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Author Topic: B.A.R.T. Shooting  (Read 22423 times)

da gooch

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2009, 10:49:58 am »



Step Right Up Klapton
Don't Talk .... Walk.

I have already started on my part.

1- I own no Land.  For LOTS of reasons but in this case so that I will pay no one any Fees, dues or taxes.

2- I trade or barter as much as is possible in my AoO.

3- Any "income" I have that is reported [on 1099's] I keep below the "Poverty Level" which lets me get back Most of the money they demand.
[without a head to head battle, for which I am not prepared, with the IRS Goons I "allow" them to openly steal the medicare and SSI stuff.]

various other options are in the works and will be reported upon their completion.

So .... Step Right UP my good man ....
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2009, 11:07:32 am »

Eventually I'll get there.  First I have to achieve the kind of self-sufficiency I need.  I'll be selling this suburban home in spring/summer, and paying cash for my land / mobile somewhere very rural.  I plan to keep my good paying telecommuting job (and paying the required protection money) for several years to build a permanent home, barn, and set up my homestead.  Once that is done, I might consider voluntary poverty as a means of starving the beast.  But for now, my current flow of FRNs is most helpful toward reaching my goals for the future.

But this is not the revolution I'm wishing for.  I wish we would have a wide-spread, outright tax rebellion.  And no...  I'm not volunteering to lead it, lol.  Go ahead and call me a coward or hypocrite if you like.  I've been called worse.  I still like myself, and a handful of others do too.  My mom still loves me.  All is well.
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"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

MamaLiberty

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2009, 02:22:46 pm »

Quote
  But we need a wide-spread effort to starve it on purpose.  By that I mean, we need a nation-wide, non-violent tax revolt.  With SO many people refusing to pay that there simply wouldn't be enough JBTs to arrest them all.

I'm afraid this is the proverbial chicken and egg question. I'd like to see it go down this way too... but I'd like to hear just how it could happen. How do you get enough people to do that before the collapse? Afterward, it isn't going to matter much and the only option left to us will be to defend ourselves and the survival property we've prepared, by any means necessary.

I think some of you are still confusing that self defense with an armed offense. They are worlds apart, especially in the beginning. Might we have to take some offensive action once THEY start the shooting? I don't know. Some may, and some may choose not to do so.

If we start an armed offense, yes, we lose the respect of most people - including most of those who are accepting us now.

If we must simply defend ourselves, that probably won't happen - or if it does in some cases, won't be relevant.

We must keep the high moral ground by making sure we do not start the shooting war if it is to come.
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dogsledder54

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2009, 02:31:18 pm »

The U.S. will suffer the same fate as the USSR. Just as Ronald Reagan saw that the Soviet Union would bankrupt itself if faced with an arms race, I, Private Joker, unemployed clairvoyant, see that the US is spending itself out of existence by way of this new, unlimited, ever-expanding mother of all bailouts. They just don't know it yet.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2009, 02:34:15 pm »

Quote
  But we need a wide-spread effort to starve it on purpose.  By that I mean, we need a nation-wide, non-violent tax revolt.  With SO many people refusing to pay that there simply wouldn't be enough JBTs to arrest them all.

I'm afraid this is the proverbial chicken and egg question. I'd like to see it go down this way too... but I'd like to hear just how it could happen. How do you get enough people to do that before the collapse? Afterward, it isn't going to matter much and the only option left to us will be to defend ourselves and the survival property we've prepared, by any means necessary.
Oh, I don't know...  Maybe handing billions of dollars to rich bankers in a bailout in spite of enormous public outcry against it?  Aw crap.  The did that, and we let it slide.  Hmmm...
Quote
I think some of you are still confusing that self defense with an armed offense. They are worlds apart, especially in the beginning. Might we have to take some offensive action once THEY start the shooting? I don't know. Some may, and some may choose not to do so.

If we start an armed offense, yes, we lose the respect of most people - including most of those who are accepting us now.

If we must simply defend ourselves, that probably won't happen - or if it does in some cases, won't be relevant.

We must keep the high moral ground by making sure we do not start the shooting war if it is to come.

The problem with the whole "who started it" thing is the media spin.  I remember hearing the Waco massacre reports on the news, and at the time thinking exactly what "they" wanted me to think -- "Effing kooks, shooting at the feds and burning themselves to death!"  It was MUCH later that I learned the truth that FedGov was clearly the aggressor, comitting mass murder.

If they gun down a crowd of people holding hands and singing Kum-Bye-Yah (i.e. 100% non-violent civil disobedience ala MLK / Ghandi), then even the most ignorant dumbasses (i.e. most of the sheeple in amerika) can't help but know who the bad guys are.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

MamaLiberty

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2009, 03:15:21 pm »

Quote
The problem with the whole "who started it" thing is the media spin.  I remember hearing the Waco massacre reports on the news, and at the time thinking exactly what "they" wanted me to think -- "Effing kooks, shooting at the feds and burning themselves to death!"  It was MUCH later that I learned the truth that FedGov was clearly the aggressor, comitting mass murder.

