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Author Topic: Reality Sets In HERE  (Read 13655 times)

Who...me?

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2009, 11:45:55 am »

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A comment about the stoners in the 60's was uncalled for and very false. I knew a lot of  brave stoner motherfuckers, and a couple are lifelong friends. (They weren't the ones who sat around the airports and taunted people like me in uniform either)

The stoners comment was not intended to include every single individual from that time period, or for that matter anyone that uses drugs in any form. Perhaps I didn't express my thoughts clearly. My intention was to refute IBR's assertion that those that survived the 60's did so by following his plan which is to run away. That any resistance is a waste of time.

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Unless you're a young man just coming home from Iraq or something like that, I'd suggest another way. But I do realize some are going to have to fight, even though they cannot and will not succeed. Their hearts are all in the right place, but their heads should calculate the wisdom of the survivors from the 60's.


As far as expatriates, my comment only included IBR himself and in no way referred to anyone else who actually is one.

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I'm  just a peaceful hippie with guns and I don't want to fight anybody, but I will stand up for myself and my pacifist friends if trespassed against.

This statement kinda sums up my whole argument. According to IBR If you stand up for yourself, against anyone trespassing against you, you are wasting your time. Because you can't win. In fact unless you take off and move to his Indian Bell Ranch you must be stupid because you don't "get" it.

So anyway I try to avoid using, in gooch's words, to broad of a brush. I never intend to include every individual of any group in a generalized statement. I know full well that people are individuals and even within a group everyone is still different.
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"If you are in a fair fight, Your tactics suck"

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IndianBellRanch

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2009, 12:08:55 pm »

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A comment about the stoners in the 60's was uncalled for and very false. I knew a lot of  brave stoner motherfuckers, and a couple are lifelong friends. (They weren't the ones who sat around the airports and taunted people like me in uniform either)

The stoners comment was not intended to include every single individual from that time period, or for that matter anyone that uses drugs in any form. Perhaps I didn't express my thoughts clearly. My intention was to refute IBR's assertion that those that survived the 60's did so by following his plan which is to run away. That any resistance is a waste of time.

I don't know HOW you got the idea that I ran away! Far from it. I think you missed the point that I lost everything but my life. Yes, I even lost my family. I fought like you cannot believe until I found it is useless. Sorry, I wasn't clear enough about the idea it was only the 60's. It was actually from the 60 - 95. I left in 1995 though I had lived more than a year in Brazil a couple years before that.

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Unless you're a young man just coming home from Iraq or something like that, I'd suggest another way. But I do realize some are going to have to fight, even though they cannot and will not succeed. Their hearts are all in the right place, but their heads should calculate the wisdom of the survivors from the 60's.


As far as expatriates, my comment only included IBR himself and in no way referred to anyone else who actually is one.

Quote
I'm  just a peaceful hippie with guns and I don't want to fight anybody, but I will stand up for myself and my pacifist friends if trespassed against.

This statement kinda sums up my whole argument. According to IBR If you stand up for yourself, against anyone trespassing against you, you are wasting your time. Because you can't win. In fact unless you take off and move to his Indian Bell Ranch you must be stupid because you don't "get" it.

So anyway I try to avoid using, in gooch's words, to broad of a brush. I never intend to include every individual of any group in a generalized statement. I know full well that people are individuals and even within a group everyone is still different.
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You misunderstood my position about standing up for one's self, and I don't think that was even the point. I'm talking about an armed resistance movement in the US against the selected government of the people, regardless of how unconstitutional it is. Waging a part in that kind of a war is fruitless, illegal, and will only get you dead. THAT is what would be stupid.
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2009, 01:27:28 pm »

You misunderstood my position about standing up for one's self, and I don't think that was even the point. I'm talking about an armed resistance movement in the US against the selected government of the people, regardless of how unconstitutional it is. Waging a part in that kind of a war is fruitless, illegal, and will only get you dead. THAT is what would be stupid.

