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Author Topic: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!  (Read 19934 times)

freewoman

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The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« on: March 30, 2009, 05:42:21 am »

The pledge of allegiance has been brought up on another part of the forum, but I thought it best to start a thread on it here.  About 3-4 years ago, I was on the Backwoods Home forum a lot.  Someone there posted a link to an article on the history of the Pledge. I quit saying it from that point on.  I have instructed my daughter that she does not have to say it either; she generally chooses not to do so.

Here's a link to an article that sums up my decision on the Pledge:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo54.html

A wee bit of a teaser:

Quote
The US Supreme Court’s recent decision to review the constitutionality of the "under God" wording in the Pledge of Allegiance provides an occasion to educate Americans about the ideological purpose of the Pledge. A good place to start would be John Baer’s book, The Pledge of Allegiance: A Centennial History, 1892-1992 (Free State Press, 1992). In it one would learn that the author of the Pledge was one Francis Bellamy, a defrocked Baptist minister from Boston who identified himself as a Christian Socialist and who preached in his pulpit that "Jesus was a socialist."

Bellamy was the cousin of Edward Bellamy, author of the extremely popular 1888 socialist fantasy, Looking Backward. In this novel the main character, Julian West, falls asleep in 1887 and awakens in the year 2000 when the socialist "utopia" has been achieved: All industry is state owned, Soviet style; everyone is an employee of the state who is conscripted at age 21 and retires at age 45; and all workers earn the same income.

Francis Bellamy said that one purpose of the Pledge of Allegiance was to help accomplish his lifelong goal of making his cousin’s socialist fantasy a reality in America. He further stated that the "true reason for allegiance to the Flag" was to indoctrinate American school children in the false history of the American founding that was espoused first by Daniel Webster and, later, by Abraham Lincoln.

Lincoln falsely claimed that the states were never sovereign and that the union created the states, not the other way around. (But as Joe Sobran has remarked, the notion that the union is older than the states makes as much sense as the idea that a marriage can be older than either spouse. It is impossible for a union of two things to be older than either of the things it is a union of).

The truth is that in all of the American founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution, the states refer to themselves as "free and independent." The Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolutionary War was a treaty with the individual, free and independent states, not "the whole people" of the United States.


I choose to ally myself with the principles of freedom, which (IMO) is best elucidated through ZAP.  My allegiance is not with any flag, nor any governmental entity. 

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MamaLiberty

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009, 09:00:41 am »

Lots of interesting facts here. http://rexcurry.net/  Rex Curry has spent a lot of time, money and effort investigating and reporting on this bogus "pledge."
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freewoman

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 05:12:58 pm »

Ooh--that was the link I was searching for and couldn't find!  I searched for "Pledge of Allegiance", but the Rex Curry stuff didn't come up, and I had forgotten his name.  I had it bookmarked on an old computer that crashed and couldn't recall it.  Thanks, ML, for posting this!
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MamaLiberty

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 05:17:01 pm »

You are welcome... and they say there is no good to come out of a cluttered mind. LOL 
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RagnarDanneskjold

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 11:07:37 pm »

Ha Ha ML. You sure beat me to it. Work Work Work Work. Well, I guess I can't complain that I have 2 jobs...
That was the site I would have pointed to, but I would have had to waltz on over to the LRT Yahoo forum to find it. There certainly is something to be said for being a one trick pony. He has researched the be-geezus out of the pledge. He's got some great pictures of the original salute. And it wasn't hand over heart...
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MamaLiberty

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2009, 07:02:50 am »

Yes, Rex is so obsessed with this thing that I finally gave up trying to talk to him. I was on his email list for a long time, but it got old, since he pretty much says the same things each time. I just keep the reference links available in case someone needs them. Don't actually see much reference to the "pledge" anymore.
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velojym

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2009, 08:40:10 am »

Ha Ha ML. You sure beat me to it. Work Work Work Work. Well, I guess I can't complain that I have 2 jobs...
That was the site I would have pointed to, but I would have had to waltz on over to the LRT Yahoo forum to find it. There certainly is something to be said for being a one trick pony. He has researched the be-geezus out of the pledge. He's got some great pictures of the original salute. And it wasn't hand over heart...

Yeah, they had to change it during the '40s to avoid too much similarity to the Nazi salute. They won't admit that Hitler got many of his ideas from
Bellamy, though, and probably the salute as well.
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ff42

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2009, 05:14:15 pm »

I pledge my allegiance to the concept of freedom and justice for all
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peaceful_porc

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 02:23:41 pm »

The Pledge of Allegiance is obedience training. Pure and simple.
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dogsledder54

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2009, 02:54:32 pm »

I don't respect
1) the US government - if you read and believe the Declaration of Independence, the US government is as oppressive as was King George III and the parliamentfunkadelic
2) the US flag- and I don't pledge allegience to it either
3) government agents and workers- professional thieves, kidnappers, assassins, pickpockets, and thugs
4) Politicians and lawyers- mental whores
5) Courts and judges- tools of the oppressors
6) The "law" and law enforcement agents- see above
7) Bankers- moneychangers at best, pure Evil at worst
8 ) Most state governments- smaller scale models of Big Brother
9) Local political "subdivisions"- created mostly to pick off of our carcasses what is left by the feds and state governments
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macman2k

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 03:05:13 pm »

Below is a letter I sent to the pastor of my Church in regard to the Pledge....  note that this letter makes much more use of scripture and religious reasons than is necessary, but was written with the Pastor / Sunday School teacher in mind as the audience.

