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Author Topic: Primaries today--I wrote myself in  (Read 11532 times)

azcoyote

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Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« on: September 03, 2008, 12:03:03 am »

I got a letter from my local Lib party guy a couple weeks ago about who I needed to write in on today's primary ballot. I guess they volunteered to run after the ballots were printed up. So I did the dutiful thing and and went to vote and wrote them in. One is for the House (fed-type) and the other is for County Supe of Schools. Otherwise, the Libertarian ballot was blank. Than kind of ticked me off.

I know that the Tucson chapter has always been less effective than the Phoenix one, and that pissed me off even further.

I went to vote about 4 PM. The poll workers had to open a pack of Libertarian ballots just for me. I may be the only registered Libertarian in my precinct. Since I had to write these 2 names in anyway, I asked them, could I write any name in the other slots? they said sure. So I wrote myself in for Constable. Constable handles minor civil cases and you don't need to be a lawyer to be one. What the heck? I'm a rational, fair kind of person. I could be a constable.

What I don't know is whether my name will actually appear on the Nov ballot. If it does, well and good and I will campaign for the job in my small precinct. If not, then I may have to think about how to do it right next time. I think it's a 2 yr term.

But this got me thinking--if we want to change things, we have to be willing to run, even if it's for a "small" positions like Constable. And maybe especially for the "small" positions, the ones we might win. Do folks running for Constable have campaign war chests? Of course not. Does the average voter even care about who is Constable? No, they vote party. So if somebody running for one of these "small" positions actually went door-to-door to campaign, I think it would be a big hit. I remember this long-shot Fed-House guy coming to my door to talk to me. I voted for him. He lost, but I voted for him because he took the time to come to my door and talk to me one on one.

The sheeple don't know who or what a Constable is/does, but I bet they will remember the one who comes to their door and talks to them about issues that effect them. They will vote for that person come election day. It just takes time, not so much money.

Vote for me!

Coyote
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 08:09:24 am »

Do YOU know what the constable does? Not saying you don't, just asking. How do you envision that helping you or anyone else live free or reduce the tyranny?

Here is a short quote from something I find very valuable in this discussion. http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=6651.msg51666#msg51666

Quote
If you're not voting to buck the system or have thrown the towel in, what exactly can you do to CHANGE the system in an equal or more effective way.

Nothing.

This is the hardest thing to get people to understand when I bring up non-voting.  Especially to politically active people, because "politically active" is usually defined as trying to change the system in some way or another.

I'm not interested in changing the system.

First, because it is futile. The country has the system the majority of voters want, and I don't have the skills to change that many people's minds. Few people do, and it seems that an individualist, market and freedom-oriented mindset precludes that ability, at least to the extent that is required to effect any real change anymore. Second, the country has the system the majority of voters want, and I don't want to try to force them to change what they want. It can't work anyway, and so the best way to convince people to stop wanting it is to stop trying to make it work.  Third, working within the system in any form strengthens it.

I want to withdraw from the system, and let it starve.
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The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 02:13:46 pm »

Working with a system precludes working with people.......and people that want to work within a system waqnt change......but change suitable to them........and that's why they work within the system..........because they see some good aspects to the system and only want to change those aspects that they see as bad.........

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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

awrm

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 04:02:16 pm »

Ron Paul started with 12 "spammers" sending out e-mail. He managed to get enough supporters to fund his counter convention in Minnesota last week. It is possible to start small.

The advantage of starting with a local position -- like constable -- is that you can actually go door to door. Going door to door could actually be a good thing. "Oh, Mr. Coyote! He's that nice young man who came by and talked with me about the city. I think I'll vote for him!"

In the last town I lived in a no-name lawyer was running for mayor against a 3 term, good ol' boy incumbent. He went door to door in a town of 29,000 people. The new guy didn't win, but he only lost by 5%. Usually, the incumbent won by at least 25%.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 04:13:24 pm »

Quote
It is possible to start small.

Still trying to figure out why anyone would want to in the first place. Why join the bad guys?
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awrm

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 05:06:14 pm »

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-- Ed Howdershelt
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 05:17:59 pm »

Using in that order is how we got where we are today..........

And personally......I only believe the last box will be the box that gets something done......because the on;ly tool governmenmt has is force.......and the only tool it recognizes is also force......hence the US kissing the ass of strong countries and kicking the ass of the weak..............

Yet the last box can either be defensive or offensive......and I'm hoping the later is the way things'll go down.....
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

MamaLiberty

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 05:32:21 pm »

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-- Ed Howdershelt

Zoot is so right... that's how we got here - because the last one keeps getting left out.

