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Author Topic: Maunderings On Leadership  (Read 8445 times)

rick

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2003, 06:17:15 am »

Could the leadership problem have its cause in the fact that folks call themselves libertarians just because they don't want and need leaders?

I think, even with libertarians leadership should not be such a problem, just remind the folks why they joined the team. Nobody forced them. They are volunteers. So if they refuse what they volunteered to do they'll work against themselves.
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rick

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Hunter

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2003, 01:59:35 pm »

Rick, that is exactly what they do. Or rather, when presented with an opportunity for action, you get... nothing. And to be consistent with the philosophy that everyone says they agree with, you have to cheerfully soldier on despite the lack of participation. It can be more than a bit disheartening at times.  
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septithol

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2003, 11:54:04 pm »

The question is whether 'leadership' is a 'good' thing. I think a lot of the inaction on the part of people without leadership is that they are mentally crippled. Having grown up in a society FULL of busybody leaders, without one a lot of people are at loose ends. It is rather like a child who grows up with a leg brace they didn't need. Eventually at some point they become dependent on that leg brace, and cannot walk very well without it. Learning to do so will take time and a lot of painful effort.

But regarding 'leadership' itself, I do not think that that is a 'good' thing. I think that in the future, as the science of psychiatry developes, it is eventually going to be found that the desire to control others (beyond the very limited extent necessary to keep them from violating your own rights), is in fact, sociopathic in nature. By that definition, those who seek out political, or other 'leadership' positions which enable them to exercise control over others, are sociopaths by definition, and probably the very last people who should ever be trusted in those positions. This may, btw, explain a great deal about the world we live in.
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mantispid

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2003, 08:06:05 am »

Quote
But regarding 'leadership' itself, I do not think that that is a 'good' thing. I think that in the future, as the science of psychiatry developes, it is eventually going to be found that the desire to control others (beyond the very limited extent necessary to keep them from violating your own rights), is in fact, sociopathic in nature.
I view it more as being a seduction via instinct...  I think such desire to control others has a genetic component, as there are dominance structures in most primate populations (and many other mammals as well).  Of course, part of being a free-thinking individual is recognizing which urges are instinctual and how to consciously deal with them in ways that do not inconvenience others.
 
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rick

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2003, 08:52:28 am »

Quote
Those who lead by authority have rivals on whom they must expend as much energy and attention as they do on their enemies. Those who lead by example have enemies, but no rivals

L. Neil Smith put these true words into the mouth of Alexander Hope (NOT Hamilton ROFL)

If someone shows me a masterpiece he himself has performed, I will probably perform similar, just to answer the challenge. Giving me an example and leaving to me the decision to act on my own is a good way to get me doing something. In most cases something different from the example.
What do libertarian leader want to perform? Do they want to encourage other people to move themselves towards liberty or do they want them to join their way and follow in loockstep? Liberty has full 360° approaching angle in three dimensions, so my approach to it might be completely different than my neighbors'. Do leaders want to see results or a "common effort"? Is the goal liberty, freedom, choice - or is it the success of an organisation like a party?
Ask these questions to your leaders, the answer might be interesting...
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rick

I bear no hate against a living thing I just love my freedom all above the King

rick

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2003, 09:16:04 am »

Thre is one recipe against locksteppers, be they mentally crippled or not: Let'em lockstep wherever they want - they won't get far anyway and march to your own drumbeat. To move others often fails due to their inertia, so move yourself!
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rick

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septithol

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2003, 12:34:30 pm »

Mantispad: You wrote:
<I view it more as being a seduction via instinct... I think such desire to control others has a genetic component, as there are dominance structures in most primate populations (and many other mammals as well). Of course, part of being a free-thinking individual is recognizing which urges are instinctual and how to consciously deal with them in ways that do not inconvenience others.>

That might very well be. However, IMHO, whatever part of the genetic code that is responsible for causing one to wish to control others is ALSO responsible under other circumstances for the potential to be a mindless 'sheeple', since by definition the desire to control others cannot exist without first accepting that controlling people and having people being controlled is an acceptable (possible) mode of behavior. However, not all people HAVE this particular 'snip' of genetic code, and recent events seem to be favoring those who do NOT (the eccentrics of the world), since being a leader or a follower is all very well in a pack of apes where the dominance struggle is limited to scratching and biting. In Homo Sap where being the dominance struggle tends as often as not to be deadly global warfare and being a mindless sheeple will get you either drafted or put in a concentration camp, most of those those with this gene are not favored for leaving offspring.

The following quote from my book about eccentrics by Dr. David Weeks explains this: "The eccentrics way of interacting with the world can be so fundamentally different that the standard psychological apparatus is almost useless in evaluating the eccentric personality. For example, one of the basic qualities that psychologists use to evaluate a person's personality is self-presentation. Five basic strategies of self-presentation have been described: Ingratiation, Intimindation, Exemplification (being an example or model), supplication (relying on others for help), and self promotion. Eccentrics do not pursue any of these strategies except the last, self promotion, which occurs among them to a normal degree. Typically, eccentrics expend their mental energy on activities that do not require self-presentation, such as absorbing intellectual challenges. The whole category of self-presentation, as far as eccentrics are concerned, should be marked 'does not apply'."

Also I think it should be noted that I believe that genetically, a lot more people are probably natural 'eccentrics' than actually display eccentric/libertarian behavior phenotypically. The reason for this is that it states elsewhere in my book that eccentrics on average are healthier, happier, and longer lived than non-eccentrics. Since an organism tends to be healthier, happier, and longer lived when it is living in as natural a state as possible, I therefore conclude that being eccentric IS the natural state for most people, but that they have been intimidated through various means into behaving like conforming sheeple by (and for the benefit of) those remaining individuals who are possessed of the atavistic alternate genetic code for dominance/submission type behavior.
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Hunter

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Maunderings On Leadership
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2003, 04:11:34 pm »

You're operating under a faulty assumption - leadership does not imply control. One can lead by example, or lead by the informed choice of those who for tactical reasons agree to it. Rick has already pointed out one motivation for a free individual to choose to follow another person - wanting to "match" another's achievement. There are some very good models out there for ad hoc, non-coercive means of organization - I always rather liked the Liberty Incident Command System, developed from the system emergency response teams use to sort out command and control issues when multiple teams respond to big fires and disasters.

Believing in libertarian philosophy does not mean you can't CHOOSE to participate in a voluntary association or a group of some sort formed for a specific task - a militia, for instance, or a company producing sprockets or widgets. Some of those are going to have leadership positions - the Captain of the militia, the owner of the company. The style will HAVE to be different than most current leaders, but they will still be leaders.

 
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