   Two weeks ago on "scout Sunday" our church marched the flag of the  
United States through our place of worship and proceeded to make an  
unqualified oath to a flag and the government it represents.  
According to my understanding of God's word, these acts are idol  
worship, represent an unnecessary pledge, and give undo recognition  
and legitimacy to government.

   I love the ideals our country was founded upon as much as the next  
American and would gladly fight and die to secure liberty for my  
children.  However, one must separate the ideal of liberty and justice  
for all, which I am sure we all share, from the literal meaning of the  
pledge we are making to what has become a tyrannical,fascist/socialist  
government that has no respect for the rule of law nor does it submit  
to God.  In effect, the pledge of allegiance runs counter to the  
ideals of liberty.

   Even if our government was brought back into line with the  
Constitution of the United States and those in office were free from  
all corruption and possessed uncommon wisdom and integrity, I still  
believe that what our church did two Sundays ago is an offense to  
God.  It is an offense because one cannot possibly keep such a pledge  
and because it glorifies a system designed to commit anonymous  
violence against our neighbors (in the form of taxation and regulation  
at gun point).  Furthermore, it occurred in God's house where we are  
called to pledge allegiance to the Kingdom  of God.  One cannot pledge  
unconditional allegiance to both God and government because one day  
you will be forced to break one of the pledges.

   Below I have provided support for my position with scripture and some  
history.  I encourage each of you to search your heart, seek God, and  
ask him to reveal His truth in this matter.  If you have scriptural  
justification for what was done two Sunday's ago I would be very  
interested in seeing it.

   I know you are both men whom desire to honor God and to serve him.  
Please understand that I am approaching you as a brother in Christ in  
an effort to pursue holiness.  I make every attempt not to judge  
people, but we must not be tolerant of sinful ideology.  I fully  
understand that most individuals have adopted tradition without giving  
it much thought, it is for this reason that I do not judge them.  Now  
that you are aware, I will let God will be your judge and you may go  
your own way without judgement from me.

   Below is an article I wrote to my daughter's Christian (Methodist) pre-
school which I discovered was teaching my daughter the pledge.  Next  
year she will be attending your preschool, I hope that you will  
consider carefully what I am saying.

The Bible vs The Pledge of Allegiance
God, through the apostle James, clearly states that Christians must  
not swear by an oath: “But above all things, my brethren, swear not…
but let your yes be your yes; and your no, no; lest you fall into  
condemnation” (James. 5:12).

Christ also said, in Matthew 5:34-37, “I say to you, do not swear at  
all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for  
it is His footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great  
King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one  
hair white or black. But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’  
For whatever is more than these is from the evil one”.

A thesaurus defines a pledge as “a promise, vow, swear” so it should  
be clear that as Christians we are commanded not to make pledges, not  
because making the pledge is a sin, but because we inevitably must  
break our pledges and therefore sin.  God knows that pledges are a  
powerful tool of the enemy used to enslave people with their own  
words.   The pledge of Allegiance to the United States of America is a  
prime example of an oath that no Christian should make.

Most people are not aware of the history behind the pledge of  
allegiance, even Sarah Palin thought “it was good enough for the  
founding fathers”.   The fact of the matter is that Thomas Jefferson  
and George Washington would abhor all such pledges.  In fact, the  
American revolution in which we temporarily won our freedoms would be  
an outright violation of any “oath to your government” by those who  
fought it.

So where did the pledge of allegiance come from?  It was originally  
written in the 1890’s (after the civil war) and is a child of the  
socialist progressive movement.  The author of the Pledge of  
Allegiance was Francis Bellamy, a Nationalists Socialist who spent his  
life promoting the dream of state controlled industry, education, and  
“economic equality” (communism).  The Pledge of Allegiance was a  
critical part of his plan to move the United States away from the  
ideals of freedom and liberty and toward a centralized all powerful  
government by replacing the spirit of independence with one of  
submission to the state.

A quick review of history will reveal that the German NAZI  
(Nationalist Socialist) salute was first used in America with the  
Pledge of Allegiance and wasn’t changed to the “hand over heart” until  
after World War II.

