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Author Topic: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!  (Read 9561 times)

NuclearDruid

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ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« on: April 19, 2010, 09:34:29 am »

Extreme Homeschooling: No Tests, No Books, No Classes, No Curriculums 

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Ann Pleshette Murphy, parenting expert and "Good Morning America" contributor, questioned the unusual approach.

"This to me is putting way too much power in the hands of the kids, something that we know kids can often find anxiety-producing, and it's also sending a message that they're the center of the universe,

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Dr. Reef Karim, a psychiatrist, agrees.

"The whole concept of cooperating with your kid, it's kind of cool in theory," he said, "and if a child was a little adult I think it would be great, but he's a child."

commenters

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There are not many children that can relate to them or at least I hope not. I think what these parents are doing to these children is a form of child abuse or at least neglect.

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This is what is wrong with the world today. When children get to decide what and when they want to learn we have really lost all help for the future.
Because we all know that career counselors know what is best for your child. :rolleyes:

ND
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 09:54:50 am »

I'm not entirely comfortable with much of what I've read about "unschooling."  Most kids need some structure and the occaisional kick in the pants in order to learn the very important lesson of staying on task with something that needs to be done, even when it's boring etc. 

It certainly isn't abuse or neglect, as some of these sheeple are suggesting.  Abuse is sending your poor kid off to the sausage grinder to forced to conform with all the other obedient pre-sheeple.  Neglect is letting a government bureaucrat raise your kids for you.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

MamaLiberty

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 10:59:48 am »

My daughter started out with the "unschool" idea, and it worked very well when the children were small. They had a great time exploring all sorts of things and building a great relationship. It wasn't a free-for-all, and she stayed firmly in control of things, but there was little structure compared to standard "school." Both children learned to read, write, do basic arithmetic and lots of basic science, etc. They are both computer wizards and communicate far beyond their age level.

This last year, however, my daughter introduced greater structure and adopted a program she found at a homeschooling outfit. There was resistance at first, but both children seem to have taken hold and are actually enjoying the greater challenges now.

There is room for both.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 11:12:04 am »

That certainly sounds sensible.  Just like chores:  kids should get more of them and more challenging ones as they grow up.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

gaurdduck

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 11:42:42 pm »

I'd say about 98% of my knowledge comes from books I read in my own time.
All I learned from school other than my Horticulture studies was how drugs and
explosives are produced and trafficked, and how to confuse a drug dogs' sense
of smell.
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motomom

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 12:52:18 am »

Ok, I must be in the mood to tell stories this evening, sorry.

My dad, for various reasons, turned out to be the primary caretaker of my nephew.  Now, my dad was the original slow-talkin', slow-walkin', long, tall Texan.  Very few words, very firm action.

Nephew was 10 years old, and swinging on the gate while my dad was filling the horse trough with water.  It was about 35 degrees, a bit chilly for Texas.  Dad told him to get off the gate.  Nephew ignored him.  Dad said it one more time, get off the gate.  Nephew ignored him.  My dad, without saying another word, turned that water hose on him and just drenched him.  Nephew had to ride home about 15 miles in the back of the truck soaking wet. 

But he never swung on the gate again, and he listed a lot better after that.

Would that be called unschooling?  Or effective teaching?
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Bennie

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 04:25:53 am »

Ok, I must be in the mood to tell stories this evening, sorry.

My dad, for various reasons, turned out to be the primary caretaker of my nephew.  Now, my dad was the original slow-talkin', slow-walkin', long, tall Texan.  Very few words, very firm action.

Nephew was 10 years old, and swinging on the gate while my dad was filling the horse trough with water.  It was about 35 degrees, a bit chilly for Texas.  Dad told him to get off the gate.  Nephew ignored him.  Dad said it one more time, get off the gate.  Nephew ignored him.  My dad, without saying another word, turned that water hose on him and just drenched him.  Nephew had to ride home about 15 miles in the back of the truck soaking wet. 

But he never swung on the gate again, and he listed a lot better after that.

Would that be called unschooling?  Or effective teaching?

If I was the 10 y/o and that was my dad...I'd say, "I got lucky that day!"  :laugh:
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MamaLiberty

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 06:47:24 am »

Very effective.

