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Author Topic: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM  (Read 78000 times)

da gooch

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2009, 04:09:45 pm »

OK
Mayport, Fla.
Just north of Jacksonville.

I don't see the correlation.
Can you help me with that ?
Practicing landings isn't the same thing as actually assaulting American citizens like the DEA and swat teams are doing daily.
In direct violation of the Fourth Amendment I might add.

Cross training with other countries is not in violation of the Constitution as I understand it.
Can you help me with that part ?
I am always interested in learning.

I would bring this map to your attention.   MAP
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2009, 04:21:15 pm »

I find it alarming when ANY nation (including the US) has their troops on someone else's soil.  One of the Oathkeeper "orders we will not obey" is about having foreign or UN troops in the US as "peacekeepers."  So, this is indeed disturbing.
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Contrarian

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2009, 04:25:57 am »

Some say the world is very very old. Some say the world is just very old.  So What.

That article says the Congress ceased to exist with the Civil War.

I say that Congress declared WAR in the 1940's and never closed the books on it.  How is that for legalese?  That explains all of these police actions and conflicts.  WWII is still ongoing.  What matters is that we AGREE on the fact that things are not what they should be, or what we were led to believe no longer applies at this time.  A certain balance of power is missing for what ever the reason, and we want that balance restored.

WWII isn't the only war on going. The Civil War part II is only just begun.

If congress ceased to exist in 1861, all orders, laws and acts emanating from the body are null and void... since 1861.
Please reread that...

The Constitution itself and the Union have literally been dissolved. We are an "ad hoc" Nation, with "laws" of convenience, and nothing more.
This is how I was fooled, this was the beginning of the flanking maneuver on the part of those who would enslave.
So, my mission is the re-enactment of the Constitution. As Bush stated, the Constitution now is just a damn piece of paper, and Obama merely reiterates that statement with his actions and the fact that he is holding title to America, at all. In fact, without his birth certificate on file at the Dept of Commerce, Obama may hold claim to being an actual free man, whereas you and I, with our SSN and Military service are not.
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I will not die for some damn piece of paper, but for the words and ideas written upon that page.

da gooch

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2009, 10:22:14 pm »

I find it alarming when ANY nation (including the US) has their troops on someone else's soil.  One of the Oathkeeper "orders we will not obey" is about having foreign or UN troops in the US as "peacekeepers."  So, this is indeed disturbing.

Where in the article did the troops participating in the landing drills act as Peace Keepers ?

I'm NOT trying to defend any foreign troop placement on our soil. 
I just don't see troop training maneuvers as "the last straw".

I don't like it much BUT gabbing about it here isn't helping us in our "reaching out to the active duty folks about their Oath and its meaning" duties is it ?

There are threads aplenty to grouse about this kind of thing on the rest of this website and numerous other websites as well.

I try real hard not to read the end of the world in my cereal every morning.  I find it helps me in my outlook somewhat.

YMMV
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Disavowed spook

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2009, 01:25:53 am »

Assuming that there are military personnel trained and educated in the philosophies of warfighting here I submit these;

1. West Point instructs all graduates that the Second Ammendment applies to military and government sanctioned agencies and cultivates the attitude that "citizens have no right to bear arms in defiance of established government" . This is a direct quote from several non-related West Point grads whom were immediately kicked out of my assorted barbeques over the years with extreme predjudice.

2. Soliders from all branches when placed under the command of NATO or UN are manipulated into betraying thier oath and few seem to question the fact that they have been pawned.

Both are incrimental tactics empoyed to blur the comprehension of lawful orders which INCREASINGLY are "exercised".
Allys are neccessary, but should never corrupt National Sovereignty.

Since a supreme Court ruling is offered as justification I offer that too, the 9th circut found as a matter of fact that "..fulminated mercury in vaccines is good for" [you]...

Sadly, incrementalism errodes the concept of right and wrong, and as another poster above alluded, they "don't see anything wrong with it", with regards to foriegn troops landing on US soil. This is how multiple branches of US military have repeatedly "conducted drills" and practice operations with joint interenational task forces on US soil.

