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Author Topic: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey  (Read 45380 times)

Elias Alias

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Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« on: March 25, 2009, 03:38:02 pm »

From the Oath-Keepers website, I'll paste in here the ten orders all Oath-Keepers are being asked to not obey. These are considered to be illegal orders and as such are in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and are introspective aspects of the Constitution, carried in its entire body in combination with the Bill of Rights:

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

~

Elias here. Just think about it - if all U.S. military personnel and all law-enforcement personnel, and all government employees were to swear an oath to honor those ten forbidden aggressions against the American people, we'd have a lot less to fear in America right now.  The above list gives us a deeper look at what is contained and implied within the Military/LEO oaths to support and defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Comments are welcome.

Salute!
Elias
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CorbinKale

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 06:08:54 pm »

Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to recieve.

As a 23 year vet from the US Army Infantry, I can tell you that the soldiers don't get ANY training on the Constitution, yet we all swear to support and defend it! This has to change.
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Elias Alias

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 08:13:24 pm »

Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to recieve.

As a 23 year vet from the US Army Infantry, I can tell you that the soldiers don't get ANY training on the Constitution, yet we all swear to support and defend it! This has to change.

Amen, Bro!

You make a great point about educating uniformed forces before they receive illegal/unconstitutional orders. I think your idea has wings to fly into peripheral areas of operation in coming times - such as doing educational outreach activities to enhance public school  involvement in teaching the Constitution and Bill of Rights to our youth prior to their joining the military or law enforcement; and then contacting departments of local law enforcement as citizens, requesting that our local enforcement offices also teach the Constitution. Maybe even some general-public advertising ventures in newspapers, etc. And perhaps we could inspire some Senators and Representatives to make sure that our troops get Constitutional instructions during Boot Camp or training centers or induction centers. You're right - when I was in the military we were not taught a thing about the very document we swore to defend. Interesting, that. Let's think about ways to improve that oversight, eh? :)

Salute!
Elias
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CorbinKale

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 10:13:28 pm »

The best I could manage in the Army was to train my squad and platoon on the Oath during Sergeant's Time training. I once tried to give a class on the Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, at a higher echelon, but was denied as it was "too controversial".

I have sent letters to most TV interviewers, requesting that they ask the next Colonel or General they interview a simple question. "What will you do if you are ordered to confiscate civilian owned firearms?" You can't tell me that isn't newsworthy, but no one will touch it. The fact that they won't ask the question that is on everyone's mind is a big red flag, to me, and makes the task of educating the line troops that much more urgent!
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Elias Alias

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 04:17:16 am »

The best I could manage in the Army was to train my squad and platoon on the Oath during Sergeant's Time training. I once tried to give a class on the Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, at a higher echelon, but was denied as it was "too controversial".

That's about it in a nutshell - "too controversial". That's pretty sad, isn't it? But it shows how far down that slippery slope our country has drifted over the years. I once noted that the American people are in a prison of their own making, behind bars consisting of "convenience, creature comforts, and constitutional concessions".  I salute you for attempting to spread the word about freedom and its relation to the Constitution and BoR while in service.

Quote
I have sent letters to most TV interviewers, requesting that they ask the next Colonel or General they interview a simple question. "What will you do if you are ordered to confiscate civilian owned firearms?" You can't tell me that isn't newsworthy, but no one will touch it. The fact that they won't ask the question that is on everyone's mind is a big red flag, to me, and makes the task of educating the line troops that much more urgent!

You're so right. TV interviewers are limited by corporate mandates coming from higher up than the cutting-room floor, so even if one chose to follow up on your suggestion, his efforts would likely be torpedoed from higher offices.  For an aware individual like yourself, what the media does *not say says more than what they *do say, right? :)

Thanks for signing on as an Oath-Keeper, and for registering here to share your experience. Welcome aboard!

Salute!
Elias
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da gooch

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Re: Orders We Will Not Obey - Long Form
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 01:07:40 pm »

From the OathKeepers blogspot

Oath Keepers: Orders We Will Not Obey {The Long Form}
"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army" - Gen. George Washington, to his troops before the battle of Long Island

Such a time is near at hand again. The fate of unborn millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this Army - and this Marine Corps, This Air Force, This Navy and the National Guard units of these sovereign states.

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, peace officers, and veterans who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic … and meant it.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and that oath will be kept. We won’t “just follow orders."

Below is our declaration of orders we will NOT obey because we will consider them unconstitutional (and thus unlawful) and immoral violations of the natural rights of the people. Such orders would be acts of war against the American people by their own government, and thus acts of treason. We will not make war against our own people. We will not commit treason. We will defend the Republic.

Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey

Recognizing that we each swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and affirming that we are guardians of the Republic, of the principles in our Declaration of Independence, and of the rights of our people, we affirm and declare the following:

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.

Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.

In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny. Accordingly, we oppose any and all further infringements on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In particular we oppose a renewal of the misnamed “assault-weapons” ban or the enactment of H.R. 45 (which would register and track gun owners like convicted pedophiles).