Interesting opinion. I disagree completely. If we the people ever rise up against the federal government, the government will last a couple of months, at most. Once the politicians and their handlers, the bankers, realize that they are fair game, and once a goodly number of them have fallen, the fight will end very quickly. Unfortunately, what rises from the ashes isn't likely to be much better than what it replaces. But it will probably be an improvement for a little while at least.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Who...me?

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2009, 02:19:03 pm »

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I don't know HOW you got the idea that I ran away! Far from it. I think you missed the point that I lost everything but my life. Yes, I even lost my family. I fought like you cannot believe until I found it is useless. Sorry, I wasn't clear enough about the idea it was only the 60's. It was actually from the 60 - 95. I left in 1995 though I had lived more than a year in Brazil a couple years before that.

I am truly sorry that you lost your family, I would not wish that on anyone. But by your own words I got the impression you have lived all over the place.

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Just a bit about me is that I have lived on:

Continents: (1) North & (2) South America from Alaska to Florida in North America and from Venezuela to Brazil in South America. (3) Europe in Holland, (4) Africa in Central African Republic and Cape Town, South Africa. Finally, (5) the sub-continent of Asia in India from Bangalore to New Delhi to Mumbai.

Islands: (1) Java, Indonesia, (2) Hong Kong, People's Republic of China, (3) Cebu City, The Philippines, (4) Sint Annaland, Tholen, Netherlands, (5) Sint Maarten, Dutch West Indies and finally (6) Honolulu, Hawaii.

I have managed to live free in a very unfree world and to appreciate very many cultures. I can finally say I found the most free place to live in the place I looked last for it. Surprised is far from telling how really surprised I was.

Again allow me to express my sorrow that you lost everything in your life, loss can be a bitter pill. I don't wish to minimize your loss, sacrifices or experiences. But on the other hand that is exactly what you do and say when you tell me that my own losses, sacrifices and experiences are just wrong, and since I do not see things YOUR way I am then wrong and wrong headed for my belief that resistance is never a waste of time. Even if I give my life to resist tyranny, so that my children do not have to live under a worse gov than I did, does not make that life that I would freely give a waste.   
Every opinion or conclusion that I have reached is pulled from your statements on this very forum.

I'm sorry that you gave up the fight, but don't you dare say that those that continue to fight are stupid because they waste their time in the pursuit of freedom.

That is my 2 cents and all I have to say on this matter.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 02:36:07 pm by Who....me? »
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"If you are in a fair fight, Your tactics suck"

"The kind of man who demands that government enforce his ideas is always the kind whose ideas are idiotic." - H. L. Mencken

IndianBellRanch

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2009, 08:54:05 pm »

You misunderstood my position about standing up for one's self, and I don't think that was even the point. I'm talking about an armed resistance movement in the US against the selected government of the people, regardless of how unconstitutional it is. Waging a part in that kind of a war is fruitless, illegal, and will only get you dead. THAT is what would be stupid.

Interesting opinion. I disagree completely. If we the people ever rise up against the federal government, the government will last a couple of months, at most. Once the politicians and their handlers, the bankers, realize that they are fair game, and once a goodly number of them have fallen, the fight will end very quickly. Unfortunately, what rises from the ashes isn't likely to be much better than what it replaces. But it will probably be an improvement for a little while at least.
Well, Good, Bill! You're entitled to your own opinion. Ya know what, Bill? If it were really to be a easy as you say, I'd say, "Let roll! What are we waiting for?" You can see they didn't even blink an eye at "Tea Party." They think it's only the Republicans. Ha!

I ran into a man named John Grandbouche in Denver, Colorado during 1974 who started what I think was called "The National Tax Strikers." Something like that. John told me that the fight was all but over. Later they took him to prison, and from the maltreatment he got, he died not that long after. Another woman who was big with him was taken to prison and she too died, etc., etc., etc. I had Irwin Schiff in my home and we became friends. What has happened to him? I've lost track, but I think he languishes in prison to this day. He wouldn't be much good for your war either, I don't imagine.

