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[Ian]

I got this through an email list and thought I'd pass it on. It's online at http://www.co-freedom.com/2003/11/fsboston.html . I'm not going to copy it here because it's pretty long and basically just reiterates the arguments to pick WY over NH.

To summarize, Boston's no longer a member, having opted out of the eastern states and Alaska. He's going to be either starting his own Wyoming project or work to help the existing western project. From the sound of it (and what I know of him), he's putting a high priority on having armed and trained citizens as a deterrant, something the FSP appears to have little or no interest in (as a group, at least). I'm definitely looking forward to reading his novel and getting a better idea of his thoughts on the whole thing.

 

[Sunni]

I saw that too, Ian (not a coincidence, I'll wager!   ), but didn't have a chance to read the article in depth. Looked like he took some serious issue with the number-comparing vis a vis voting in NH and WY ...

It will be interesting to see his novel, on several levels. Thought it was supposed to be out RSN.

[Ian]

"RSN?" I don't know that abbreviation. He told me it would be out around or by Thanksgiving (can't remember the exact wording), and his letter says it'll be on sale in December. At the very least, I expect he'll work his ass off to make sure it's out before Christmas.

The core of the state debate (when it was happening) was over number of people (WY) vs job market (NH). I think it was pretty generally agreed that both states were nearly equal in current legal "libertarian-ness." In that letter, Boston simply reiterates (in detail) the explanation why Wyoming's lower population is better than NH's high population. Nothing new there (though it needn't be new to be correct or important).

Oh - there was one chunk of the letter that I did want to quote, on the topic of state selection voter turnout:

By the way, what excuse do the other 54% have, that the pre-addressed envelope was not stamped as well?

(You 54% nonvoting toads are beneath my contempt. We shouldn't have had even 54 no-shows, much less 54%! Thanks for proving to the world that not 1 in 2 libertarians can keep their word, even on an issue directly related to their future freedom. If I were Jason, I'd post all 3,000 of your names on the FSP website, like bad checks thumbtacked on a barroom wall. We need to know who the welshers are in our midst.)

In his typical meek and conciliatory style, Boston gets right to the point. I don't think I can disagree with him...

[Sunni]

Ian,

RSN="Real Soon Now."  

And yah, he's about as meek about the FSP vote turnout as I was nigh a year ago about FMN's meltdown. No wonder he and I get along so well!  

[ZooT_aLLures]

Ian,

There's an awful big difference betwen agreeing to do something at some point in the future and actually doing it.
This is not to say that these people had any intentions of "welshing out" on the deal, but rather that things change in our highly unstable economic climate.
Consider the fact that we've lost approximately 100k jobs per months since the year 2001, and it'd be easy to assume that at least some percentage of those jobs were held by perspective FSP folks.
By the same token some folks have probably dropped out, and others have probably joined, and there's probably even a scant few that had no intentions of ever moving anywhere, but instead were just there to boost the numbers.

Myself..........well I know my financial situation, and know that I couldn't just pack up and leave without having anything to "go to", so though my thoughts were with these folks, I never signed up, as I'd only be lying to both them and myself.

Yet by the same token having read this article yesterday, the guy seemed to make good sense, even if not in the best interests of the existing FSP........

[Sunni]

Uh, ZooT, what does the economic climate have to do with simply voting in the Free State selection? That's what BTP was going on about.

[mantispid]

Hmm.. what about those scientific types that are reporting massive geothermal activity building up below Yellowstone?  If it's true, I'd be way nervous about being anywhere near WY.

As far as I can tell, awakening dormant volcano in your home state = very very bad.

'course, it's probably one of those "Could erupt tomorrow, could errupt in 3003" things.
 

[ZooT_aLLures]

Sunni,
What does economic climate have to do with simply voting?

Was this just a vote?










 

[Carl]

Sunni,
What does economic climate have to do with simply voting?

Was this just a vote?

She asked first.

Yes, it was just a vote on what states porcupines preferred. Not even a binding vote on individuals, as anyone could opt out of any state they didn't like.