2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the use of warrantless searches known as “writs of assistance” and the first fiery embers of American resistance were born in opposition to those infamous writs. The Founders considered all warrantless searches to be unreasonable and egregious. It was to prevent a repeat of such violations of the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects that the Fourth Amendment was written.

We expect that warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.

3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the denial of the right to jury trial, the use of admiralty courts (military tribunals) instead, and the application of the laws of war to the colonists. After that experience, and being well aware of the infamous Star Chamber in English history, the Founders ensured that the international laws of war would apply only to foreign enemies, not to the American people. Thus, the Article III Treason Clause establishes the only constitutional form of trial for an American, not serving in the military, who is accused of making war on his own nation. Such a trial for treason must be before a civilian jury, not a tribunal.

The international laws of war do not trump our Bill of Rights. We reject as illegitimate any such claimed power, as did the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1865). Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the attempt “to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power” by disbanding the Massachusetts legislature and appointing General Gage as “military governor.” The attempt to disarm the people of Massachusetts during that martial law sparked our Revolution. Accordingly, the power to impose martial law – the absolute rule over the people by a military officer with his will alone being law – is nowhere enumerated in our Constitution.

Further, it is the militia of a state and of the several states that the Constitution contemplates being used in any context, during any emergency within a state, not the standing army.

The imposition of martial law by the national government over a state and its people, treating them as an occupied enemy nation, is an act of war. Such an attempted suspension of the Constitution and Bill of Rights voids the compact with the states and with the people.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

In response to the obscene growth of federal power and to the absurdly totalitarian claimed powers of the Executive, upwards of 20 states are considering, have considered, or have passed courageous resolutions affirming states rights and sovereignty.

Those resolutions follow in the honored and revered footsteps of Jefferson and Madison in their Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, and likewise seek to enforce the Constitution by affirming the very same principles of our Declaration, Constitution, and Bill of Rights that we Oath Keepers recognize and affirm.

Chief among those principles is that ours is a dual sovereignty system, with the people of each state retaining all powers not granted to the national government they created, and thus the people of each state reserved to themselves the right to judge when the national government they created has voided the compact between the states by asserting powers never granted.

Upon the declaration by a state that such a breach has occurred, we will not obey orders to force that state to submit to the national government.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the blockade of Boston, and the occupying of that city by the British military, under martial law. Once hostilities began, the people of Boston were tricked into turning in their arms in exchange for safe passage, but were then forbidden to leave. That confinement of the residents of an entire city was an act of war.

Such tactics were repeated by the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, and by the Imperial Japanese in Nanking, turning entire cities into death camps. Any such order to disarm and confine the people of an American city will be an act of war and thus an act of treason.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

Mass, forced internment into concentration camps was a hallmark of every fascist and communist dictatorship in the 20th Century. Such internment was unfortunately even used against American citizens of Japanese descent during World War II. Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boars, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, to the Cossacks, and to the Chechens, for example.

Such a vile order to forcibly intern Americans without charges or trial would be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason, regardless of the pretext used. We will not commit treason, nor will we facilitate or support it."NOT on Our Watch!"

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.

During the American Revolution, the British government enlisted the aid of Hessian mercenaries in an attempt to subjugate the rebellious American people. Throughout history, repressive regimes have enlisted the aid of foreign troops and mercenaries who have no bonds with the people.

Accordingly, as the militia of the several states are the only military force contemplated by the Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, for domestic keeping of the peace, and as the use of even our own standing army for such purposes is without such constitutional support, the use of foreign troops and mercenaries against the people is wildly unconstitutional, egregious, and an act of war.

We will oppose such troops as enemies of the people and we will treat all who request, invite, and aid those foreign troops as the traitors they are.

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the seizure and forfeiture of American ships, goods, and supplies, along with the seizure of American timber for the Royal Navy, all in violation of the people’s natural right to their property and to the fruits of their labor. The final spark of the Revolution was the attempt by the government to seize powder and cannon stores at Concord.

Deprivation of food has long been a weapon of war and oppression, with millions intentionally starved to death by fascist and communist governments in the 20th Century alone.

Accordingly, we will not obey or facilitate orders to confiscate food and other essential supplies from the people, and we will consider all those who issue or carry out such orders to be the enemies of the people.

10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

There would have been no American Revolution without fiery speakers and writers such as James Otis, Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine, and Sam Adams “setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”

Patrick Henry: "Give me Liberty, or Give me DEATH!"

Tyrants know that the pen of a man such as Thomas Paine can cause them more damage than entire armies, and thus they always seek to suppress the natural rights of speech, association, and assembly. Without freedom of speech, the people will have no recourse but to arms. Without freedom of speech and conscience, there is no freedom.

Therefore, we will not obey or support any orders to suppress or violate the right of the people to speak, associate, worship, assemble, communicate, or petition government for the redress of grievances.

