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Author Topic: Sharpening knives  (Read 13000 times)

MamaLiberty

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Sharpening knives
« on: November 07, 2011, 07:46:03 am »

Question for all you experts here. My butchering kit comes with several very nice knives and a sharpener. The problem is that I don't know how to use that kind of sharpener. It is a long metal rod with grooves lengthwise. I have used a ceramic rod a few times (not impressed) and have other sharpeners, but would like to learn to use this one if it is any good. 

Anybody know?
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mutti

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2011, 07:55:03 am »

If you can put up with this guys loudness - this is the video I used several years ago to learn to sharpen without a stone :

http://www.viddler.com/explore/brucetretter/videos/1/

Of course you can always just turn off the sound....
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2011, 08:18:38 am »

If you can put up with this guys loudness - this is the video I used several years ago to learn to sharpen without a stone :

http://www.viddler.com/explore/brucetretter/videos/1/

Of course you can always just turn off the sound....

Thanks, but that looks nuts. I'm not going to be slashing back and forth that way. sigh. And it would seem the grooved rod is not really a sharpener after all.  I've got this yellow plastic deal with crossed steel things embedded and one runs that down a blade that is held firmly to the counter or something solid. It sharpens kitchen knives great, but the butchering knives are heavier and it doesn't seem to work as well for them. I have a small Arkansas oil stone that I use to sharpen my pocket and field knives, but it would take forever to do the butcher knives that way. Guess I need to get one of the diamond dust rod things.

If it matters, the knives are old fashioned carbon steel, not stainless.
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Mountain Prepper

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2011, 12:01:51 pm »

Question for all you experts here. My butchering kit comes with several very nice knives and a sharpener. The problem is that I don't know how to use that kind of sharpener. It is a long metal rod with grooves lengthwise. I have used a ceramic rod a few times (not impressed) and have other sharpeners, but would like to learn to use this one if it is any good. 

Anybody know?

That traditional rod with a handle is not actually for sharpening the knife but is used to do something called “truing the edge” that is it is supposed to get the edge back forward after the sharpened edge is bent from chopping on a wooden block or hitting bone. It does not sharpen the blade but get it back to the correct direction, this sounds batshit crazy but for a butcher using a block and chopping on meat it is very useful. It is called “honing” but that is not exactly correct as honing is an “evening" technique on a very fine stone or leather strop.

Your “V” shape cross blade tool is also similar to a rod and will “true” an edge, but is also very aggressive and will remove material along with a slightly bent blade at the end as the cross design leaves a weight or bend to one side.

Sharpening a knife and a razor is a technique that takes some time to develop - there are kits that help keep an exact angle on a stone, and then the professional knife-making belt grinding kits that are motorized (and dangerous along with very aggressive).
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2011, 12:07:48 pm »

So, what is the best way to sharpen the butcher knives? They need to be sharpened several times while I process a carcass and I can't take all day doing it. I finished last time with dull knives and that is just far toooooo dangerous. I was exhausted and the meat was getting far too warm... so I hurried. Not good. Luckily, I didn't hurt myself, but it came close a few times. I'm boning the meat, not cutting across it.
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DPR 2006

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 12:50:33 pm »

I use an electric knife sharpener.  It has a "rough" sharpening section, and a finishing section.  Nice and simple.  I like simple.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2011, 01:19:18 pm »

I use an electric knife sharpener.  It has a "rough" sharpening section, and a finishing section.  Nice and simple.  I like simple.

Well, that would work at home... sort of hard to plug in out in the woods. :)
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Mountain Prepper

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2011, 03:40:06 pm »

I use an electric knife sharpener.  It has a "rough" sharpening section, and a finishing section.  Nice and simple.  I like simple.

Well, that would work at home... sort of hard to plug in out in the woods. :)

What if you used two stones (one rough and one medium or fine) every now and then a few strokes on the rough stone then the fine and then back to the work? Possibly finding the use for your V contraption in on that...

I have always hated the sticks (hone or sharpening) most likely because I learned the push method (not drag) on stone sets (rough, medium, fine, hone) with the use of a strop also...
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2011, 03:49:05 pm »

What if you used two stones (one rough and one medium or fine) every now and then a few strokes on the rough stone then the fine and then back to the work? Possibly finding the use for your V contraption in on that...