[Ian]

Zoot, I don't think it's too much to ask that people dropping out of what they agreed to do at least let the FSP know they're leaving.

I don't think the low turnout was because of people who were forced to drop out for economic reason, and I don't buy the theory that the nonvoters were committed members who simply had no state preference. I think it was result of people seeing the FSP site, thinking "hey, neato!", signing up, and forgetting about the whole thing a week later. I'm worried that the rercruiting goin on is geared towards getting as many people as possible to sign up, rather than seeking out those committed enough to follow through.

[Chris]

I think it was result of people seeing the FSP site, thinking "hey, neato!", signing up, and forgetting about the whole thing a week later.

 I always worried that this would be an issue.  It's one of the things that kept me from signing up with the FSP for quite a while.  Still and all, any collective enterprise is going to have a large percentage of uncommitted participants - just the nature of the beast.  

I'm worried that the rercruiting goin on is geared towards getting as many people as possible to sign up, rather than seeking out those committed enough to follow through.

 True enough, but how does the FSP go about seperating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak?  Just a different direction in the advertising?

- Chris

[ZooT_aLLures]

Ian,

I must agree with your theory that there were at least a few folks that signed up but never intended to follow through with the actual actions involved after deciding which state was to become home. and yeah it would have been nice if they would have let someone know, but they didn't.
Now let me ask on a more positive note, will those that dropped out, or never bothered to vote, affect the actions of the rest in the least bit?


And Carl,
While on the surface it might have been merely a vote to decide the state, underneath everything else it was also a call to (and I hope this doesn't get smudged) "shit or get off the pot".
What seems to have been at one time, changes from nothing but a dream into a distinct reality, but in some cases not a very comfortable or secure reality.
I'm not attempting to make excuses nor justify the actions of all, or even many, but the fact remains that peoples lives change, and what may have once been possible, might not be that way anymore.

[Carl]

While on the surface it might have been merely a vote to decide the state, underneath everything else it was also a call to (and I hope this doesn't get smudged) "shit or get off the pot".
What seems to have been at one time, changes from nothing but a dream into a distinct reality, but in some cases not a very comfortable or secure reality.
 

So you think that dreaming of freedom is just peachy-keen, but when it comes to the reality of deciding on (and choosing to move to) a state, the fact that it isn't a safe and comfortable choice makes it acceptable to chicken out of even voicing an opinion?

Screw economic concerns: NH was actually on my opt-out list. And those who know me are aware that I'm about as econimically challenged as they come. But at least I had the balls to _state my preference_. And I'm making my plans to relaocate to NH despite the fact that I never even committed to move there.

Since the vote allowed opt-out... No, it wasn't "shit or get off the pot." But I challenge you to answer that call. But even better, I challenge the FSP to do so (because if they can't get their shit together, I'll feel free to haul ass to my primary choice, Wyoming).

[ZooT_aLLures]

Carl,

Ok I'll say this for the record.
No, I don't think it's peachy keen for people to dream without any intent towards committing action, and no I don't think it's peachy keen that folks didn't even bother to return their ballot, even if blank.

But still that's exactly what DID happen.
Why?
Who knows?
What I do know is that I myself, am not going to call them a bunch of "dirty SOB's".

It's not over till the fat lady sings, and I ain't heard no songs yet.

 

[Herself]

That's okay, ZooT, I'll do it for you: the folks who signed up, had a ballot mailed to them, and tossed it out with last week's funny pages, are unwashed and rode a bicycle to their parents wedding.

     I didn't like the idea of allowing my future home to be determined by nose-counting, so I didn't sign up.  The notion is to actually take a stand.  Fish or cut bait, or get out of the boat!  The modern practice of spur-of-the-moment enthusiasm, rapidly adopted and casually set aside, is deplorable.  Not merely oath-breakers, but blithe, facile oath-breakers: can such persons be verbally excoriated to a sufficient degree?  Not really; but it may serve as a solemn reminder to them and a deterrent to others.

     FSP member non-voters? Filthy, cheap scoundrels, perhaps products of a fleeting, loveless union.  Sneering at 'em is too good for 'em!  

     --Herself