Further inspection of the pledge reveals that it is in direct  
contradiction with the Declaration of Independence when it claims that  
we are “one indivisible nation” and in contradiction to the  
Constitution of These United States and contract law.  Our nation was  
only made “indivisible” by threat of violence against states that wish  
to secede.   Compare the “one indivisible nation” with the  
introduction to the Declaration of Independence:

Quote
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people  
to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another  
and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal  
station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,  
a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should  
declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

If that were not enough, the pledge causes an individual to “lie” to  
themselves and others by asserting that “our republic” provides  
“liberty and justice for all”, which it most clearly does not.

The pledge of allegiance is not a pledge to the “ideals” of this  
country (in which case the government should pledge allegiance to the  
people (via the constitution) and their God-given rights) nor the  
ideals of liberty, justice, or freedom.  The pledge is an act of total  
and unconditional submission to something/someone other than God.  A  
pledge to an organization that commits great evils against mankind  
both at home and abroad.

Furthermore we learn from bible prophesy that the mark of the beast  
will be accompanied by an oath of loyalty to the anti-christ and his  
one world government.  The bible says that all who take this mark (and  
oath) are condemned.  While the Pledge of Allegiance may not be the  
mark of the beast, it is of the same nature.  Those who readily accept  
the Pledge of Allegiance are already pre-conditioned to accept an oath  
to the One World Government headed by the anti-christ.  And if for  
some reason the  Republic makes an Oath upon membership in the One  
World Government then you would be forced to break your oath to the  
Republic (thus why the Bible instructs us not to make oaths least we  
be trapped into sin).

Quote
Numbers 30
Moses said to the heads of the tribes of Israel: "This is what the  
LORD commands: 2 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath  
to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must  
do everything he said.
 3 "When a young woman still living in her father's house makes a vow  
to the LORD or obligates herself by a pledge 4 and her father hears  
about her vow or pledge but says nothing to her, then all her vows and  
every pledge by which she obligated herself will stand. 5 But if her  
father forbids her when he hears about it, none of her vows or the  
pledges by which she obligated herself will stand; the LORD will  
release her because her father has forbidden her.
 6 "If she marries after she makes a vow or after her lips utter a  
rash promise by which she obligates herself 7 and her husband hears  
about it but says nothing to her, then her vows or the pledges by  
which she obligated herself will stand. 8 But if her husband forbids  
her when he hears about it, he nullifies the vow that obligates her or  
the rash promise by which she obligates herself, and the LORD will  
release her.
 9 "Any vow or obligation taken by a widow or divorced woman will be  
binding on her.
 10 "If a woman living with her husband makes a vow or obligates  
herself by a pledge under oath 11 and her husband hears about it but  
says nothing to her and does not forbid her, then all her vows or the  
pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. 12 But if her  
husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows  
or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has  
nullified them, and the LORD will release her. 13 Her husband may  
confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny  
herself. 14 But if her husband says nothing to her about it from day  
to day, then he confirms all her vows or the pledges binding on her.  
He confirms them by saying nothing to her when he hears about them. 15  
If, however, he nullifies them some time after he hears about them,  
then he is responsible for her guilt."
 16 These are the regulations the LORD gave Moses concerning  
relationships between a man and his wife, and between a father and his  
young daughter still living in his house.

I love my daughter very much and wish that she be rewarded for obeying  
my instruction not to say the pledge.  I would hate for her to feel  
punished for doing the right thing.

I might suggest that your class (as a Christian preschool) simply  
abstain from saying the pledge as a whole for there is little for the  
children to gain by learning to make pledges they cannot comprehend  
nor take responsibility for and much for them to lose when they or  
their parents are held accountable for their pledge by God.
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Thoriz

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 08:04:21 pm »

After reading the article listed above I cringed.  I cringed again when the group at my town's TEA PARTY was led in saying it.
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macman2k

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2009, 12:03:38 pm »

After reading the article listed above I cringed.  I cringed again when the group at my town's TEA PARTY was led in saying it.

The sunday school teacher's response was, after some rationalization... "since my dad died, the flag means more to me than ever". 
The pastor never responded.

The sad thing is that just about every church has an american flag on display and gets all "nationalistic" around several holidays. 
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alfa1

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2009, 04:38:17 pm »

macman2k,

You have given us something profound to contemplate. We are instructed to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesars" and in Ephesians to be obedient to our masters, to do as we are instructed diligently and with a joyful spirit for we are doing it for the Lord Jesus. Spirit filled Christians are to look to no other authority than the Lord our God.
 
Man cannot serve two Masters; you it appears, have made that distinction.

Peace and Gods Blessings 
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gridboy

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Re: The pledge of allegiance--reasons not to say it!
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2009, 09:00:33 am »


I got sent to the principal's office in sixth grade for refusing to say the pledge.
I was at a little league game yesterday and was disturbed by their pledge:
"I will trust in God
I love my country
And I will respect its laws
I will play fair
And strive to win
But win or lose
I will always
Do my best."

The "respect its laws" gives the wrong message to little kids...

gridboy
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