Historically our forces have both covertly and openly instructed and advised international forces abroad. When the conjoined forces are on US soil it is a violation of Posse Comitatus circumvented by technical legalese implemented to condition The People to accept it.
In the opinion of many it is preferable to send our troops abroad for these "exercises", and in the case of one Marine base commander I am aware of that is what happens to you if you are a jarhead that cannot keep your hands off his wife,..you get sent to Belarus to train thier police for a third go around. Point is, it took a personal offence to motivate this base commader to do the right thing.

The People en masse are growing fearful of thier Government/s because of incremental and overt usurpsion of Constitutional matters as well as blatant abuses and callous disregard at teh hands of what are termmed "paramilitary forces" when we see them on the news in otehr countries but are called FEMA, NSA, DHS, and assorted other brancehs of "law" enforcement when they appear in the US.
Again, incrementalism mixed with double speak and linguistic manipulation.
"Providing for the general welfare" would be better expressed by securing our US/Mexican border than invading a resort town beach head. The "exercise" is a blatant waste of effort and borrowed funds in the eyes of critical thinking Americans.
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Disavowed spook

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2009, 12:46:07 pm »

Another example of legalese usurping National Sovreignty.
When prosecuting would require releasing classified material the Constitutional stalemate lets guilty walk?


http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:washington_ti859:5d9f0d231f241e89889f07e6d1d6017c/Charges-dropped-against-ex-AIPAC-staffers;_ylt=AgZNoI3f7_Ped75FcpW9flQ7vJZ4
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Elias Alias

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2009, 02:38:23 pm »

Well, I do not think that Oathkeepers, as a group of patriots, are off-course in discussing some of the topics which have surfaced on this thread thus far. We have the oath itself, which alludes to the Constitution, which created the Federal government, which has acted in recent decades in ways which give good cause to all here to review the activities of the Federal government.

But before I toss my two-cents' worth into the fray here, I'd like to note for all readers that Oathkeepers is steadfastly seeking to remain aloof from all political aspects, for the purpose of keeping Oathkeepers as purely non-partisan as best we can. Americans today do have many valid questions regarding the exercise of authority by the Federal government. Law enforcement personnel and military personnel and the veteran community all have a stake in what is happening to/with our country today. So when we speak here of various related topics, such as certain ways in which we see the Federal government violating its own founding document's legal charter, we want to keep (or try to keep, yes?) our focus on the non-partisan stance of Oathkeepers. I hope all agree with me on that.

But, that said, let's now look at the reality of foreign troops being trained on our soil, and how that may be seen to threaten U.S. national sovereignty.

We know that our own damned government is involved in "working groups" cooperating with working groups from matching agencies in the Mexican and Canadian government. These working groups are found in the State Department, the White House, the Pentagon, the Department of Justice, the Department of Transportation, the Department of Energy, etc., etc. The working groups are laid out in full detail in Jerome Corsi's wonderful book entitled The Late Great USA. But some of the activity of these working groups comes to the surface at the government's own website, here:  http://www.spp.gov/

From that page - (italics mine)

Quote
This trilateral initiative is premised on our security and our economic prosperity being mutually reinforcing. The SPP recognizes that our three great nations are bound by a shared belief in freedom, economic opportunity, and strong democratic institutions.


Reading between the lines on that front page at the Security and Prosperity Partnership website, which is a Federal (dot gov) website, we may feel a chill as we recognize the statist twist of perverted notions of "partnership" which are worded in such lofty and blameless language so as to conceal the agenda of the creation of a North American Union (NAU). Many of you here already know about the SPP, but in case a few readers here have not fully thought about it, allow me please to recall a couple of points of interest:

1) The NAU is being constructed in the same way the European Union was created - through trade deals (think: NAFTA and CAFTA etc.)

