Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Who...me?]

Found this in the Archives. Wondered if anyone had ever tried it.

Doc (at www.bigsecrets.cc) contends that the best ballistic barrier that can be improvised on a low budget is a lamination of 1/8" steel plate, 1/4" plywood, and 1/8" steel plate. In other words, cover both sides of plywood with steel plate. It won't stop .50 caliber rounds or RPGs, but most shoulder fired weapons can be stopped with this barrier.

[Mr. Dare]

Dirt. Best bullet trap in the world.

[Polearm]

That website takes you to a place that wants to sell you the domain name.

Websearch for "bigsecret" lists serveral more buy this website hits. 

Not the best body armour I could get or make.

[Who...me?]

 
Not the best body armour I could get or make.

Ya I wasn't thinking of it as body armor. But I could think of a few places in my house that I could put a 4'x4' piece  to make a defensible position. Anything that would take a few rounds that I could use as cover if needed. We all know that walls in your house won't stop incoming rounds. Or for that matter outgoing rounds. A piece under the drywall would make a nice backstop halfway up my stairs. I'm sure my neighbor would really appreciate it. Or maybe one behind the headboard of my bed with a handle so I could pull it over to the doorway but it would be hidden most of the time. Anyway just trying to think out of the box.

I figured JWR might know about it since it was posted on SurvivalBlog originally.

[Polearm]

You know, house armour makes more sense.  It basically gives spaced armour with a shock absorber in the middle to help with absorption. 

If you're thinking of it, do it soon.  Prices of all types of metals are going up.. fast.

I'd still not want to wear it..

Although, when I was in Bosnia in '94, some of the Bosnian storm troopers had hand forged steel breast plates for use in storming trenches.  Ungodly heavy, but sort of reliable.

My contention is that the link doesn't work as advertised.

[jimp220]

for house armor I have a bunch (50) 50 cal ammo cans that came from India I bought for $1 each.  They are poor quality but I was thinking if they were filled with 3/4 inch gravel they would probably make a good bullet stopper and could be stacked anywhere one wanted a defensible postition.

[Mr. Dare]

Sand is better. More mass, smaller particle size, absorbs more energy and disperses it better. Rock may be harder, but hardness really isn't your friend in this case. Gravel can become shrapnel with a really hard whollop.

[Polearm]

Jimp, the ammo boxes is a great idea.  Easily moved as required.  It also passes the everyday test.  Easily placed once things start looking bad.  Bad thing is they tend to not stack like bricks very well..but I might have a solution.

I'd agree with Mr Dare though, use sand.  They would be like metal sand bags. 

If I might suggest, place a piece of foam or something where the holes from bullets passing through "close", on one side of the inside of the can, the "outside".  Then paint the "outside" a distinct colour (this side towards enemy).  This should help keep some of the sand in the box once holes start to appear in them.

I'd think that some sort of retention method would be in order.  If the boxes start falling down, especially while you are taking cover behind them, they can really hurt.  If they were "permanently" located, then some sort of revetment would be in order.  Use something like corrugated metal around the inside of the "foxhole", forcing the cans against the wall, and this in turn held in place by steel pickets, say wired and then windlassed to the wall studs.  (windlassing, for those new to this term, is when you take a piece of wire wrap it several times around a couple of strong things a distance of a couple of feet apart, insert something strong into the opening between the strands and twist them together, causing them to wrap around each other and become tighter.  Used in fencing of all manner)

Bug netting and 2 x 2's can be your friend too.  Build a structure inside of your window, sort of like a closet but opening towards the window, and attached the bug net (door screen, but not the metal type) to the inside three sides, like a curtain.  This will act like sheers.  You can see out, but unless there is a light on in the room you are in, they can not see in.  Beware of other windows in the room.  You can shoot from behind this (like, a few feet behind it) and the people outside won't easily detect where your shot came from.  After shooting a few rounds, move to a new location.  Eventually, any dunder head will figure that just blasting away at a window will probably hit you.  Stay low.  Pre-position ammo at each location.  Yell to others in the building.  Alone?  Fake it.  Just yell from different locations to your "allies".