If they gun down a crowd of people holding hands and singing Kum-Bye-Yah (i.e. 100% non-violent civil disobedience ala MLK / Ghandi), then even the most ignorant dumbasses (i.e. most of the sheeple in amerika) can't help but know who the bad guys are.

The difference between this and the big collapse is that we're not going to be talking about an isolated group here or there. The MSM has lost TONS of credibility since then too. They continue to do so. More and more people are starting to question both the MSM and government itself. But in the end even that won't matter. Those who are prepared to survive will have a chance to survive. Those who have prepared nothing and relied on uncle sugar are not going to be amused, and they are not going to sit by and starve quietly.

When all of the major cities in the US - and maybe the world - erupt into desperate starving masses, looting, burning and all the rest - the MSM won't have a thing to do with it, I suspect. Especially if the whole utility grid goes down.

Remember that the "FED" can only continue to print worthless "money" for so long. Once the tipping point is reached and there is no perceived value in it at all, the presses have to stop because nobody will accept them in exchange for goods. It won't matter if the bankers hold one or 10 zillion of them. We have far more than that to worry about, considering the tangible assets they hold, and how long they can hold them.
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Scarmiglione'

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2009, 03:28:21 pm »



If they gun down a crowd of people holding hands and singing Kum-Bye-Yah (i.e. 100% non-violent civil disobedience ala MLK / Ghandi), then even the most ignorant dumbasses (i.e. most of the sheeple in amerika) can't help but know who the bad guys are.

Never underestimate stupidity.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2009, 03:39:07 pm »

I think we are talking about different scenarios, ML.  I was suggesting the idea that enough sheeple wake up and non-violently disobey and demand their Liberty back - hoping that this might happen BEFORE a complete socio-economic collapse.  In such a scenario, while the media still operates, it would HAVE to be non-violent to succeed.

I know it's not effing likely.  But why not dream?

If we are talking about TEOTWAWKI, that's a whole nother thing.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

MamaLiberty

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2009, 04:50:01 pm »

After fighting for 40 years to wake up the sheep, I gave up. I don't think that is even a remote possibility. I hope I'm wrong.
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Claire

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2009, 08:31:35 am »

I know this discussion has veered off from the original incident, but ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477849,00.html

"Protests Over Shooting of Unarmed Man by Transit Police Turn Violent in Northern California"

Quote
Dellums later directed the city's police department to conduct a third investigation into Grant's killing and to treat the incident as a homicide.

"My sense of it is that people for whatever reason do not have confidence in this investigation as it goes forward," he said. "When I learned what was happening, I summoned the Oakland Police Department and said, 'Look, this is a homicide that happened in Oakland, let's investigate this like we would any other. Whether or not that will give people greater confidence, I don't know. We'll see."

Grant's family has filed a $25 million wrongful death claim against BART and want prosecutors to file criminal charges against Mehserle.

Amateur video of the shooting have played frequently on local news stations, giving even more publicity to the incident. Burris said Wednesday that one of the latest videos of the shooting shows that Mehserle did have a Taser on his left side, but he went for a gun on his right side, instead.

"The video supports the position we are taking and eyewitnesses' testimony that the officer deliberately went for his gun and there's no mistake about it," Burris said. "He didn't reach across for his Taser. He couldn't have been thinking about that. He went directly for his gun."
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canadian

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2009, 11:13:49 am »

Quote
"My sense of it is that people for whatever reason do not have confidence in this investigation as it goes forward,"

Yeah, I can't imagine what might lead them to that conclusion... :rolleyes:
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Claire

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2009, 11:52:33 am »

Quote
"My sense of it is that people for whatever reason do not have confidence in this investigation as it goes forward,"

Yeah, I can't imagine what might lead them to that conclusion... :rolleyes:

Yep. I almost bolded that line when I posted it. But I figured that, given the proclivities of the TMM gang, somebody would spot the irony right away. Canadian, you get the merit badge for being first.

Claire
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Just as the flattery of friends often leads us astray, so the insults of enemies often do us good. -- St. Augustine, Confessions, Book IX, Chapter 8


When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


My life is my message. -- Gandhi

canadian

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2009, 01:56:14 pm »

Canadian, you get the merit badge for being first.

Woot! I love winning things!
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Orca

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2009, 05:28:01 pm »

Neither the news story nor the video surprised me.  In fact, my response was more like, "Well, there they go again!"  I was only caught by the brazenness of the murder... right out in the open with lots of witnesses.  They would usually carry out this sort of execution somewhere in a darkened alley or remote area then plant a weapon on the victim's body.  The police culture of "us" vs "them" and not ever snitching on a fellow officer works against justice and always has.  What has happened that makes one think we are in some escalating police brutality?  Is it the militarization of our civilian police agencies and them acting on it?  Is it better reporting and news distribution of events such as this? Its maybe those two and a lot more.

One thing is certain... I will never be one of those unarmed demonstrators singing "Kum ba Yah" and getting martyred so that "the people" will get behind the movement.  Who are these "the people"?  Are they the ones who don't now bother to stay up on what's going on in this country?  Are they the ones more interested in American Idol or next weekend's NASCAR race than in what's happened to their liberty?  Well, I don't need them! In our first revolution only a small percentage of the residents of the colonies supported the colonial effort to separate from Great Britain and become a new country.