2) If and when a NAU is established, it will of need possess a higher authority than any government of the involved three nations, Canada, Mexico, and the United States. That means there will be a higher authority than our Supreme Court, and there will be a higher authority than our Congress, and there will be a higher authority than our Department of Justice, etc., but it also means that there will be a higher authority than our U.S. Constitution. All of our Bill of Rights would then be subject to interpretation by the governing body of the NAU. Any form of a North American Union will be a direct threat to the Constitution we've sworn to support and defend, and said North American Union would directly usurp American sovereignty, enfolding we and our legal system into a larger body of higher, concentrated, authority.

I mention the above subject for your consideration as Oathkeepers because of the obvious threat to our sovereignty this SPP represents to all Americans;  but I also mention it here because of the topic which has just come up on this thread, the topic of foreign troops exercising on U.S. soil. Here is something I recently found at FEMA's website, something called "NLE09"  -

http://www.fema.gov/media/fact_sheets/nle09.shtm

From that article I would like to share a couple of sections for your consideration.

quoting from FEMA's article:

"NLE 09 is a White House directed, Congressionally- mandated exercise that includes the participation of all appropriate federal department and agency senior officials, their deputies, staff and key operational elements.  In addition, broad regional participation of state, tribal, local, and private sector is anticipated.  This year the United States welcomes the participation of Australia, Canada, Mexico and the United Kingdom in NLE 09."


and:

"NLE 09 will be an operations-based exercise to include: activities taking place at command posts, emergency operation centers, intelligence centers and potential field locations to include federal headquarters facilities in the Washington D.C. area, and in federal, regional, state, tribal, local and private sector facilities in FEMA Region VI, which includes the states of Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Texas."

and:

"Through a comprehensive evaluation process, the exercise will assess prevention and protection capabilities both nationally and regionally. Although NLE 09 is still in the planning stages, the exercise is currently designed to validate the following capabilities:

    *
      Intelligence/Information Sharing and Dissemination
    *
      Counter-Terrorism Investigation and Law Enforcement
    *
      Air, Border and Maritime Security
    *
      Critical Infrastructure Protection
    *
      Public and Private Sector Alert/Notification and Security Advisories
    *
      International Coordination

"Exercises such as NLE 09 are an important component of national preparedness, helping to build an integrated federal, state, tribal, local and private sector capability to prevent terrorist attacks, and rapidly and effectively respond to, and recover from, any terrorist attack or major disaster that occurs.

"The full-scale exercise offers agencies and jurisdictions a way to test their plans and skills in a real-time, realistic environment and to gain the in-depth knowledge that only experience can provide. Participants will exercise prevention and information sharing functions that are critical to preventing terrorist attacks. Lessons learned from the exercise will provide valuable insights to guide future planning for securing the nation against terrorist attacks, disasters, and other emergencies.

"For more information about NLE 09, contact the FEMA News Desk: 202-646-4600."


(end quoted passages from FEMA website)
~

So. That NLE09 is coming right up, in July, and it will deal with "intervention" of terrorism. The American public is most likely to believe that this is a very necessary exercise, for many reasons. But you and I must look at this from a more responsible vantage point. We must acknowledge that our government has included foreign troops in this "intervention" operation/exercise. The reason we must look at this from a more accurate perspective has to do with Janet Napolitano's recent debacle regarding "right-wing extremism". As I hope all here know, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has issued to all law enforcement agencies around the nation a very alarming dissertation on how law enforcement personnel might recognize "threats to law enforcement". Included among the listed villains are Ron Paul supporters, anyone believing that the 2nd Amendment is under attack by government, anyone who believes that there is a North American Union, anyone who disagrees that the U.S. government should allow a private corporation issue this nation's money supply (the Federal Reserve), and, among numerous other social despots, our own troops returning home from service in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Given DHS' view of mainstream America and its veteran community, how should I now think of the National Level Exercise 09 to be conducted by FEMA?

Such, I confess, is exactly why it was necessary for Stewart to create Oathkeepers.

Coimments?

