Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[RVM45]

Friends,

Lets leave aside morality for a moment.

I had always heard that NO Insurance company on Earth would be willing to take an amount equal to your Social Security deduction each payday and then match your Social Security Check each month once you start drawing—including those on Disability.

No Insurance Company could afford to do that because the Average Pensioner will draw out far more than he paid in…

That is why Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme.

I recently came across someone who clamed the OPPOSITE—that SS gives a very low return on the amount invested…

So which is Correct?


…..RVM45

[MamaLiberty]

I recently came across someone who clamed the OPPOSITE—that SS gives a very low return on the amount invested…

So which is Correct?

If we had been able to actually invest the amount that was stolen by government, we'd most likely be much better off. The money government steals is not EVER "invested," but thrown down rat holes and shoved into pockets as fast as they get their grubby hands on it.

No comparison.

It takes about 7 to 10 years for the average retired person to "break even," but only if you count the amounts stolen from the employer as well. Remember they "contribute" half... And then there is the stolen money for "medicare" that goes down a rathole and into pockets even faster than SS. I don't know the exact numbers, but a good half of those receiving medicare "benefits" now never paid in a dime. And then there's medicaid, Obummercare, and a lot more. All so-called entitlements, with nothing but inflation and lies to back them.

The big problem with Social Security and Medicare is that they are unfunded mandates. No matter how much is collected from workers and employers, the promises made to previous generations cannot be kept as the economy tanks and the ponzi scheme is revealed. Future generations may decide to honor that mandate. I suspect they will not, or will not be able to do so no matter what they want.

But these things are but a tip of the iceberg. Just try to contemplate the actual cost to taxpayers for all of the government institutions, employees, programs and "property." The pensions and health care for the glorious leaders and their minions is costing far, far more than most people believe. Just try to calculate that for your own town. It is staggering. Consider that very small towns now have million+ "budgets" and are ever scratching for more and more of everything the people there have and produce.

[RVM45]

ML,

I agree, there are hidden costs, unintended and even unforeseen consequences…

And with Deviocrats and Obfusticans some times the side-effect is what is actually sought.

In the context the remark was made:

"Among 'Men in the Street' only those who cannot do simple arithmetic think that SS is a Good Deal."

The "Man in the Street" probably knows very little of the hidden costs (and lost opportunity costs because some shoestring entrepreneurs get shuffled out of the deck early on…)


….RVM45


Have you seen the commercial where the Unicorn Shits Rainbow-Hued Ice Cream?

Apparently many/most(?) Americans think that's how the Govie Shits Benefits.

What the Hell, if we must live in a "Brave New World" I want state supplied Hallucinogens and Opiates!

Yippee-KY-AYY!!! For Soma!

At least then I can nurse my grievances in a Mello State of Mind...

[Silver]

I recently came across someone who clamed the OPPOSITE—that SS gives a very low return on the amount invested…

So which is Correct?

There isn't an insurance company on Earth who wouldn't love to sell you an annuity on Social Security terms.  They would be stealing from you.

It isn't very hard to get 5% average rate of return over the long haul.   It's been much harder since 2008, thanks to the fed's insane zero interest rate policies, but most of the time you could take the same funds stolen from your paycheck (and your employer) for SS and invest in very low risk stock and bond funds and get at least 5% returns.

I haven't updated the performance of the REAL IRA since May 2015, where you buy gold coins every year, but from 2000 to 2015 that strategy easily beat the 8% returns that many financial advisers use to estimate retirement plans.

Typical SS rates of return for 2-income families with average income is less than 1.5%.  If you are more likely to have a short lifetime and earn less than average wages (think young black men) the rate of return is negative.

SS payments MUST be less, because they are never invested, just stolen and spent right away. From the founding of the scam the excess funds have been spent on whatever congress felt like.  In the past few years the payouts have become larger than the take so other taxes and liberal money printing are used to make up the difference.

Peace,

Silver

[RVM45]

Thanks,

I learn more all the time.

I'd carried around that incorrect meme on Social Security for decades.

Well while I'm ignorant I will change my mind about many things…

{As I contend, with some things, the Pragmatic considerations just don't matter. Even if someone could convince me that Freedom led to less safety and a far lower standard of living—which I do not believe, but even if I could be persuaded—Freedom is treasured for its own sake…}

Thanks Silver and ML.


…..RVM45

[fred.greek]

When I took early retirement (2012 – age 57), I went thru my records (packrat that I am) re Social Security (SS).   During my total working years the amount that went into SS “on my behalf” was $193,818.88.  I did a spreadsheet using the historical interest rates for plain old savings bonds.  If, year by year, the money that went to the SS had instead gone into savings bonds and I held those bonds, at my ("early") retirement in 2012 there would have been $406,234.15

Per the SS statement, supposedly five years later at age 62 I could start to receive $1,692 per month.  Of course, if the wife & I die before I turn 62, everything in SS goes “poof”. 

When I look at the amount flushed into the SS slush fund toilet, I see what could have been the 2012 CASH purchase of four decent small rental units… That would have immediately been paying significantly more than $1,692/month, essentially indefinitely, and leaving a valuable inheritance for the kid…

If you want to manually calculate your Social Security yourself, get the documents at:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10070.pdf

[Cherokee]

Think of the number of people who paid into social security but died before drawing a penny. Here is a list from my family.

1. Brother- died at age 34
2. Sister-  died at age 40
3. Brother- died at age 68

None of them drew a penny from SS. They all started working around age 16. That's just three people from one family that paid into SS for a combined total of 94 years and never collected. None of them had spouses or other family members eligible to draw from their SS. Think of the millions of others who have died without collecting. That's a lot of money.

[DiabloLoco]

Think of the number of people who paid into social security but died before drawing a penny. Here is a list from my family.

1. Brother- died at age 34
2. Sister-  died at age 40
3. Brother- died at age 68

None of them drew a penny from SS. They all started working around age 16. That's just three people from one family that paid into SS for a combined total of 94 years and never collected. None of them had spouses or other family members eligible to draw from their SS. Think of the millions of others who have died without collecting. That's a lot of money.

Now.....think of all the people (like me) who will not be able to draw on SS at all! There won't be anything left to draw from. YET I still have to pay for YOUR social security and for whatever the hell else TPTB is using that stolen money for. I'll tell you what, if I could NOT pay for your SS, and be able to invest that money for myself, I'd be MUCH better off.