The ammo box is the only thing that gives the others any legitimacy or hope of effectiveness. Since most Americans have abandoned their right to defend themselves, the other three are patently useless.

Try to picture coming up against a murderer while holding a ballot. Then picture the same thing holding a gun. Which one works for you?
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kirgi07

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 12:15:05 pm »

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-- Ed Howdershelt

Zoot is so right... that's how we got here - because the last one keeps getting left out.

The ammo box is the only thing that gives the others any legitimacy or hope of effectiveness. Since most Americans have abandoned their right to defend themselves, the other three are patently useless.

Try to picture coming up against a murderer while holding a ballot. Then picture the same thing holding a gun. Which one works for you?

Ma'aM.I kinda disagree, to work within the system is the only way ta beat the system.The .Gov folk out number us point blank.The only way ta beat that disparity is ta vote.An armed insurrection would be quashed out the gate.We need ta turn there dictatorship in on itself.Let there own policies grind them down.You vote and continue ta do so.Granted there are some of are Ilk that can't anymore,They can and should be raising hell about there beliefs,It don't matter whether I agree or not/they still have the right ta speak their mind.

That is the only way ta affect change,don't give a f ck and speak your mind.

Goin ta the gun will get this movement and all others destroyed.It is much easier ta work within the established rules than ta go postal and try ta make your own.Less effective maybe/more productive yes. Ought 7.




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MamaLiberty

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 12:57:58 pm »

This pretty much sums it up for me. There is no way to change the system, and every attempt just makes it stronger.

Right War, Wrong Battlefield   http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/08/09/08/bennett.htm
By Kyle Bennett

I'm not interested in changing the system.

It is futile. The country has the system wanted by the majority of voters, and I don't have the skills to change that many people's minds. Few people do, and an individualist, market and freedom-oriented mindset is incompatible with that ability. The system operates collectively, only collective action within it can be effective, but a message of individual freedom cannot be effectively forwarded by collective means.

The country has the system the majority of voters want, and I don't want to try to force them to change what they want. Even so, this system can't work for much longer anyway, the best way to convince people to stop wanting it would be to stop trying to make it work.
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Tahn L.

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2008, 01:08:24 pm »

Has there been a thread that discussed the comparative points in total withdrawal vs. trying to change the system?

 I have always thought that to vote for the lesser of two evils would only perpetuate the evil.  It does but IF you can win, then you have a lesser evil. Still bad but lesser.

If you could continue to ALWAYS vote in the lesser, you would have a continued lesser degree of evil, until at some point it would become what it was in the beginning. Not very evil, compared to now.

 On a local scale, becoming the lesser of evils might be a helpful method to inform/reform.

Just wondering if this has been discussed per sey.
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All human beings have two dogs within them. A good dog and an evil dog. The evil dog is always attacking and fighting the good dog. Which one wins?
The one you feed!
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Government is a meme, woven within a supporting memeplex.

Who ever frames the argument, kicks ass.

From MamaLiberty; "The Price of Liberty (is) self ownership, self control, integrity and non-aggression."

"The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil". MamaLiberty

kirgi07

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2008, 01:16:31 pm »

This pretty much sums it up for me. There is no way to change the system, and every attempt just makes it stronger.

Right War, Wrong Battlefield   http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/08/09/08/bennett.htm
By Kyle Bennett

I'm not interested in changing the system.

It is futile. The country has the system wanted by the majority of voters, and I don't have the skills to change that many people's minds. Few people do, and an individualist, market and freedom-oriented mindset is incompatible with that ability. The system operates collectively, only collective action within it can be effective, but a message of individual freedom cannot be effectively forwarded by collective means.

The country has the system the majority of voters want, and I don't want to try to force them to change what they want. Even so, this system can't work for much longer anyway, the best way to convince people to stop wanting it would be to stop trying to make it work.

Voting is the only way ta affect change.If'n .Gov tries ta tilt the field in there favor all bets are off.You run what you brung STS. Ought 7.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 02:41:48 pm by kirgi07 »
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kirgi07

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 01:20:58 pm »

Has there been a thread that discussed the comparative points in total withdrawal vs. trying to change the system?

 I have always thought that to vote for the lesser of two evils would only perpetuate the evil.  It does but IF you can win, then you have a lesser evil. Still bad but lesser.

If you could continue to ALWAYS vote in the lesser, you would have a continued lesser degree of evil, until at some point it would become what it was in the beginning. Not very evil, compared to now.

 On a local scale, becoming the lesser of evils might be a helpful method to inform/reform.

Just wondering if this has been discussed per sey.


We hit at the same time.You got ure post up first,I won't Edit mine. Ought 7.