Salute!
Elias
Notes:
Napolitano's pitiful comments on the document - http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1239817562001.shtm
the document, pdf - http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
for the document in html form -

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:NoVMKyGOQdcJ:www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf+%22Rightwing+Extremism:+Current+Economic+and+Political+Climate+Fueling+Resurgence+in+Radicalization+and+Recruitment,%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
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Bernie

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2009, 04:08:01 pm »


http://www.fema.gov/media/fact_sheets/nle09.shtm

From that article I would like to share a couple of sections for your consideration.

quoting from FEMA's article:

"NLE 09 is a White House directed, Congressionally- mandated exercise that includes the participation of all appropriate federal department and agency senior officials, their deputies, staff and key operational elements.  In addition, broad regional participation of state, tribal, local, and private sector is anticipated.  This year the United States welcomes the participation of Australia, Canada, Mexico and the United Kingdom in NLE 09."


Yes I know.  I am taking vacation the end of July.  I am not sure what I will be doing.

This is so why the Oath Keepers need their own forum.  We have a lot to talk about and we can't contain it  all in the one forum subject that we are alloted.

I have said this before.  There are 35 subjects  at this forum and we are but one of them.  I try to keep it to the Oath Keeper mission of getting organized.  Informing and education and current events will come when we have a home of our own.

We are getting a home of our own?
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da gooch

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2009, 09:20:27 pm »

Yes I know.  I am taking vacation the end of July.  I am not sure what I will be doing.

This is so why the Oath Keepers need their own forum.  We have a lot to talk about and we can't contain it  all in the one forum subject that we are alloted.

I have said this before.  There are 35 subjects  at this forum and we are but one of them.  I try to keep it to the Oath Keeper mission of getting organized.  Informing and education and current events will come when we have a home of our own.

We are getting a home of our own?
extra emphasis mine

I don't have the answer to that one Bernie.
I do know that we are still backed up on the testimonials and comments on the blog site.
There is a tee shirt thing getting organized and several public events as well as promotional materials being considered.

This was set up for us as a temporary place to chat and we have since been graciously been invited to enjoin the other folks here at the Mental Militia Forum.

I too hope that we will get our own space.
Time will tell.
[I am not a very patient waiter either.]

What was it the second vulture said ?*     




* "Patience Hell !  You can starve if you want to .... I'm gonna go kill something .... "
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freewoman

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2009, 05:27:17 pm »

Quote
This is so why the Oath Keepers need their own forum.  We have a lot to talk about and we can't contain it  all in the one forum subject that we are alloted.

I have said this before.  There are 35 subjects  at this forum and we are but one of them.  I try to keep it to the Oath Keeper mission of getting organized.  Informing and education and current events will come when we have a home of our own.

We are getting a home of our own?
 

I am a Friend of the Oath-Keepers, though I have never been in the military, or in law enforcement.  I believe in what Stewart is doing with the website, and fully support those of you who are working to awaken others.  This effort could well save all of our bacon, and I for one appreciate that fact.  And I've told several oath-takers about the site.

I have been a member of this forum since 2005, back when it was the Claire Files.  In almost 4 years, I have learned and grown tremendously. 

Bernie, and others who may share his sentiments as quoted above:  You are not restricted to only one part of this forum.  Nor are you restricted to only one thread on this part of the forum.  There truly is a lot to talk about.  But many of us here have been talking about this for years.  And a good number have been putting that talk into action.  Some of that action is discussed here, in various sections of the forum.

There is absolutely no reason why Oath-Keepers must restrict themselves to only the Oath-Keepers section of the forum.  Try Activism, for example.  You'll find folks there who are openly fighting for freedom, and some very good ideas on how to do just that.  And more suggestions are welcome.

Some of the rest of us have other roles.  For those of you who aren't familiar with Claire Wolfe's writings, she has defined three basic types of freedom workers:  Agitators, Ghosts, and Moles.  Agitators are the open activists; Ghosts are the folks who work toward disappearing from the government's view; and Moles are those who work behind the scenes.  That's why we have those three sections on the forum—liberty fighters come in several different flavors.  And we all benefit from each other's strengths.

