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Author Topic: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act  (Read 13338 times)

Basil Fishbone

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 11:49:45 pm »

Things will just have to continue on their current trajectory.  Given enough pain, bad pain, and already sufficient obvious transgressions, and enough onerous usurpations, coupled with the enormous education which the Internet has provided, millions now can put it all in some valid context.  The pork will eventually go away.  The middle class will finally have nothing left to lose.  The fed.gov and its empire is on a trajectory toward fiscal and political and even military collapse.
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2010, 09:49:19 am »

Fwd: Poll - Helena Independent Record
 From: Gary Marbut-MSSA <mssa@mtssa.org>
 To: mssa@mtssa.org
 
Folks,

You and your friends may wish to vote in this poll:



Does the lawsuit by several states ­ which argue
they should decide which rules, if any, would
control the sale and purchase of guns and
paraphernalia made inside their borders ­ belong
before the Supreme Court to “overturn a half
century of Commerce Clause precedent” as gun rights advocates claim?

<http://helenair.com/question/>http://helenair.com/question/

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com
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gaurdduck

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 10:44:22 am »

Fwd: Poll - Helena Independent Record
 From: Gary Marbut-MSSA <mssa@mtssa.org>
 To: mssa@mtssa.org
 
Folks,

You and your friends may wish to vote in this poll:



Does the lawsuit by several states ­ which argue
they should decide which rules, if any, would
control the sale and purchase of guns and
paraphernalia made inside their borders ­ belong
before the Supreme Court to “overturn a half
century of Commerce Clause precedent” as gun rights advocates claim?

<http://helenair.com/question/>http://helenair.com/question/

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

So far:

Yes     
79%
No     
21%
Total Votes: 106
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2010, 04:15:43 pm »

Lawsuit over MFFA goes to next level
 From: Gary Marbut-MSSA <mssa@mtssa.org>
 To: mssa@mtssa.org
 
NEWS RELEASE
(for immediate release - September 30, 2010)

Lawsuit Over Montana-made Guns Goes to Next Judicial Level

MISSOULA, MONT. - In MSSA v. Holder, the lawsuit
to validate the Montana Firearms Freedom Act
(MFFA), plaintiff Montana Shooting Sports
Association announced today that it is now free
to take this lawsuit to the next judicial level,
the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

MSSA president Gary Marbut commented, "We've
believed all along that the federal District
Court cannot grant the relief we request.  We
seek to overturn a half-century of bad
precedent.  Only the U.S. Supreme Court can do
that.  In that light the pending dismissal by the
District Court means little except that we are
now free to move to the next step of the process."

MSSA and its partner the Second Amendment
Foundation filed MSSA v. Holder on October 1,
2009, to validate the principles of the
MFFA.  Enacted by the 2009 Montana Legislature,
the MFFA declares that any firearms made and
retained in Montana are simply not subject to any
federal authority under the power given to
Congress in the Constitution to "regulate
commerce … among the states."  The MFFA is part
of a growing national effort by states to reject
federal authority and control over
everything.  It is an assertion of states rights,
and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution

Since the MFFA was enacted in Montana, it has
been cloned and enacted in seven other
states:  Tennessee, Utah, Wyoming, South Dakota,
Alaska, Idaho and Arizona.  Other clones have
been introduced in the legislatures of 20 other states.
(See:  http://www.FirearmsFreedomAct.com)

MSSA v. Holder has attracted numerous amicus
curiae parties that have filed supporting briefs,
including the State of Utah (also representing
other states), the Goldwater Institute, the
Paragon Foundation, Gun Owners of America, the
Weapons Collectors Society of Montana, Montana
Legislators, and Legislators from other
states.  It is expected that other amici will
join as this suit is appealed to the Ninth Circuit.

Once the Ninth Circuit rules on the appeal,
plaintiffs intend to appeal any continuation of
the dismissal to the U.S. Supreme Court, at which
point in the process plaintiffs could get an
actual ruling on the merits of the case.  Or, the
Ninth circuit could recognize the merit of the
issues involved and remand the matter to the
District Court for an actual trial.

"That the U.S. is so desperate to keep this
matter from going to trial," Marbut said, "tells
me that they are very afraid of any precedent
that might be established.  Normally, a Motion to
Dismiss is to preserve judicial economy.  In this
case it is to prevent a fair hearing on the
significant issues we raise.  The federal
government doesn't want any questions about the extent of its power."

"The vehemence of the recommendations by the
magistrate involved" Marbut continued,
"demonstrates the desperation of the federal
government, including its judicial branch, to
prevent a fair adjudication of the issues underlying the MFFA."

- 30 -

Information:  Gary Marbut; 406-549-1252


Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com
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Elias Alias

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 04:57:21 am »

freedom oriented states are just going to have to take a hard stand for 10th Amendment sovereignty.

And give up all that federal pork? Not in this lifetime.

