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Author Topic: Is the rule of Law over in America?  (Read 5385 times)

Trap

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Is the rule of Law over in America?
« on: June 09, 2009, 09:34:56 pm »

"9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies."

1 down 9 to go.
With the ruling of the SCOTUS on the matter of the Chrysler sale, does the rule of law no longer apply?
I am no lawyer but aren't the bond holders higher on the food chain of debtors to be paid by the chrysler bk?
Has the Obama regime gained so much power that they can disregard bk laws and allow common stock holders to be repaid at a higher rate than contractual investors (bond holders)
Is this not a constitutional infringement "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
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"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. "

Thomas Paine, the American Crisis, No. 1, December 19, 1776

jamie

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 09:44:27 pm »

I think so, but the "line in the sand" keeps getting moved back.
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dogsledder54

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 09:57:40 pm »

One word- YES.
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Freedom Prevails

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 10:22:44 pm »

Oh hasn't followed the rule of law, or the Constitution since before he got in.  That does not make it undone does it?  I mean, it's still there right???
I am so confused.  Aren't we allowed, through some form or way to remove him from office on the grounds that he has, and continues to have no respect for the Constitution?  Isn't that what the impeachment process is all about?
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Kregener

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 10:26:06 pm »

9/11 saw to the rule of law once and for all.
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Elias Alias

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 03:52:30 am »

9/11 saw to the rule of law once and for all.

That is quite the remarkable statement. Says it all, and so concisely.

According to DHS, the rule of law is now the rule of lawlessness, and the state must destroy the law in order to effect it. DHS says that we who dare talk about the Constitution are threats to law enforcement, and our returning soldiers, coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan, you know, those soldiers who took the oath to support and defend the Constitution, well, DHS says they are potential terrorist converts, and law enforcement should monitor them more closely. 

A member of DHS who knows the score recently joined Oath Keepers. He noted the irony in his being required to take that oath in order to get his job with DHS, and yet knowing that in publicly announcing at the Oath Keepers site that he intends to honor that oath, his job with DHS may be in jeopardy. That's how topsy-turvy this insane Federal government has become. Too large, too powerful, too concentrated, to interfaced, too deluded with a false understanding of what that Constitution is all about, and too arrogant to question itself. Reminds me of something Thoreau once published -

"Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men, generally, under such a government as this, think that they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the evil. But it is the fault of the government itself that the remedy is worse than the evil. It makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens to put out its faults, and do better than it would have them? Why does it always crucify Christ and excommunicate Copernicus and Luther, and pronounce Washington and Franklin rebels?

"One would think, that a deliberate and practical denial of its authority was the only offense never
contemplated by its government; else, why has it not assigned its definite, its suitable and proportionate, penalty? If a man who has no property refuses but once to earn nine shillings for the State, he is put in prison for a period unlimited by any law that I know, and determined only by the discretion of those who put him there; but if he should steal ninety times nine shillings from the State, he is soon permitted to go at large again.

"If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth — certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn."


From Essay On The Duty Of Civil Disobedience, Henry David Thoreau, famous 19th Century anarchist
The essay is here: http://www.jeffersonrivercoalition.com/Thoreau_Civil_Disobedience.htm

Salute!
Elias
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Scratch

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 07:05:32 am »

Quote
That's how topsy-turvy this insane Federal government has become. Too large, too powerful, too concentrated, to interfaced, too deluded with a false understanding of what that Constitution is all about, and too arrogant to question itself.
And sadly, that very government is only expanding. Not only expanding its reach, but its arrogance as well under the guise of 'saving our economy', 'saving us from terror', or 'saving us from ___ (fill in the blank). Frankly, I don't feel the threat of boogey-man violence or disease.
Instead, I feel the threat from the federal government because the Supremes have once again folded our Constitution into an origami-like structure, colorful and eye-pleasing to the administration. The impotent and incompetent congress has been nothing more than a doorstop, holding open the door for those who would edit the Law of the Land.
Which begs the question: The administration might say its 'legal' but does that make it lawful? I find too few people can make the distinction. A presidential decree may carry the weight of law, but is it really law or just presidential fiat? If it doesn't pass the fine filter of the Constitution, its just plain unlawful.
I think the choir is ready to throw me out of the pulpit, but let me say this: I just wish there were a handful of Oath-Keepers in the senate. They might make all the difference in the world.
Literally.
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'the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.'

Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

dogsledder54

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 08:07:38 pm »


And sadly, that very government is only expanding. Not only expanding its reach, but its arrogance as well



True. But if my theory is correct, that will end with the bursting of a GINORMOUS MONSTER bubble- the financial collapse of the U.S. government. And they have (already) done it to themselves, with no way out. No way out, that is, except a possible world war. (Probablymake that DEFINITELY in the planning stages right now.)
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Scratch

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 09:58:35 pm »


And sadly, that very government is only expanding. Not only expanding its reach, but its arrogance as well



True. But if my theory is correct, that will end with the bursting of a GINORMOUS MONSTER bubble- the financial collapse of the U.S. government. And they have (already) done it to themselves, with no way out. No way out, that is, except a possible world war. (Probablymake that DEFINITELY in the planning stages right now.)