Yes, Oath-Keepers is getting organized.  And there may come a time when y'all have your own forum.  But we have plenty of information, education, and current events right here, right now.  On a variety of different subjects. 

So dive into our little pool.  I can't speak for all the regulars, but I for one am very glad the Oath Keepers have come on board.  There's a lot we can do together;  the situation is getting too intense to segregate ourselves now. 





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Patriot 5

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2009, 05:59:39 am »

Hello to all, and my thanks to Elias.

I'm new to the forum and this my first post but have been following this Obama situation for a long time now as I studied a considerable amount of psychology and began to see many questionable things about him from shortly after he began running.
 
I'm very proud to know there individuals like all of you around in our Nation and even though I haven't been a Marine or in any branch of the service due to a brain injury received back in 1965 I more than willing to fight to preserve this Great Nation and Republic of Ours against all those, foreign or domestic that would attempt to tear her apart as unfortunately is now happening under Obama and his corrupt administration!  Thaey all must go.
 
What is very concerning to me, and I'm sure many others, is what has just been posted by DHS, copy enclosed below, as to whom falls into all the various catagories that they consider to be a terrorist and the list is all encompassing as you will note!
 
Now to go a bit deeper about this issue is the fact that if they decide to attempt to enforce any of this, as I firmly believe the USrper Obama and his administration will do as they are arrogant enough to undertake this as part of his Socialization/New World Order & Radical Muslim Brotherhood plans!  Just how many of those in law enforcement, police, sheriff, DHS, and other government goons are we the Patriotic Citizens going to have to be fighting to prevent their attempted control and Terrorization of us because we don't go along with their narrow minded corrupt and UnConstitutional thinking or what they have been told to think !??  Having studied a considerable amount of psycholoby and knowing that many in LE are on a power trip I'm very concerned that they may not even consider whether or not these types of orders are Constitutional or not and may cause a considerable amount of damage to various citizens and then have the gall to say they are just following orders as though we are supposed to accept that.  I've already experienced this exact senerio, but not about guns or terrorism persey.  The mind set and mentality of some of these individuals is lacking in reasoning ability it seems.
 
 
This is some very serious information here and it's been confirmed as being true by an intellegence source!  At least he said he had the same memo on his desk too and it Pissed him off!
 
I'm very interested to know what you think about this kind of thing happening in our country and how we can combat or neturalize it?
To me this is nothing more than a projection of just exactly what BO's administration is guilty of, TERRORISM!  I'll state my analysis of BO again, He is a Radical Muslim Terrorist Sleeper bent on destroying the U.S.A. from within, which just happens to be the Radical Muslims Creede!  Isn't that conincidental!!  BO is a USurper POTUS as he is not a NBC and can't be as his father was a Britixh subject when BO was born.
 
Plus we have 35+ Muslim Terrorist Training Camps right here on U.S.A. Soil too and one isn't too far from where I live although not in my local!!
 
Men, these are some very trying times were involved in and we all need to pull together to get through it and keep this Nation and Our Constitution Alive and well!  
God Bless us all and Our Nation and Honor!
 
I'd be proud to stand with you if only on the far Right!

Patriot 5

You'll have to do a cut and Paste as article is too long.
> > > >

DEFENDOURFREEDOMS.NET published a new entry entitled "DHS Domestic Extremism" on 5/3/2009 10:46:51 AM, written by Defend Our Freedoms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DHS Domestic Extremism

I'm having more trouble trying to think of anyone that doesn't fit into at least one of these definitions.


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Bernie

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2009, 07:01:09 am »

Hello to all, and my thanks to Elias.

I'd be proud to stand with you if only on the far Right!

Patriot 5

Hey I am on the far left, does that mean we have come full circle.  I am a financial conservative bleeding heart liberal that thinks churches need to step up to the plate and do the things they used to do and let government do what they used to do.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2009, 07:24:36 am »

Just a bit of a heads up, and also some food for thought for the new folks posting...