Mmmm.... Not so fast there, Mate! Montana's political climate is shifting noticeably as the ominous character of the Federal government continues to cast a shadow over our fair state. The Census doing door-jamb GPSing; the Fed's insane drive to devalue the dollar via souped-up money-printing sprees; the bursting of the housing bubble; unemployment on the rise; property rights being challenged all over the state; the introduction of non-indigenous wolves which are wreaking hell on the elk populations and farm animals; the endless pressures to increase taxes; two undeclared wars which have gone on for years and involve the loss of Montana's sons and daughters in the military; increasing foreclosure figures; the now-known presence in Montana of ICLEI and Agenda-21; all such and much more continues to awaken more and more Montanans to the reality of  the Federal threat. Feds challenging Arizona, Feds challenging Montana, and Feds challenging so many other states which are asserting their Constitutional sovereignty, constitutes the buzz which is going around farm country and even in most towns and small (non-college) cities. Montanans are begining to see the trap at the bottom of the Subsidies barrel they've been bent over for so long, and are beginning to realize that they're going to lose their ranches and farms no matter which political party goes to town on the Hill.
I can think of a lot of reasons why Montana may become willing to get out of the government's pig trough. To continue to wallow in it is sure death for Montana. Montanans aren't quite that anesthestized, no matter what Life Mag may tell to the contrary. ;)

Salute!
Elias
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2010, 10:31:22 am »

In years past, Demoncraps in the legislature have held up a lot of gun rights and state sovereignty legislation.  This year the Republicans went from 50-50 in the House to 68 to 32, and increased their lead in the Senate.  Many of the newly elected Republicans are Ron Paul supporters.  I look for some interesting things this coming session, including, hopefully, Alaska carry. (No permit required for concealed carry in city limits, but you can get a permit if you want one. A permit facilitates travel to states with CC reciprocity.)
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Elias Alias

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2010, 01:34:29 pm »

In years past, Demoncraps in the legislature have held up a lot of gun rights and state sovereignty legislation.  This year the Republicans went from 50-50 in the House to 68 to 32, and increased their lead in the Senate.  Many of the newly elected Republicans are Ron Paul supporters.  I look for some interesting things this coming session, including, hopefully, Alaska carry. (No permit required for concealed carry in city limits, but you can get a permit if you want one. A permit facilitates travel to states with CC reciprocity.)

18 up for the R's and 18 down for the D's, with the shift being marked primarily by Tea Party constitutionalists and sovereignists - it all adds up to a better climate, politically, for what Gary Marbut has up his sleeve right now.

I just had a meeting with Gary Marbut and Stewart Rhodes this past week in Missoula. Great visit, with much discussed. Gary will be re-introducing his Sheriff First bill, so that one will be a great test of the new political waters. Can't wait! Also, we invited Gary to our Oath Keepers shindig in Helena in December.

Salute!
Elias
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2010, 04:51:37 pm »

Well Marbut and Rhodes may want to look and see there's ANY SCOTUS decisions where they ruled "for" the states..........and shake those in the face of the feds......
And if there isn't maybe an "unrelated" suit, which SCOTUS can only decide "for" the states might be in order.......thus creating a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario....
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

Elias Alias

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2010, 06:21:55 pm »

Well Marbut and Rhodes may want to look and see there's ANY SCOTUS decisions where they ruled "for" the states..........and shake those in the face of the feds......
And if there isn't maybe an "unrelated" suit, which SCOTUS can only decide "for" the states might be in order.......thus creating a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario....

Well, one of Oath Keepers' most respected Board members is Sheriff Mack. Mack has under his belt such a Supreme Court decision as you suggest - the Mack/Printz vs USA SCOTUS ruling, billed as "The monumental Supreme Court ruling that restored the 10th Amendment". The decision was June 27, 1997. Justice Scalia wrote for the majority in that case -

"It is incontestable that the Constitution established a system of 'dual sovereignty'. ... Although the States surrendered many of their powers to the new Federal Government, they retained 'a residuary and inviolable sovereignty'. Residual state sovereignty was also implicit, of course, in the Constitution's conferral upon Congress of not all governmental powers, but only discrete, enumerated ones."

Believe me, Sheriff Mack is shaking that one in the fed's face. Along with that, Marbut's MFFA2009 is sending a clear message to the Feds that the States are getting "fed" up with the Fed's way of ruling the American people, all of whom live within the several states, which do have certain sovereign rights over anything not conferred to or enumerated for the Federal government.

See? Montana is kicking ass. ;)

Salute!
Elias

edited by self to correct a mis-spelling - sheesh!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 06:25:03 pm by Elias Alias »
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2011, 07:25:13 pm »

Fwd: Briefs filed in MSSA v. Holder


Dear MSSA Friends,

Briefs are getting filed in MSSA v. Holder before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.  This is MSSA's lawsuit to validate the principles of the Montana Firearms Freedom Act.  this a challenge to federal power asserted under the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution to regulate every human (and non-human) activity under the guise of regulating "commerce ... among the several states."