Private Joker,
 I can only pray you're wrong.
The ugly facts from past history say otherwise.
I would love to continue on my life's path; fat, dumb, and happy. I would love to be ignorant of the danger. I would love to be ignorant of the God-awful pain and suffering we will endure in the future. I would love the innocence that we had before the fall.
The only consolation will be giving our selves for what we believe.
Pray for the Republic
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'the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.'

Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

dogsledder54

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 10:04:28 pm »

Private Joker,
 I can only pray you're wrong.
The ugly facts from past history say otherwise.
I would love to continue on my life's path; fat, dumb, and happy. I would love to be ignorant of the danger. I would love to be ignorant of the God-awful pain and suffering we will endure in the future. I would love the innocence that we had before the fall.
The only consolation will be giving our selves for what we believe.
Pray for the Republic

Scratch- I wouldn't worry about it. If it happens, it happens. There is nothing we can do about it. We can react to it, if it comes, by being prepared. We have an advantage over most people. We have friends. And we will stick together. 2810 heads are better than one.
  :mellow:
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Freedom Prevails

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 12:12:27 am »

Will it make me a naysayer if I was to add a wee bit of a negative comment here?  In your comment Elias, "According to DHS, the rule of law is now the rule of lawlessness, and the state must destroy the law in order to effect it. DHS says that we who dare talk about the Constitution are threats to law enforcement, and our returning soldiers, coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan, you know, those soldiers who took the oath to support and defend the Constitution, well, DHS says they are potential terrorist converts, and law enforcement should monitor them more closely."

I honestly do NOT believe that our soldiers will return to the USA soil.  If the ones that are there now do return, there will be more sent out.  DHS, Obama, and the other political elites do NOT want our soldiers in the way.  In which, they will be in the way if they are here.  And I cannot honestly see the LEO's going against our soldiers, even if they are ordered to.  True there will be some, but not a lot.

Our soldiers need to stay where they are, safe and out of the elites way.  What our boys and girls should be doing over there is perhaps supping with their 'enemy', and not interferring with their way of life.  Just as we would not want them over here conducting war on the innocent and patriots.

True, it is only my opinion, but it is a very very strong opinion.  One of those that come from the gut. 
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Scratch

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2009, 12:37:46 am »

Private Joker,
 I can only pray you're wrong.
The ugly facts from past history say otherwise.
I would love to continue on my life's path; fat, dumb, and happy. I would love to be ignorant of the danger. I would love to be ignorant of the God-awful pain and suffering we will endure in the future. I would love the innocence that we had before the fall.
The only consolation will be giving our selves for what we believe.
Pray for the Republic

Scratch- I wouldn't worry about it. If it happens, it happens. There is nothing we can do about it. We can react to it, if it comes, by being prepared. We have an advantage over most people. We have friends. And we will stick together. 2810 heads are better than one.
  :mellow:
Roger that, Joker.
I got your back.
:thumbsup:
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'the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.'

Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

oxi

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2009, 04:16:28 am »

Quote
No way out, that is, except a possible world war. (Probablymake that DEFINITELY in the planning stages right now.)

The rhetoric from Israel and AIPAC seems to point to a possible showdown with Iran later this summer.  Israel conducted another massive air war games sending their fighters to Gibraulter and back in the Med. a few months back and they are planning a nationwide civil defense drill this month.  The GAZA invasion was to soften Hamas power base so they can focus on Hizzbolah and Syria to the north.

The U.S. has their X-band radar deployed in Israel so the next thing is to watch for naval movements in the theater of operations.  The U.S. will deploy warships may be the indication.  My question is how will Israel get the codes and permission to cross Iarqi airspace from the U.S.?

Also a side note is North Korea.  Though since North Korea is no longer a part of the NPT Treaty, they have every legal right to build nukes, who says we can stop them?  The rule of law is not being violated here.

Pakistan has had some success recently but their government is still in trouble and a few more mega terror strikes could cripple their regime and that new surge of troops for Afghanistan will be actually for Pakistan.

A wider world war could be the answer the bankers need to fuel the economies once again and Obama may just fall into their traps.  We shall see, he eletoral college presidency is still rather young.
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oxi

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2009, 04:22:33 am »

When a contingent of U.S. soldiers opens a radar facility on a mountaintop in the Negev desert next month, Israel will for the first time in its 60-year history have a permanent foreign military base on its soil. And despite the early warning that the American radar would provide if Iran launches a missile attack on Israel, some senior Israeli officials are nonetheless wary about its presence. Complained one top official, "It's a like a pair of golden handcuffs on Israel."

