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[DiabloLoco]

It was the forced adherence to christian beliefs that ultimately downgraded female worth in Europe.

Oh, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.... </sarcasm>

He's right, you know.

Oh, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.... Because everyone knows and agrees that it is always and entirely the Christians who have such little regard for the women</sarcasm>

I think that YOU are the only one that mentioned "always and entirely". Don't put words in others mouths. Sarcastic or not, it's not nice.

Back on the topic of Vikings, What do you think about Floki and Athelstan? Will Floki betray Ragnar? Will Athelstan stay in England?

[Tipitaka]

It was the forced adherence to christian beliefs that ultimately downgraded female worth in Europe.

Oh, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.... </sarcasm>

He's right, you know.

Oh, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.... Because everyone knows and agrees that it is always and entirely the Christians who have such little regard for the women</sarcasm>

I think that YOU are the only one that mentioned "always and entirely". Don't put words in others mouths. Sarcastic or not, it's not nice.

History is neither kind nor unkind. It is what it is. In the bible, women are to be submissive. In Asatru, women are powerful and every couple is a divine pair with the wife representing life, creativity, magic, and wisdom. In old European Christianity before the Catholics and Protestants split up (Inquisition and Crusades were also their fault), the women were the first to sin, they were thought to be the property of their fathers and then husbands instead of their equals. This is a fact. It is not meant to be insulting, it is just a fact of history. I even remember a sermon when I was growing up. It was during camp meeting; and the guest preacher was Bishop TD Jakes. He gave the sermon in 4 parts over 2 days about Jezebel and how women are to be their husband's servant, not their equal. So this sentiment exists in America even today. My own mom still believes it. It still manifests in American culture a well in most traditionalist families where the male is the head of the household and his wife goes along with his decisions. That is not how ancient Germanics and Celts lived. If you take a look at each point in their history from the stone age to the present, you will find for yourself that women's rights disappeared at the same time that their religion changed. If a wife is her husband's equal, going by the good-book, she's living in sin. I didn't write it, I just read it. If you don't like the contents, take it up with the author.

[Moonbeam]

I think that YOU are the only one that mentioned "always and entirely". Don't put words in others mouths. Sarcastic or not, it's not nice.

Back on the topic of Vikings, What do you think about Floki and Athelstan? Will Floki betray Ragnar? Will Athelstan stay in England?

I am so sorry, DL! That was presumptuous of me to assume you would understand my humor. Despite your Personal Text, you are a sensitive fellow and I should have remembered that from previous encounters. I apologize for not taking your sensibilities into account. I wish you peace and prosperity this Easter!

As for Vikings, we are behind a couple of episodes so please allow me to catch up before offering commentary!

[Moonbeam]

So this sentiment exists in America even today. My own mom still believes it.

God could care less who writes the check for the family car or who does the grocery shopping. God appointed men to be the spiritual leader of the family, and holds them accountable for the spiritual welfare of the family. Just because your Mom, or others believe that men have total authority over women doesn't make it so. My husband and I need to be in agreement on matters concerning our children, our finances, our future plans, and how to grow in the Lord. If I am in total disagreement with him about one of those issues, he would be a fool to plunge ahead without my consent. Likewise, reversed. If you wish to discuss this further, please feel free to start a new thread and I will gladly address your concerns.

[mi6a2lm]

[Fixed misspelling]

[DiabloLoco]

[Fixed misspelling]

  No thanks. I like my lungs right where they are. INSIDE my chest cavity. Not on my shoulders.

[mi6a2lm]

[DiabloLoco]

These are great! Are you making them?

[mi6a2lm]

These are great! Are you making them?

Yeah, just bored.  I goto images.google.com and search for say 'ragnar vikings', click on link, then rightclick-save image as. 

Then goto http://wigflip.com/roflbot/, upload image, add text, resize it, move it around or whatever, save to desktop.

Then upload that to postimage.org, making sure the image isn't too big (the above two didn't need to be resized), copy direct link, sandwich between

Code: [Select]

[img]...[/img] and post.

[DiabloLoco]

These are great! Are you making them?

Yeah, just bored.  I goto images.google.com and search for say 'ragnar vikings', click on link, then rightclick-save image as. 

Then goto http://wigflip.com/roflbot/, upload image, add text, resize it or whatever, save to desktop.

