just warms their bean counting little hearts.  

The interesting thing is that we (the paramedic ambulance service I work for) isn't authorized to remove the barbs, we have to call the local fire department who has recieved special training for this skill. Our medical director won't let us learn and I don't blame him based on the liabiltiy.  

I can hardly wait for the next gee whiz toy that they come up with.  

ultralongrunner
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