From its mountain perch in Har Keren, the U.S. radar will be able to monitor the take-off of any aircraft or missile up to 1,500 miles away — giving Israel a vital extra 60-70 seconds to react if Iran fired a missile, Israeli military sources told TIME. Israel has its own radar system trained on Iran, but it's range is much shorter. Still, some see several drawbacks for Israel in the radar, and blame Defense Minister Ehud Barak for requesting its deployment in Israel without consulting anyone other than his chief of staff. Some in the upper echelons of the Israeli Defense Force fear that although the radar will enhance Israel's protection against Iran, it may also open up Israel's own military secrets to the Americans.

The radar will allow the U.S. to keep a close watch on anything moving in Israeli skies, "even a bee", says one top Israeli official who asked not to be identified. The U.S. may be a close ally, but Israel nonetheless has aviation secrets it would rather not share. "Even a husband and wife have a few things they'd like to keep from each other," explains this source. "Now we're standing without our clothes on in front of America."

Israel will have no direct access to the data collected by the radar, which looks like a giant taco. It will only be fed intelligence second hand, on a need-to-know basis, from the Americans — unless the radar picks up an immediate, direct attack on Israel, Israeli sources claim. And Israeli officials expressed concern that the radar's installation may anger Moscow, since its range will enable the U.S. to monitor aircraft in the skies over southern Russia. When the U.S. stationed anti-missile radar and interceptor systems in Poland and the Czech Republic — ostensibly directed at a future Iranian threat, although the Russians believe their own missile capability is its real target — Moscow warned those countries that the move could result in their being added to the target list of Russia's missiles.

Israeli military sources say that Barak requested the radar from U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates in July, after U.S. requests to station such a system in Turkey and Jordan were rejected. Barak was eager to acquire the advantage of the early warning that the system would provide in the event of a possible Iranian attack. But with the Russians already peeved at Israel for having had military advisers inside Georgia when war broke out over South Ossetia, the radar's deployment in Israel, say officials, might make Moscow even more likely to supply Iran and Syria with its highly-accurate SA300 anti-aircraft missile batteries.

The top-secret X-band radar will be staffed by around 120 American technicians and security guards in the Negev, say Israeli military sources. But Israeli planning and air force officials are perturbed that Defense Minister Barak did not carry out any evaluation og the radar's possible impact on Israeli military operations before approving it. For one thing, Israeli defense experts are worried that waves from the X-band radar might throw off the accuracy of a new Gil anti-tank missile also being tested in the Negev. "The Bush Administration is in the mood to give us anything, as long as we don't attack Iran," gripes one senior official. "So why did we take this radar?"

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C1846749%2C00.html


A Time Magazine article citing Israeli military officials suggests a sophisticated long-range American radar system about to be deployed in Israel may be less about providing early warning of an Iranian missile attack, and more about hemming in Russia.

The radar base will be the first permanent deployment of foreign troops on Israeli soil in the country's short 60-year modern history.

Initial reports were that Washington offered the early-warning radar to Israel as compensation for not supporting plans to preemptively attack Iran's nuclear facilities.

But Time learned that Israel will not have direct access to the data collected by the radar, and will only be fed intelligence second-hand on a need-to-know basis by the Americans. That means Israel will not know whether the radar is trained on Iran or southern Russia.

Furthermore, the US tried to obtain permission to deploy the radar in Turkey and Jordan earlier this year, but was rebuffed by those nations.

Now top Israeli military officials are concerned that the deployment of the radar in Israel will elicit the same Russian anger as the recent deployment of similar systems in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Washington said the radars were to defend against an Iranian attack on Europe, but Moscow remains convinced that its own strategic forces are the target and threatened to add both Poland and the Czech Republic to its list of missile targets in response. The Israelis fear the Jewish state will now make that same list.

Additionally, Russia could respond to the deployment of the American radar by selling advanced defensive and offensive weapons systems to Iran and Israel's Arab enemies.




http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17294

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dogsledder54

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Re: Is the rule of Law over in America?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2009, 11:46:42 pm »

Israel will have no direct access to the data collected by the radar, which looks like a giant taco. It will only be fed intelligence second hand, on a need-to-know basis, from the Americans — unless the radar picks up an immediate, direct attack on Israel, Israeli sources claim. And Israeli officials expressed concern that the radar's installation may anger Moscow, since its range will enable the U.S. to monitor aircraft in the skies over southern Russia. When the U.S. stationed anti-missile radar and interceptor systems in Poland and the Czech Republic — ostensibly directed at a future Iranian threat, although the Russians believe their own missile capability is its real target — Moscow warned those countries that the move could result in their being added to the target list of Russia's missiles.
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 09:24:09 pm by Private Joker »
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