As more briefs become available, we will continue to post them at:
http://firearmsfreedomact.com/montana-lawsuit-updates/

Appellants (those of us appealing the adverse decision of the federal District Court) include MSSA, the Second Amendment Foundation, and myself as the sole individual plaintiff.

Available so far are Appellants' Principal Brief, the brief of the Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence and the brief of the Pacific Legal Foundation.

Expected by the deadline next Monday are the briefs of the Goldwater Institute (now including CATO), the State of Utah (also representing several other states), the State of Montana (now backed down from Intervenor status to amicus status),  Montana Legislators, Gun Owner's Foundation (Gun Owners of America [also with U.S. Justice's Gary Kreep] ), the Weapons Collectors Society of Montana and perhaps even some of the anti-gun crowd such as the Brady Center For The Idiotic Idea That Guns Must Somehow Cause Violence.

Stay tuned.  We'll post more briefs to the Website as they become available.

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

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Junker

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2011, 09:03:21 pm »

Thanks again for your stance & work.
- - -

"Expected by the deadline next Monday are the briefs of the
  Goldwater Institute (now including CATO),
  the State of Utah (also representing several other states),
  the State of Montana (now backed down from Intervenor status to amicus status), 
  Montana Legislators,
  Gun Owner's Foundation (Gun Owners of America [also with U.S. Justice's Gary Kreep] ),
  the Weapons Collectors Society of Montana and
  perhaps even some of the anti-gun crowd such as
       the Brady Center For The Idiotic Idea That Guns Must Somehow Cause Violence."
- - -


And millions of freedom-loving Americans.

No?

Uhhh...

Well, I wish...
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2011, 11:13:15 am »


----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Marbut-MSSA
To: mssa@mtssa.org
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:44 AM
Subject: World Net Daily - MFFA and the Ninth


FYI

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=308825

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

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freewoman

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2011, 07:21:43 pm »

Thanks for posting the updates, Basil.  I do get a chuckle of anything that includes ". . . .v. Holder".  Go Gary and the MSSA!
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Junker

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2011, 07:49:10 pm »

"The wholesale stripping of independent sovereignty from the states has destroyed the balance of power, and..."

Hoorah! Good talk, From: Gary Marbut-MSSA


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Basil Fishbone

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Re: Gun Groups File Lawsuit - Montana Firearms Freedom Act
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2011, 12:42:39 pm »

Fwd: Final Briefs Filed- MSSA v. Holder - Analysis



Dear MSSA Friends,

The last briefs of those supporting our side of MSSA v. Holder have been filed with the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.  Those include the amici Goldwater Institute (joined by the CATO Institute), Gun Owners Foundation (joined by the U.S. Justice Foundation), and the State of Montana.  These additional briefs should soon be posted to and available to peruse at:
http://firearmsfreedomact.com/montana-lawsuit-updates/

Next, the U.S. DoJ (Holder) will submit its reply brief, rebutting arguments made in Appellants' (MSSA, SAF and myself) Principle Brief, and the briefs of various supporting amici (friends of us or of the Court).  Then, any amici may submit briefs supporting the U.S. position (the Brady Center for Whatever submitted an opposing brief at the District Court rehashing their standard, anti-gun rhetoric).  Then, Appellants (us again) will have the opportunity to submit a reply brief, rebutting arguments made by the U.S.

The case on appeal will then be assigned to a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit.  The Ninth is the busiest federal appeals court in the U.S., and simply doesn't have the time or resources to hear cases en banc (full court).  Oral argument may or may not be requested by the Court.  The decision of this three-judge panel will carry the full weight of a Ninth Circuit decision, although a motion for en banc review of the three-judge panel decision would then be ripe and might be a possibility down the road.

Remember, the purpose of MSSA v. Holder is to validate the principles of the Montana Firearms Freedom Act, and by doing so to BOTH breathe effective life back into the Ninth and Tenth Amendments AND to roll back federal power claimed under the guise of regulating "commerce" "among the several states" (the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution) - generally to set precedent for states' rights and state sovereignty.

What can the Ninth Circuit do with MSSA v. Holder?  There are many options.  They can remand back to the District Court for an actual trial on the merits of the case (the case was dismissed by the District Court prior to trial, which dismissal is now the subject of the appeal to the Ninth).  They can uphold the dismissal, upon which we would have the alternatives of moving for an en banc review or of appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court (where we actually need to get with this lawsuit).  The Ninth could give us a win on merit while upholding our standing and jurisdiction (unlikely, but in which the U.S. would probably appeal to the USSC).  The Ninth could also give us a partial win and partial loss, while also recognizing that we have standing and jurisdiction.  While there is absolutely no way to actually predict what the Ninth will do with MSSA v. Holder, the two most likely options are probably to either uphold the District Court's dismissal, or to reverse the District Court's dismissal and remand the case to the District Court for actual trial.

Regardless, it's a fascinating exercise in liberty, and will (has already) ratchet up the national dialog about the import of the Tenth Amendment.

Stay tuned ...  "May you live in interesting times." (Old Chinese curse.)

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

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