Yeah, I guess. I'll just have to buy some larger stones for those knives. The little one I use for my pocket knives would take forever to use. My small knives are sharp enough to shave with. :)

Quote
I have always hated the sticks (hone or sharpening) most likely because I learned the push method (not drag) on stone sets (rough, medium, fine, hone) with the use of a strop also...

I've never used the rods, and probably would have the same problem with the diamond one. It's possible a larger "V" type and a stone to finish would be a good combination. I would never actually use an electric sharpener. My aunt had one and all her knives looked like ice picks because they'd been worn down so much.

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Cathryn

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2011, 04:05:40 pm »

There's abit of an art form to it all.  If you like I will try to put together a video, or at least a photo tutorial and email it to you.

Cathryn
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 04:17:58 pm »

There's abit of an art form to it all.  If you like I will try to put together a video, or at least a photo tutorial and email it to you.

Cathryn


Thanks, but I've been sharpening knives with a stone for more than 40 years... unless doing it for larger ones is somehow different. :) It's just SLOW.  :rolleyes:

I never had such nice big butcher knives before either. Bought myself a heavy duty kit to take into the field as well as use at home. Just thought I'd see what people had to say about the rod thing, which I've never used before.
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Cathryn

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 04:54:28 pm »

Sorry, Mama,  didn't mean to imply that you don't know how to sharpen a knife.  I guess what I meant was, I'll pass on photo's of the stuff I prefer for sharpening my kitchen knives.  I've got one particular VERY large knife that came dull as ditchwater, and now will pare off paper thin slices of anything I care to slice up.  Diamond rods, ceramic rods, V-notch sharpeners are all rubbish IMNSHO.  I just use an ordinary fine gauge single cut mill file, and a two sided flat diamond hone that I paid the princessly sum of 11 FRNs for a few years back.

Anyway, Time to go cook.
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Mountain Prepper

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2011, 07:40:26 pm »

What if you used two stones (one rough and one medium or fine) every now and then a few strokes on the rough stone then the fine and then back to the work? Possibly finding the use for your V contraption in on that...

Yeah, I guess. I'll just have to buy some larger stones for those knives. The little one I use for my pocket knives would take forever to use. My small knives are sharp enough to shave with. :)

Quote
I have always hated the sticks (hone or sharpening) most likely because I learned the push method (not drag) on stone sets (rough, medium, fine, hone) with the use of a strop also...

I've never used the rods, and probably would have the same problem with the diamond one. It's possible a larger "V" type and a stone to finish would be a good combination. I would never actually use an electric sharpener. My aunt had one and all her knives looked like ice picks because they'd been worn down so much.


http://www.amazon.com/Winco-Combination-Sharpening-Stone/dp/B0016J5OFU

Not so expensive and is 12 inches long... great for the big kitchen knives and butcher’s tools.

It is not a natural stone - will require a heavy vegetable oil with use.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2011, 05:54:46 am »

Sorry, Mama,  didn't mean to imply that you don't know how to sharpen a knife.  I guess what I meant was, I'll pass on photo's of the stuff I prefer for sharpening my kitchen knives.  I've got one particular VERY large knife that came dull as ditchwater, and now will pare off paper thin slices of anything I care to slice up.  Diamond rods, ceramic rods, V-notch sharpeners are all rubbish IMNSHO.  I just use an ordinary fine gauge single cut mill file, and a two sided flat diamond hone that I paid the princessly sum of 11 FRNs for a few years back.

Gosh, darn this text thing. No body language. :) I was chuckling when I wrote that last. Oh well. Just because I've done it for 40 years doesn't mean I ever knew how to do it RIGHT. LOL I'm willing to learn. I'm a tactile learner and have a hard time understanding videos and things, but I can look at them.

Personally, a good stone is the best way I've found to sharpen knives, but as I said before, it is SLOW and was hoping to find a faster method to use for the butchering knives, especially during the processing. I can spend a half hour touching up the edge on my favorite knives, and longer with new ones. The V thing in the kitchen is just the fast, lazy way to keep an edge on the common knives I use all the time. I absolutely hate a dull knife.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by a "single mill file" or the "two sided flat diamond hone." Pictures or links to those would be a big help. :) They do sound promising.
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Cathryn

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Re: Sharpening knives
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2011, 10:15:11 am »

Ok, Mama.  I'll try to get those sent along soon.
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