— And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually affirm our oath and pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. Oath Keepers

The above list is not exhaustive but we do consider them to be clear tripwires – they form our “line in the sand,” and if we receive such orders, we will not obey them. Further, we will know that the time for another American Revolution is nigh. If such a revolution comes, at that time, not only will we NOT fire upon our fellow Americans who righteously resist such egregious violations of their God given rights, we will join them in fighting against those who dare attempt to enslave them.

NOTE: please also read our Principles of Our Republic We Are Sworn to Defend

More About Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers is a non partisan association of currently serving military, veterans, and peace officers who will fulfill our oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and not to any political party. In the long-standing tradition of the U.S. military, we are apolitical. We don’t care if unlawful orders come from a Democrat or a Republican, or if the violation is bi-partisan. We will not obey unconstitutional (and thus unlawful) and immoral orders, such as orders to disarm the American people or to place them under martial law. We won’t “just follow orders." Our motto: “Not on Our Watch!” or to put it even more succinctly, in the words of , General Anthony McAuliffe, "NUTS!".

There is at this time a debate within the ranks of the military regarding their oath. Some mistakenly believe they must follow any order the President issues. But many others do understand that their loyalty is to the Constitution and to the people, and understand what that means.

The mission of Oath Keepers is to vastly increase their numbers.

We are in a battle for the hearts and minds of our own troops.
Help us win it.
www.oath-keepers.blogspot.com
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jamiehenning

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 01:29:00 am »

Quote
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to receive.

I'm sure I sound like an uninformed idiot, so please help me fix that.  What kind of orders did military personnel receive during Katrina that would be considered unconstitutional.  Are we talking martial law?

--Jamie
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Elias Alias

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2009, 01:57:08 am »

Quote
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to receive.

I'm sure I sound like an uninformed idiot, so please help me fix that.  What kind of orders did military personnel receive during Katrina that would be considered unconstitutional.  Are we talking martial law?

--Jamie

Heh! Jamie, if you were "uninformed", you would not have found your way here. :)

I think the problem most generally seen by folks here, pertaining to Katrina, is the problem of troops collecting, door to door, the citizens' guns. Taking guns from the American citizen should be entirely un-constitutional. And it was stressful because New Orleans was a traumatized area where good people needed most direly to have those guns to protect themselves and their properties.

A freeholder in a free country would have full control of his property, and would have the means to defend/protect that property, i.e., his guns.

Salute!
Elias
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 09:31:11 am »

Quote
Educating our uniformed forces BEFORE they receive unconstitutional orders is paramount. We saw during Katrina that they will obey unconstitutional orders if they are sprung on them during the chaos of an emergency. This way, they will have time to make an informed choice and have advanced warning about the unconstitutional orders they are likely to receive.

I'm sure I sound like an uninformed idiot, so please help me fix that.  What kind of orders did military personnel receive during Katrina that would be considered unconstitutional.  Are we talking martial law?

--Jamie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC7z79-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhvV2uz10eA&feature=related
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jamiehenning

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2009, 11:31:33 am »

I didn't realize that had occurred!  I'm outraged.  Had I been in those affected areas, I would have expected to be able to protect myself and my property!

--Jamie
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CorbinKale

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2009, 11:36:05 am »

I didn't realize that had occurred!  I'm outraged.  Had I been in those affected areas, I would have expected to be able to protect myself and my property!

--Jamie

Obviously, those police and military personnel had no idea what is written in the Constitution. If they did, they willing obeyed unlawful orders. The government maintains that it has the right to suspend the Constitution during an emergency. During an emergency, we need the Constitution more than ever!
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Wyomiles

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2009, 05:23:13 pm »

jamiehenning said...

"I didn't realize that had occurred! "

Keep reading jamie... this place has taught me so many things !
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Who...me?

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2009, 09:23:54 pm »

jamiehenning said...

"I didn't realize that had occurred! "

Keep reading jamie... this place has taught me so many things !

+1
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captkit

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2009, 04:47:51 am »

Never in my life did I think (that websites would exist) but knew that a time would come that OATH KEEPERS would exist!
I am truly sorry that America has the government it has and that we elected them.Sometimes again and again.
Or in fact elected them the first ime.
I will stand with my brothers and sisters who have worn the uniform or who are currently wearing it.
Oath Keeper vowes will be stated before my General Orders.
I am olny 65,got a black belt 3 yrs ago,but have beeen on shooting teams since 58'.
Volunteered in 61' for the Army. From the 3rd to the 9th grade I was in Military School. Little ROTC in various High Schools.
The rest you can look up or read in books.
I am proud to be an OATH Keeper.
Point or watching your 6, I'll be there for you.
kit
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UnknownSoldier

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Re: Orders Oath-Keepers Will Not Obey
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2009, 10:34:41 am »

ok I have no idea if this is the place to sign the "oath" or not or if i have joined the "oath keepers" but that is my intent I am a honorably discharged Vet and agree with everything here and the oath. when i was discharged there was never anything I signed or agreed to that said the oath I took to defend this constitution had or ever would expire.
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