The Mental Militia Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment  (Read 3340 times)

Hollywoodgold

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 845
  • You can trust them to be them...
COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« on: April 26, 2009, 11:24:24 pm »

There are important pieces of equipment that depending upon individual needs may not be justifiable (financially) to purchase. For instance, a 3-point tiller for a tractor or for that matter a tractor itself, my be very costly to afford/justify for a small acreage. An example is a 3-point tiller. Purchased new for a CAtegory 1 tractor, they range from $1500-3500. If you are planting a 1-acre garden, you would use the tiller about 8-12 hours a year. Spring cultivating, seed bed prep, and turning the garden over in the fall. Rationally, it is impossible to financially justify the purchase for that amount of use.

A "smarter" approach might be for a group to purchase the tool and share it when needed. You could easily share a tiller amongst 10-15 families with all getting their plant/seeds in the best time to plant with a great reduction in capital costs.

There must be many other examples like box-blades, trailers, hay buggies, and for that matter tractors.

What are your thoughts on working cooperatively through sharing capital costs versus working as an independent individual/farm/ranch/gulch and individually investing in the equipment and selling your services?

As I see it, the coop breeds collaboration, sharing and community while the "go it alone" approach fosters trade and business.


Logged
"Democracy must be something more than
two wolves and a sheep voting on what to
have for dinner."

kirgi07

  • Moderator Group
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Acting as a Curmudgeon unless otherwise specified.
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2009, 12:25:00 am »

There are important pieces of equipment that depending upon individual needs may not be justifiable (financially) to purchase. For instance, a 3-point tiller for a tractor or for that matter a tractor itself, my be very costly to afford/justify for a small acreage. An example is a 3-point tiller. Purchased new for a CAtegory 1 tractor, they range from $1500-3500. If you are planting a 1-acre garden, you would use the tiller about 8-12 hours a year. Spring cultivating, seed bed prep, and turning the garden over in the fall. Rationally, it is impossible to financially justify the purchase for that amount of use.

A "smarter" approach might be for a group to purchase the tool and share it when needed. You could easily share a tiller amongst 10-15 families with all getting their plant/seeds in the best time to plant with a great reduction in capital costs.

There must be many other examples like box-blades, trailers, hay buggies, and for that matter tractors.

What are your thoughts on working cooperatively through sharing capital costs versus working as an independent individual/farm/ranch/gulch and individually investing in the equipment and selling your services?

As I see it, the coop breeds collaboration, sharing and community while the "go it alone" approach fosters trade and business.





A walk behind tiller while cheaper ta operate it does take more muscle ta use.They can be had for less $ and parts/fuel stored by a family is way less than your "walk-in" price.It is 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other.I prefer the smaller units,they'll store easier and with less "moving" parts should be easier ta maintain.Good topic. Ought 7.
Logged
If you look like food you will be EATEN.

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Mr. Dare

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3491
  • My Strawman will beat hell out of yours any day!
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2009, 04:56:57 pm »

Co-oping equipment can work, but it requires a huge level of trust and commitment. Another possibility might be private ownership and rental agreements with people buying equipment outright, and helping offset the cost of purchase by paying each other on a pay as you go basis. I second Kirgi, great topic! :thumbsup:
Logged
"He's no fun, he fell right over!"
"I've got Deku Nuts coming outta my ass and I still can't kill this bastard!!!" (my sweet wife...)
"The road to Hell is paved with happy plans..."
"I do not avoid Twinkies, Duck, but I do deny them my essence." Joel

Thunder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3819
  • Go away, boy! Ya bother me! -Foghorn Leghorn
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 07:16:00 pm »

There's nothing wrong with having communal property.  Most libertarians cringe at the thought, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea as long as no one is forced to participate.  Consider it teamwork to accomplish mutual goals.
Logged
Thunder[/color][/font]



There are times, sir, when men of good conscience cannot blindly follow orders.  -Capt. Jean-Luc Picard

Wars will cease when people start loving their children more than they love the government.

People use the term 'chaos' only when they can't see far enough to view the big picture.   -Deepak Chopra

There are no illegal guns, only illegal gun laws.

velojym

  • Guest
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 07:25:37 pm »

There's nothing wrong with having communal property.  Most libertarians cringe at the thought, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea as long as no one is forced to participate.  Consider it teamwork to accomplish mutual goals.

That's pretty much how I see it. So long as it's completely voluntary, I don't have a problem with it.

Now, when a group of armed thugs move in and start demanding "protection" tithes... well, hell... that's what we have now anyway.