I think you're blowing a lot of well intended hot air, Bill, and I think you'd be massacred in a minute. I also think it would last a lot longer than 2 months, and in that case you'd be one of the lucky if you were still running from them. Incidentally, how old are you, Bill? Have you ever served in the armed services? And do remember, My Good Friend and Fellow Patriot, I prognosticated your war clear back in 1968. All the best! IBR
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tex703

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2009, 04:08:14 pm »

So, would having a 1-5 month supply of the basics and other stuff suffice or would you say more?

I was wondering if the economic collapse does happen how long do you think it wil last??
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2009, 08:20:33 pm »

think you're blowing a lot of well intended hot air, Bill, and I think you'd be massacred in a minute. I also think it would last a lot longer than 2 months, and in that case you'd be one of the lucky if you were still running from them. Incidentally, how old are you, Bill? Have you ever served in the armed services? And do remember, My Good Friend and Fellow Patriot, I prognosticated your war clear back in 1968. All the best! IBR

I agree with you there. I will likely personally be massacred pretty early in the war. Fine with me. My time on the planet is up in 20 years anyway. But I'm a middle-aged, overweight, untrained, geek. There are plenty of military-trained freedom lovers out there who would do just fine in a guerrilla war.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

IndianBellRanch

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2009, 09:10:50 pm »

So, would having a 1-5 month supply of the basics and other stuff suffice or would you say more?

I was wondering if the economic collapse does happen how long do you think it wil last??
I would say, MUCH, MUCH MORE! It will take years to sort it out and I'll tell you why. The delivery from farmer to wholesaler to retailer to consumer is too fragile. In third world countries they still take one independent family's production to the local market by ox cart. If they don't do their own delivery, they have only their next door neighbor to depend upon or the entire family carries all they can on their heads and backs. So, in the final analysis, if you're not growing your own food you will starve. Remember Joseph Stalin? He alone manipulated the starvation deaths of more millions than Hitler! By now folks should no longer be saying, "Can't happen here." If you're old enough you wouldn't have imagined that homosexual marriages would be matters of state law.

God has promised a time where everything that can be shaken will be shaken. This is a war that cannot be won. It has to simply die down. By that time, and my best educated guess is after 2020, there will be a time when we will be able to have a "say." Just look out, however, that the anarchists don't get into it again, because the "sheeple" are not going to have any such thing. They are lazy and want a king, president or emperor. The man that forces his way to the top to ensure anarchy will have just as tough a time and will be a killing dictator to get his way. This is a long run, Folks. There is simply too much to fight against. I should know. I wasn't able to win it peacefully at all. Vindication by every one I know who thought I was crazy, including my ex-wife and brother (woot!), has not settled well, because we still lost the Republic.

The first grocery store that closes its doors due to "no food" goods, will start such a panic in the US that whatever you're growing there for food will have to be guarded. The best places will be where an enclave would band together for 24 hour mutual protection, and I'm sorry to say that THAT place does not exist in the US. Better to be in an area where it is least effected by the US dollar. The really fortified places will be the shortest lived and hottest campaigns and such utter annihilation of them will send the "proper message" to all others.

I mentioned Joseph Stalin, are you aware that cannibalism was rampant? Anyone who had ruddy cheeks was a suspected cannibal. Children and young people vanished from sight.

I don't know how long or how bad it's going to be in America, but I can suggest this: Because Americans have not had to suffer much at all in these departments, it's going to be much worse than any of us can tell. I truly suggest getting out'a Dodge. And I do have learned reasons for suggesting no return before AD 2020. They are not published for general readership.