Both suggestions come from an older "Urban Warfare" manual.  Maybe US, Maybe Canadian.

[Texasbound]

Wouldn't a brick home or at least a half brick facade be far more useful, easier and cost effective?

[Klapton Isgod]

I'm going to build my home with minium 12" diameter logs.  Something very much like the ones in the LHBA Student galleries here:  http://www.loghomebuilders.org/image/tid/3

[Who...me?]

Wouldn't a brick home or at least a half brick facade be far more useful, easier and cost effective?

Check out this web site.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/

[Polearm]

Texas, yes, the brick or half brick would be great in making your house look, feel and be more durable, however, it is always good to have a "safer" area to be in if someone was shooting real big rounds at you.

In a video I found ( so long ago, I can't remember where) showed what would happen if certain things were fired at certain types of material.  Cinder block, brick, steel plate, 2 x 4, log (fence post size).

The .308 and up types (NATO ball, AK-47, G-3, Garand.. etc) went clean through the cinder block and 1 inch steel plate at ranges of up to 100 yards (it was all they could test it at, it was a 100 yard indoor test range).  In some cases, hitting the target was more the issue.  If some yahoo is shooting with an automatic AK-47, does it really matter where he is hitting?  Eventually, the wall is going to start to give in.  With other smaller calibers, the round may not have penetrated with one, but might shatter the block, causing a hole to be made for other rounds to enter.

Next consider the fact that a fair number of people have purchased retreats with pre existing wooden frame houses that are fairly old.  Adding brick to the house, while a great idea and nice looking, will represent a huge investment in time, effort and cost.  Remember, something like that would likely require a building permit and the fees and inspections that would require.

Who..  Thanks for the "Box O' Truth"  I'm frankly amazed at how far the .22 penetrated.  It is truly one of the most under estimated rounds.

[Who...me?]

Ya it is a real eye opener when you see how far bullets will penetrate things folks think of as cover. At best most things are only temporary. Even 2 feet of reinforced concrete will only work until it is worn away. Cover is just a place to stop a few rounds so you can return fire and stop the threat. Which was the original point to the post...something anyone could make to provide real cover in your house.
 Sandbags are great(and I have quite a few ready to fill) but most houses couldn't take the weight without reinforcing the floors. Also it is something you probably wouldn't leave there all the time. So I was looking for something a little less obvious.
 Something like this (http://bulletproofme.com/PHOTO%20pages/Tactical-Ballistic-Blanket-PHOTOS.htm) would work but wouldn't stand on its own and only covers a little space. Also one of my concerns is rounds down range as you are responsible for anything that leave your weapon.
 I have a pact with my neighbor on one side of me that we both watch each others house and if need be offer tactical support and we are both storing supplies. I think he might have a small problem if bullets start penetrating his walls. For better or worse my defensive weapons for the house are a 12 gauge
and a .45. Both of which will smoke through the walls of my house.
 Anyway thats what I am trying to avoid.
 

[da gooch]

This may not work .... but I am trying to be helpful ....

How about using sandbags and building up a wall of sandbags on the outside of the house ?
Built up to about three feet above the interior floor level and stuccoed on the outside afterwards it wouldn't look that bad and it would make the floors a near safe haven.
Or those stack and soak concrete bags for making retaining walls and landscaping.
With ballistic blankets hung above on one or two sides you would have a place to stand and return fire with your MBR. All the while the rest of the family is didi mao-ing out the escape tunnel.

IF one had the wherewithal the entire wall could be "covered" and for the curious neighbor sand or dirt has excellent heat retention or reflection qualities.
"Just trying to save on the heating and cooling bills." or "Cheap external insulation. How are you beating down the utility bills ?"

A vapor barrier should be placed between the exterior wall and the sandbags to avoid water absorption by the wall and the subsequent rot. [dry rot] AS well as small screened vents below the house to allow for air circulation beneath the house as well.
[avoids molds, etc.]



 

[Wheatfields]

If you're creating a defensible position on a 2nd floor, don't forget to protect the floor!  It would suck for you if you had armored walls and thought you were good to go, and a home invader just fired up through the ceiling.