I've been through a lot of formal education, but what my mother said was very true. School is where you learn the vocabulary and the rules of the trade. Then you go to work and learn the rest of it. :)

Can't remember who said it, but I never let my schooling get in the way of my education.
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Rarick

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 08:37:43 am »

They need a compass direction, but not each and every step dictated.  Some stuff is just tedious and need to be done, yes, but a lot of learning does not require the regimentation that I see now.   If our grades were good when I was growing up- A's and B's our parents did not worry about our wanting to stay home and help mom or dad.  By the time I was graduating High School grades were getting tied to attendance, if you missed X days- the teacher could not give you an A even though your homework and tests showed that is your level of mastery of that subject.  Attendance is only required for lock step production line work.  Since when were we an industrial nation? 20 or more years ago?  There should be more emphasis on reaching goals (like grades?) rather than mere conformity.
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NuclearDruid

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 09:27:08 am »

Good Morning America does follow-up today.
Viewers React to Radical Education Method That Shuns Schools, Textbooks, Tests

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A couple who practice "radical unschooling" said their hands-off approach to education and child-rearing is about exploring the world and living on principles, and is not "anything goes."
The Biegler family explains its decision to let their kids educate themselves.

Christine Yablonski and Phil Biegler appeared live on "Good Morning America" today to defend their controversial education method, which prompted an overwhelming response from viewers.

and other outlets have picked up the ABC hack job and are running with it.

Unschooling - Legitimate Home Schooling or Cheating Children Out of an Education?

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While this may work out fine for the most motivated of children, I, personally, disagree with the unschooling philosophy.  Having attended public school from Kindergarten through high school and then attending a four-year University, I took so much more than academic lessons away from my time at school.  I learned how to navigate society successfully, interact with both peers and adults, and forged friendships that have lasted a lifetime.  I was fortunate enough to be involved in many student organizations, from Student Council to my high school's drill team to yearbook, and have drawn on the skills learned at each on a daily basis.  While I felt certain before that home schooling in any form would take away from my daughter's educational experience, I feel more resolved than ever after this morning.

ND
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"I believe it is the duty of each of us to act as if the fate of the world depended on him. Admittedly, one man by himself cannot do the job. However, one man can make a difference..." -Adm. Hyman G. Rickover

mutti

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2010, 09:28:33 am »

Just as there are many definitions of Private Schooling, there are many ways to Unschool as well. I don't stand in judgement of the people in the article because I have never met them nor do I know if the story was unbiased or not.

We unschool - sort of. There are subjects that must be done: reading, math, science, history, foreign language, etc. and some texts to go along with that.

How they get it done is pretty much up to the minion - until guidance is needed. They might finish an entire weeks math in one day . Fine - the time they would spend with math is up to them to spend as they see fit.  Science might lag at which point we look at the situation. Is the information boring but necessary, do they not understand the concepts, how imperative is it that they learn that one thing, is there another approach that we can use?

The above is what learning is about IMHO.  Task needs to be done? Get it done at least on time or earlier if you want to do something else. Not interested in understanding theoretical chemical reactions - make it real/personal to that minion. Want to study history but not use the text? Fine - look through our library or used book store and find what you need to meet that requirement.

I find that for our situation, making minions realize that they are responsible for educating themselves (but we'll be there to back them up if they need it) works.

Unlike the ABC "scare tactic/slam story" slant  -  MO is each family should find it's own path.

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motomom

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 12:41:46 pm »

Mutti, I agree that each family should seek it's own path.  And, each child will need different tactics to learn most effectively, and it may not be a tactic that the parent is comfortable with.

My 3 older children would have done great with unschooling.  My youngest, on the other hand, would have never forgiven me if I had not allowed her to go to school.  She was always a social butterfly, and if I had home schooled her, I could have done it, but I would have had to work very hard at providing enough social outlets for her to be around other kids.  Now that she is almost a grown up, she still loves people, and I have come to realize that it is an innate quality she has, much like math skills or music skills or any other skills. 

Different processes work on different children.  Finding that perfect mix is certainly a challenge for any parent.

It was hard for me to admit that my 4th child was very, very different from the others.  But I know she is mine, because she was born at a very small hospital, and she was the only child born the entire time we were there.  No way she was switched at birth.   :laugh:
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Who...me?

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2010, 12:49:13 pm »

Very effective.

I've been through a lot of formal education, but what my mother said was very true. School is where you learn the vocabulary and the rules of the trade. Then you go to work and learn the rest of it. :)

Can't remember who said it, but I never let my schooling get in the way of my education.

Mark Twain
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NuclearDruid

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"GREAT COMEBACK FOR STOCK MARKET" - Front page, Spokane Daily Chronicle, October 22nd, 1929

"I believe it is the duty of each of us to act as if the fate of the world depended on him. Admittedly, one man by himself cannot do the job. However, one man can make a difference..." -Adm. Hyman G. Rickover

Rarick

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Re: ABC reports on the dangers of "radical unschoolers'!
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2010, 03:37:40 am »

Hmmm, a metric that schools always harp on is the teacher student ratio, and how the kids do on the tests.  So what is the typical teacher student ratio in home schooling? and how do home schooled kids do on the standardized tests?

More work on the part of lackey media to gain more government control thru muckracking and yellow jounalism mixed with "classy" purple prose.
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.
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