My own idea is to find mostly retired persons or carefully checked out younger ones who have more money than experience (brains), but people who have enough assets to sell now while they can still get something out of it, and go to a developing country where their purchasing power is amplified significantly. (You are aware of the law that the bad always chases the good out, aren't you? Silver coins, educated in Eastern Germany, etc.) My enclave would have these retired persons in a developing world where the future is very bright, where electric and water is naturally assured, and where there is no infrastructure for food delivery other than by local farmers to local markets. Such a fortunate few can fix up a place where like minded folks would have room for their children and grandchildren to flee just before it gets the hottest. The only problem with that is determining when the train just before the last one out is going. Shortly there after there will be no way out. Haven't you noticed that when the last train is leaving town that most people don't think about it until it's just leaving the station? Then they all want to get on, and that stops that last train. This takes some very positive foresight over a very negative situation.

Be very careful of any place in the Americas, and Africa is out. Europe is out. I predict there will be such a rush to Australia and New Zealand that it will not be worth even trying to go there, and any place you could get to would make living like a savage. Crowded Asia is the only place that offers some hope and is one reason why few would think to even look. And China is probably not one of those choices. So, figure it out!

I would rather be an optimist and be wrong than a pessimist who proves to be right. The former sometimes wins, but never the latter.

IBR

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IndianBellRanch

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2009, 09:36:17 pm »

think you're blowing a lot of well intended hot air, Bill, and I think you'd be massacred in a minute. I also think it would last a lot longer than 2 months, and in that case you'd be one of the lucky if you were still running from them. Incidentally, how old are you, Bill? Have you ever served in the armed services? And do remember, My Good Friend and Fellow Patriot, I prognosticated your war clear back in 1968. All the best! IBR

I agree with you there. I will likely personally be massacred pretty early in the war. Fine with me. My time on the planet is up in 20 years anyway. But I'm a middle-aged, overweight, untrained, geek. There are plenty of military-trained freedom lovers out there who would do just fine in a guerrilla war.
Bill, My Friend, let's talk. I'm not sure about you being middle-aged, over weight and untrained, but I agree with you that you're a Geek. We need you. Right now you're just not thinking but reacting. I fully well understand it. But suicide will not help our progeny. More of them are going to live than who die, and they will need your good Geek thinking to help them when THAT time comes. Forget the idea that you're saving only yourself like a coward. [I suggest the following Genesis 15:13-16; 29 - 33; 35; 37; 39 - 50. One boy saved seventy lives from starvation.] You'd be helping to save an entire way of life which was destroyed by the socialists who thought they knew better and by those who unwittingly followed. When everything dies down the socialists will be seen to be who and what they were. They'll probably be many of those who are killed. Many of them will be killed by snipers who don't tell a soul what they did, but who just keep on keeping on until they get killed. But eventually the whole war effort will die of it's own accord. Then everything is going to have to be put back together again. It's going to need brains and experience. So, please don't waste yours or your assets. I'm older than you, and I still expect to be around. If I'm not, my sons will have a great deal to say.

IBR
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2009, 10:15:55 pm »

Interesting idea, if I thought that the universe would continue to exist once I leave it. Can't say I'm decided on the question, but even if it does continue to exist, once I'm gone, I really don't care what happens on planet Earth. Selfish? You bet.

I will not be taken alive. Yes, it is possible to survive imprisonment. No, I don't want to do it. Hell, once the power goes out, planet earth becomes a very boring place for yours truly. Might just make it time to leave. My contract doesn't include hardship. I already think I was sold a bill of goods when they convinced me to be born here. The universe is a pretty good high school science project, but certainly not a long-term deal. Yahweh shows promise, when he grows up, but you expect me to LIVE here?

It's late, so I'm rambling a bit, but maybe you get my drift. Less and less am I able to take the whole manifestation joke seriously.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Bill St. Clair

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2009, 06:53:18 am »

Gee, it WAS late. I was in full-on crazy-man mode last night. Got a lot of code written, though. Up till 4. Gonna be a punchy sort of day.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

IndianBellRanch

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Re: Reality Sets In HERE
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2009, 09:17:28 am »

Gee, it WAS late. I was in full-on crazy-man mode last night. Got a lot of code written, though. Up till 4. Gonna be a punchy sort of day.

He, he, heh, he, he

IBR
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