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MamaLiberty

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 01:22:06 pm »

Quote
Just wondering if this has been discussed per sey.

I guess that depends. Seems to me that the article cited here addresses that clearly.

By giving any support to the system AT ALL, one simply is supporting the system and thereby prolonging its influence on your life, not to mention everyone else. And the idea of always choosing a little less evil each time seems terribly simplistic anyway. Why not then, choose NO evil, ever? Wouldn't that work even faster? I think so.

Choosing ANY evil not only perpetuates evil, but it may (and usually does) desensitize the chooser to what is evil. In order to tolerate the choice, they probably can't continue to see it as evil at all... maybe "unfortunate" or something instead.

How can one with a clear understanding of what evil is and does choose to perpetuate it, even by increments?

That doesn't mean we will then be able to choose to eliminate the evil altogether each time the dice roll, of course, but only that we refuse to participate in imposing ANY evil on others.
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Tahn L.

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Re: Primaries today--I wrote myself in
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2008, 02:05:58 pm »

Quote
Just wondering if this has been discussed per sey.

I guess that depends. Seems to me that the article cited here addresses that clearly.

By giving any support to the system AT ALL, one simply is supporting the system and thereby prolonging its influence on your life, not to mention everyone else. And the idea of always choosing a little less evil each time seems terribly simplistic anyway. Why not then, choose NO evil, ever? Wouldn't that work even faster? I think so.

Choosing ANY evil not only perpetuates evil, but it may (and usually does) desensitize the chooser to what is evil. In order to tolerate the choice, they probably can't continue to see it as evil at all... maybe "unfortunate" or something instead.

How can one with a clear understanding of what evil is and does choose to perpetuate it, even by increments?

That doesn't mean we will then be able to choose to eliminate the evil altogether each time the dice roll, of course, but only that we refuse to participate in imposing ANY evil on others.

MamaLiberty,

 I certainly understand the desire to withdraw from the system in the hope that it withers up and dies. Even when I voted for Ron Paul, I felt a bit "dirty". Still, IF he had been elected we might very well have contributed to a dramatic withering of the state machine. But only for having voted for the lesser (in his case, much the lesser) of the evils would this had happened.

In the article quoted (and thank you for posting it) it stated:

"Simply abstaining from the ballot box is not enough, nor is it a firm requirement. The agorist approach does not preclude political activism, it merely puts the focus outside the system. There can still be benefit from strategically, or tactically, trying to intervene in the system against carefully selected targets. So long as it is approached as intervention not participation, ways of doing so effectively and without contributing to the system can be imagined. Several such plans have been forwarded that, while not explicitly so designed, can easily be fit into an interventionist framework as opposed to a participatory one. The two prominent Free State movements are both examples."

Especially on a local level or possibly in the case of a real potential change in the national or state level (Dr. Paul) I can see the advantage as they called it, voting for the lesser.

A they stated in the article, "Nor is convincing others not to vote a requirement. The agorist approach does not require that it be exclusive, only that it be present as a viable alternative. It assumes the system as it is, complete with over one hundred million willing and active participants. Getting a few of them to stop in and of itself will not have significant effects. Offering them an alternative that will improve their own lives will have significant effects on them, and that is what matters."

I must say, that if I had to vote between Thomas Jefferson and FDR, I would do more voting FOR (in my opinion) TJ, than by abstaining and allowing FDR to win.

Even incremental changes in the reduction of evil can be rewarding to myself and insightful to others. I think.

Mamaliberty, you stated "And the idea of always choosing a little less evil each time seems terribly simplistic anyway. Why not then, choose NO evil, ever?"

 I do not necessarily believe that by not voting, you are choosing "NO EVIL". You are choosing to let others pick the evil they want. We did not get into the mess we are in now by suddenly choosing a BIG EVIL. It happened incrementally over a large period of time, by plan. The socialist/statist cabal knew that even a small change towards their end desire can lead to the next time, just going a little further. They have successfully "compromised" liberty (such as it was) at every small step. Why not small steps to reverse it?

I think it would be hard to justify in my mind and conscience, not supporting or voting for Dr. Paul for president or Azcoyote for constable. I am not trying to "save the system", I am trying to use a "peaceful" method to reduce the evil that the system created.
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All human beings have two dogs within them. A good dog and an evil dog. The evil dog is always attacking and fighting the good dog. Which one wins?
The one you feed!
  Native American Story

Government is a meme, woven within a supporting memeplex.

Who ever frames the argument, kicks ass.

From MamaLiberty; "The Price of Liberty (is) self ownership, self control, integrity and non-aggression."

"The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil". MamaLiberty
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