Plans for the Oathkeepers organization were well underway BEFORE the election.  A lot of folks around here see very little difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.  They are both full of thieves bent on maintaining their own power and enriching themselves and their buddies.  They belong to the same secretive elite organizations.  They both support looting the working person through income taxes and the Federal Reserve system.  The Democrats erode amendments 1, 2, 6, and 9.  Then the Republicans trample 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9.  And when someone like Ron Paul mentions number 10, both sides have a good belly laugh.

Left and Right are an illusion.  There is only Top and Bottom.  The top is the super-wealthy elite and their government puppets, and the bottom is the rest of us.  Returning to the constitution is NOT a return to the Right - it's a return to the BOTTOM - We The People.

Take a look around at the other parts of the forums.  You will find lots of outside-the-left-right-box thinking.  Some of it may seem a bit shocking or radical at first.  And be warned that if you post "conservative" rants about Democrats here, you are likely to be challenged - sometimes fiercely - by folks who distrust the Republicans just as much.  But don't assume it's because they are "liberal."  Modern liberalism is above all a Statist and Collectivist ideology - and that can get folks around here pretty riled up.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

Patriot 5

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2009, 03:50:14 pm »

Hello to all, and my thanks to Elias.

I'd be proud to stand with you if only on the far Right!

Patriot 5

Hey I am on the far left, does that mean we have come full circle.  I am a financial conservative bleeding heart liberal that thinks churches need to step up to the plate and do the things they used to do and let government do what they used to do.


Maybe, as long as we both want to ensure this Nations Constitutional Values are re-established once again and all our Rights and Freedoms regained!
I'd like to think that most everybody on the form, hopefully all, are all working toward the same goal of regaining what we are now loosing.

I'd also like to mention the DHS article is highly inflamatory in and of itself and seems to have come from the current administration.

I's a good thing that this forum can and does bring both sides together for an open minded discussion of Our Nations state of well being.
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Patriot 5

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Re: Welcome To The Oath-Keepers Temporary Forum at TMM
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2009, 05:17:20 pm »

Just a bit of a heads up, and also some food for thought for the new folks posting...

Plans for the Oathkeepers organization were well underway BEFORE the election.  A lot of folks around here see very little difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.  They are both full of thieves bent on maintaining their own power and enriching themselves and their buddies.  They belong to the same secretive elite organizations.  They both support looting the working person through income taxes and the Federal Reserve system.  The Democrats erode amendments 1, 2, 6, and 9.  Then the Republicans trample 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9.  And when someone like Ron Paul mentions number 10, both sides have a good belly laugh.

Left and Right are an illusion.  There is only Top and Bottom.  The top is the super-wealthy elite and their government puppets, and the bottom is the rest of us.  Returning to the constitution is NOT a return to the Right - it's a return to the BOTTOM - We The People.

Take a look around at the other parts of the forums.  You will find lots of outside-the-left-right-box thinking.  Some of it may seem a bit shocking or radical at first.  And be warned that if you post "conservative" rants about Democrats here, you are likely to be challenged - sometimes fiercely - by folks who distrust the Republicans just as much.  But don't assume it's because they are "liberal."  Modern liberalism is above all a Statist and Collectivist ideology - and that can get folks around here pretty riled up.



Hi Klapton,
Yes, I'll have to agree that for the most part we are all cut from the same material but it seems as though the difference, at least for the majority, but not likely on this forum, lies in the perspective of too many not to attempt to try and descern where a person/canidate might be headed such as BO which is unfortunae and indeed which is why we are now faced with all these problems we are embroiled in although the media had a lot to do with it too.

I would take a bit of exception with your example as I'd rather consider, 'We The People' as being on top to control those under us as our represenatives and indeed even the president is supposed to be except in times of National defense.  God help us on that part now.

I most certainly agree with the ideals of the forum to make the U.S. Constitution the basis of our actions and beliefs and thwart any attempt to deprive us of out Rights as is in the works as we speak by the USurper and other factions that got him in office.  It seems we need to form a plan action to correct what has been done. 
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