With all this talk about gun confiscations and disarming American citizens I have to wonder,  who will do these confiscations?  The federal government is broke.  They are in denial, but they are broke.  Cities and counties around this country are in bad financial condition which will only get worse.  Many states are teetering on the edge of insolvency.   just look at California.  I simply cannot imagine some big push orchestrated from on high to sally forth and take all privately-owned firearms.  My local Sheriff's department won't do it.  They are all local boys and girls, and only a few at that.  The Sheriff is a constitutional position, elected by us.  The state?  Let's see... insufficient staffing for one.  Also, they would probably become very disinterested once they begin to be shot if (and when) they begin dong confiscations.  The feds?  Really?  Its not like our tyrannical federal govt. has magic on their side.  This is a lot of work for them, and they will never be successful at doing it.  I bet they wouldn't collect one percent of the firearms in private hands.  Oh, they will just control ammo supplies.  Yeah, right.  If smugglers can smuggle tons of dope into this country undetected, how long would it take to smuggle ammo if there were buyers?  And,if you are going to be considered a criminal anyway, why not do ahead and smuggle the select-fire stuff?

I don't have a crystal ball.  I do, however, believe in the principle of Hakim's Razor.  To paraphrase, the simplest  solution is probably the correct answer.  We tend to whip threats out of proportion regarding the feds and their capabilities.  They are obviously not very smart people.  There's nothing they involve themselves with that approaches anywhere near being described as a success.  Be patient.  Keep prepared. Maintain your humanity, but prepare yourselves to do what's both right and necessary when the time comes.

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da gooch

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Re: B.A.R.T. Shooting
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2009, 07:51:40 pm »

Neither the news story nor the video surprised me.  In fact, my response was more like, "Well, there they go again!"  I was only caught by the brazenness of the murder... right out in the open with lots of witnesses.  They would usually carry out this sort of execution somewhere in a darkened alley or remote area then plant a weapon on the victim's body.  The police culture of "us" vs "them" and not ever snitching on a fellow officer works against justice and always has.  What has happened that makes one think we are in some escalating police brutality?  Is it the militarization of our civilian police agencies and them acting on it?  Is it better reporting and news distribution of events such as this? Its maybe those two and a lot more.

One thing is certain... I will never be one of those unarmed demonstrators singing "Kum ba Yah" and getting martyred so that "the people" will get behind the movement.  Who are these "the people"?  Are they the ones who don't now bother to stay up on what's going on in this country?  Are they the ones more interested in American Idol or next weekend's NASCAR race than in what's happened to their liberty?  Well, I don't need them! In our first revolution only a small percentage of the residents of the colonies supported the colonial effort to separate from Great Britain and become a new country.

With all this talk about gun confiscations and disarming American citizens I have to wonder,  who will do these confiscations?  The federal government is broke.  They are in denial, but they are broke.  Cities and counties around this country are in bad financial condition which will only get worse.  Many states are teetering on the edge of insolvency.   just look at California.  I simply cannot imagine some big push orchestrated from on high to sally forth and take all privately-owned firearms.  My local Sheriff's department won't do it.  They are all local boys and girls, and only a few at that.  The Sheriff is a constitutional position, elected by us.  The state?  Let's see... insufficient staffing for one.  Also, they would probably become very disinterested once they begin to be shot if (and when) they begin dong confiscations.  The feds?  Really?  Its not like our tyrannical federal govt. has magic on their side.  This is a lot of work for them, and they will never be successful at doing it.  I bet they wouldn't collect one percent of the firearms in private hands.  Oh, they will just control ammo supplies.  Yeah, right.  If smugglers can smuggle tons of dope into this country undetected, how long would it take to smuggle ammo if there were buyers?  And,if you are going to be considered a criminal anyway, why not do ahead and smuggle the select-fire stuff?

I don't have a crystal ball.  I do, however, believe in the principle of Hakim's Razor.  To paraphrase, the simplest  solution is probably the correct answer.  We tend to whip threats out of proportion regarding the feds and their capabilities.  They are obviously not very smart people.  There's nothing they involve themselves with that approaches anywhere near being described as a success.  Be patient.  Keep prepared. Maintain your humanity, but prepare yourselves to do what's both right and necessary when the time comes.


emphasis mine

I'm pretty sure from your thumbnail sketch of it that what you are referring to is Occam's Razor.
But spelling matters aside ....
I don't think you'll get a whole lot of argument, on the principles you are promoting, from the membership here.

I too don't think it will get very far if they ever decide to try the door to door confiscations. 
The cities will probably suffer worse than the medium and small towns.
Yet another reason to leave the city [any city] NOW.

The one thing that the bat feces and the rest of the alphabet soup of gov agencies do do well is killing without compunction.
It could be the psych testing they take to get the job ?
Morals of any kind are not encouraged as far as I can tell in any of the .gov agencies.
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