Then upload that to postimage.org, making sure the image isn't too big (the above two didn't need to be resized), copy direct link, sandwich between

Code: [Select]

[img]...[/img] and post.

Cool, thanks!

[Moonbeam]

I like this first one, Mi6!

[Tipitaka]

So this sentiment exists in America even today. My own mom still believes it.

God could care less who writes the check for the family car or who does the grocery shopping. God appointed men to be the spiritual leader of the family, and holds them accountable for the spiritual welfare of the family. Just because your Mom, or others believe that men have total authority over women doesn't make it so. My husband and I need to be in agreement on matters concerning our children, our finances, our future plans, and how to grow in the Lord. If I am in total disagreement with him about one of those issues, he would be a fool to plunge ahead without my consent. Likewise, reversed. If you wish to discuss this further, please feel free to start a new thread and I will gladly address your concerns.

I'm not concerned about how your family is organized. What I said has nothing to do with you. It's great that you two communicate. That's how marriages stay together without the threat of the Inquisition or modern tele-preachers declaring an assertive woman to have made a pact with Satan.

[Fixed misspelling]

Sweet! I just came back from Lindisfarne. Would you be interested in Saint Peter's jewel encrusted Baculum?

[Moonbeam]

I'm not concerned about how your family is organized.

Then you'll definitely want to stay away from the Moonbeam- Suppression of females in the Bible thread! 

[Moonbeam]

I never knew that women were held in such esteem in that culture.

Oh sure! I mean, it’s not like Rollo raped a young girl. Or it’s not like Ragnar cheated on his pregnant wife - knocking up the other woman, and then told his wife that he wanted to be a polygamist. And it’s not like Lagertha left the only place and people she knew because she was greatly humiliated, and then married an abusive a-hole, and it’s not like she is constantly fighting off would-be rapists. And it’s not like Siggy was used by her paranoid husband, then lost her status, her husband and all her children because of cultural traditions. And it’s not like women are given away for arranged marriages, or put in servitude, or are slaves who have absolutely no rights and can be raped without consequence or better yet – sacrificed to their gods! And it’s not like Englishwomen are raped when their villages are pillaged and their men are being murdered. Oh wait! This is a fictional show and things like this would never happen in real life!

Oh Moonbeam, please! There were some good things! Like, they listened to some of the women’s advice.

Oh sure! And there is also the “shield maidens” going on raids (though it’s dubious that was factual). And if you’re a really lucky gal, your husband will keep your skull after you die and will lovingly stroke it, kiss it and talk to it! Good thing those Vikings had really cool beards and braided hair!

[DiabloLoco]

I never knew that women were held in such esteem in that culture.

Oh sure! I mean, it’s not like Rollo raped a young girl. Or it’s not like Ragnar cheated on his pregnant wife - knocking up the other woman, and then told his wife that he wanted to be a polygamist. And it’s not like Lagertha left the only place and people she knew because she was greatly humiliated, and then married an abusive a-hole, and it’s not like she is constantly fighting off would-be rapists. And it’s not like Siggy was used by her paranoid husband, then lost her status, her husband and all her children because of cultural traditions. And it’s not like women are given away for arranged marriages, or put in servitude, or are slaves who have absolutely no rights and can be raped without consequence or better yet – sacrificed to their gods! And it’s not like Englishwomen are raped when their villages are pillaged and their men are being murdered. Oh wait! This is a fictional show and things like this would never happen in real life!

Oh Moonbeam, please! There were some good things! Like, they listened to some of the women’s advice.

Oh sure! And there is also the “shield maidens” going on raids (though it’s dubious that was factual). And if you’re a really lucky gal, your husband will keep your skull after you die and will lovingly stroke it, kiss it and talk to it! Good thing those Vikings had really cool beards and braided hair!

Ragnar's son, Bjorn, COULD have raped that slave that he fancied, but didn't. At least he has some integrity. Lagertha had the freedom to leave Ragnar even though he was a very powerful figure. She's an EARL now! That is more what I was talking about. That a female could actually be an Earl. That says something. Viking marriages were not arranged. The only arranged marriage I have seen so far, was in England. I'm not trying to distract from the bad things that you mentioned. They were indeed bad,  but I'm still gonna watch it! It's on tonight!!!