I don't have a problem with even full-on communist enclaves, so long as they don't coerce folks into joining or staying. When they market their
veggies and other goods to the "outside", they're still practicing capitalism. Wonder if that gets their panties in a bunch.
Hey, it works for Hugo Chavez.
Logged

Klapton Isgod

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4193
  • Long-Haired, Over-Fed, Leaping Gnome
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 07:30:09 pm »

I would also add that if you are in a real "gulch" community, and you are trusting your fellow gulchers to watch your back when TSHTF, methinks you had better be able to trust them to use your tractor or your power tools.  Also, trust is something that builds over time, based on people successfully meeting your expectations.  Sharing stuff is an excellent way to build that trust.  "He who is faithful in a little will be faithful over much."  Smaller-scale "tests" are a good way to find out if something like this could work in your group.
Logged
"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

Wyomiles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 440
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 08:33:41 pm »

When I was young my wife and I moved into a new neighborhood. The house was a repo and needed lots of work so we started in on it. I love to garden so I was always outside working on things.  One day the neighbor began pouring a new driveway. I went and got my oldest boots on and went over to help. I think it shocked him, but when he saw me dive in he knew not to refuse the help. He offered to pay me of coarse but I said not to worry about it.
 Next spring he decides to start a garden and had seen me rototilling everything in sight the year before. He asked to borrow the tiller and I said sure. Well I had run it hard and put it away dirty so I apologized for it's condition. Latter that evening the doorbell rang and he said he was done with the tiller. I walked outside to find this brand new machine sitting in my driveway. I was sure that, after the way I had treated it, it had finally broken down and I said that I would pay him back for replacing the old wreck. He burst out laughing and assured me that it was my old rottotill  He had used it and then spent a couple hours cleaning, painting, tuning and sharpening the blades on the thing.
Yep we COOPed a lot of stuff in the many years after that. Including our labor.
I miss that guy!
Logged

Joel

  • Just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many guns.
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5379
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 05:10:45 pm »

Co-op'ing power tools is a recipe for broken friendships, unless it's been clearly established by all parties just who's responsible for maintenance and repair RIGHT UP FRONT.

I spent a year and a half or so working in a repair shop not far from where I live.  If I had a dollar for every broken-machine story I heard that started with "I lent this to my [brother, neighbor, cousin], and..."  A lot of those relationships were as damaged as the machine, by the time I heard about it.
Logged
Yet another Freedomista blog: The Ultimate Answer to Kings is not a bullet, but a belly laugh.

Hollywoodgold

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 845
  • You can trust them to be them...
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 05:23:17 pm »

When I was young my wife and I moved into a new neighborhood. The house was a repo and needed lots of work so we started in on it. I love to garden so I was always outside working on things.  One day the neighbor began pouring a new driveway. I went and got my oldest boots on and went over to help. I think it shocked him, but when he saw me dive in he knew not to refuse the help. He offered to pay me of coarse but I said not to worry about it.
 Next spring he decides to start a garden and had seen me rototilling everything in sight the year before. He asked to borrow the tiller and I said sure. Well I had run it hard and put it away dirty so I apologized for it's condition. Latter that evening the doorbell rang and he said he was done with the tiller. I walked outside to find this brand new machine sitting in my driveway. I was sure that, after the way I had treated it, it had finally broken down and I said that I would pay him back for replacing the old wreck. He burst out laughing and assured me that it was my old rottotill  He had used it and then spent a couple hours cleaning, painting, tuning and sharpening the blades on the thing.
Yep we COOPed a lot of stuff in the many years after that. Including our labor.
I miss that guy!

Wyomilie:

I have had a few friends over time who have been of the same caliber. One friend, now deceased, would bring a present when the tool was returned and always in better shape than when borrowed.


Quote
"I lent this to my [brother, neighbor, cousin], and..."  A lot of those relationships were as damaged as the machine, by the time I heard about it.

I have also had this experience and it is always one of frustration. I believe that machines "wear" in a reflection of the primary "user" and when lent to a non-regular the difference in operation often causes breakage. This is a thought I have had many times before but may have no basis in reality.

My initial question was intended to apply to costly and infrequently used tools such as a tandem disc, 3 point tiller or plough. A head gate for cattle or other livestock would be similar.
Logged
"Democracy must be something more than
two wolves and a sheep voting on what to
have for dinner."

FDD

  • Big Dog
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2397
  • Welcome to Wyoming, Conceder everyone armed
Re: COOP-ing Gulch Equipment
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2016, 11:21:09 am »

oldie, but a goody

so what does everyone think about this now?
Logged
Nobody needs an AR-15
Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

I think, therefore I am not a progressive liberal socialist marxist democrat

That's WY
Pages: [1]   Go Up