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Author Topic: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota  (Read 1313 times)

Moonbeam

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Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« on: February 16, 2012, 09:45:52 pm »

Woo-hoo!!! Lots of prayers going towards the freedom-loving folks in North Dakota!

http://www.dailypaul.com/214334/abolishing-property-taxes-in-north-dakota

Did you know that on June 12th North Dakotans will go to the polls to vote on an initiated measure to abolish property taxes in the state!? The official web site for Measure 2 can be viewed atwww.empowerthetaxpayer.com. You will not only find information on Measure 2, but you will also see a new book written on the topic with the foreword written by Ron Paul!

We need help! The debate on this issue has heated up, and we expect it to heat up even more. Politicians in our state are scared to death at the prospect of this passing! The NEA and others have pledged millions to defeat this. The scare tactics and misinformation are running rampant. We truly have a "David vs. Goliath" situation.

If we have to pay someone to keep property, then it is NOT our propery! That is called rent! We are property renters, not property owners.

www.empowerthetaxpayer.com

Empower the Taxpayer has had to go as far as to file for an injunction against state officials because they have been illegally using their positions to spread lies. There is more on that at¬ www.empowerthetaxpayer.com.

We are in dire need of funds to run sufficient ad campaigns in an effort to properly inform the people. The opposition is heavily funded. Our effort is a grassroots effort. We know our battle is an uphill one, but feel confident that when the people listen to the message that they support the effort to ABOLISH PROPERTY TAXES!

Again, we appreciate any support you can give and pray that this will be successful and provide a standard for other states to follow!

Excerpts from forward by Ron Paul from the Book "PROPERTY TAX REVOLUTION- It's our home, not theirs. Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota"¬ http://www.empowerthetaxpayer.blogspot.com/

"The property tax is the most complex, burdensome, costly, and unfair tax imposed by the state and local governments. There can not be true liberty when the citizens are not secure in their homes. As long as the government can impose taxes on one's property and enforce that exaction by confiscation of the property, there is no real freedom or security."

"I urge the people of North Dakota to take the step to free each and every person in North Dakota from having to forever "rent their home from the government" by voting for passage of Measure 2. Such a "revolutionary" act to free citizens from this onerous and unnecessary tax will have ramifications for property owners nationwide."

"I applaud Empower the Taxpayer and all who are working to make this a reality. It is truly a vision to reclaim America"
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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 11:34:39 pm »

Yep, its one thing to have a records office to which you might pay a fee simply so they can hold onto a copy of your ownership papers in case yours are lost or destroyed.  An insurance company or even a bonding company could do either, without taxing you.  This is different than a government which not only does not insure you in the first place, but takes your stuff if you fail to "pay" them for services NOT rendered.

There are huge differences between how things might be done by market forces in lieu of El Gubierno.  :)
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bennie

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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 02:29:05 am »

One will pay in some fashion. North Dakota has a state personal income tax. Get rid of the property tax and what goes up? Property taxes in North Dakota are regulated locally. State income taxes are regulated from the capital. Don't pay that income tax and what will the state confiscate?  North Dakota would not be entertaining the idea of no property tax if not for them raking it in with their oil boom income taxes. North Dakota would love to do away with property taxes so then the locals would have to beg for their pittance up at the capital.
I live in a no income tax state....our property taxes are high. It is all the same.
One way or the other your shit gets stolen. Freedom Shmeedom Indeedum.
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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 06:44:10 am »

Baby steps.  :)  Evil won its incredible market share of the mindspace the same way, so it will have to be won back in baby steps.  And yes, that windfall from that huge oil field is likely to do away with a lot of the taxation at local levels.  But baby steps.  Or call it salami slicing.  Its worked for the Hegelian Dialectic scumbags quite well.  Can't hurt to try it the other way around, can it?
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 08:13:22 am »

It's actually quite amazing that this was even proposed. ND is quite socialist, far as I've been able to determine. More power to them!
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Grypho

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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 10:14:23 pm »

One will pay in some fashion. North Dakota has a state personal income tax. Get rid of the property tax and what goes up? Property taxes in North Dakota are regulated locally.  State income taxes are regulated from the capital.

That's actually incorrect. Local taxes are only collected locally, but they are regulated and controlled by the state every step of the way, as the state dictates what mill rates to apply, and to what. In other words, how much to collect and what to spend it on.  The only thing local about their property tax is the source of the tax.

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Don't pay that income tax and what will the state confiscate? 

Not the homes, for failure to pay rent to government (the ultimate owner, in effect), that's for sure.  Whatever the state levies in other taxes, it will at least be based on someone's ability to pay, and not the value of property you already own, but must still pay rent on.  If your income goes down, so does your income tax. If you buy less goods, your sales tax goes down. The property tax is the only tax that is not concerned with someone's ability to pay, but only the "assessed" value of what someone owns - regardless of whether or not it is paid for, or whether or not they have any means to pay it.

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North Dakota would not be entertaining the idea of no property tax if not for them raking it in with their oil boom income taxes. North Dakota would love to do away with property taxes so then the locals would have to beg for their pittance up at the capital.

That is not new, as they already do that. 70% of all local funding comes from the state anyway. The state has a $1.8 billion surplus, but not just from oil revenue, but also from myriad other tax revenue channels, from gambling, alcohol, tobacco, you name it.  That surplus doesn't ever go toward local funding - most of that surplus is routinely spent on pork, and the local governments are left to make up their shortfalls through property taxes that are dictated and controlled by the state legislature.

Quote
I live in a no income tax state....our property taxes are high. It is all the same.
One way or the other your shit gets stolen. Freedom Shmeedom Indeedum.

True enough - if they can't get it one way, they will get it another. The difference, if Measure 2 passes:  North Dakota will be the ONLY state where it is not against the law to be poor, or to fall on hard times, and still own property.   At the very least, they can't take that from you - by evicting you for failure to pay rent on what you already supposedly own, but in reality do not.   Likewise, when you go to Home Depot and buy a bunch of studs, drywall, nails, paint, etc., -- the government won't have any basis to lay claim to that, and to charge you later rent for everything you bought IN ADDITION to the sales tax you're already paying.  As it is now, you must pay perpetual rent on any improvements you pay for and make to your property. That may come to an end in June, but only for North Dakotans. 

I'd call that all a step in the right direction! If you're going to abolish any one tax, regardless what happens to the others, let it be the property tax - the most hated tax of all, and for very good reasons. 

« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 10:21:23 pm by Grypho »
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0point

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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 12:11:10 am »


Here's a good resource for a state-by-state comparison of overall tax burden including income tax, sales tax, property tax and others.

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Many people planning to retire use the presence or absence of a state income tax as a litmus test for a retirement destination. This is a serious miscalculation since higher sales and property taxes can more than offset the lack of a state income tax. The lack of a state income tax doesn’t necessarily ensure a low total tax burden.

States raise revenue in many ways including sales taxes, excise taxes, license taxes, income taxes, intangible taxes, property taxes, estate taxes and inheritance taxes. Depending on where you live, you may end up paying all of them or just a few.

This section of our Web site provides you with information on state income taxes, sales and fuel taxes, taxes on retirement income, property taxes and inheritance and estate taxes. as well as sales and fuel taxes. It is intended to give you some insight into which states may offer a lower cost of living. To check out the state where you want to retire, just select from the state menu above.

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bennie

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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 01:49:12 am »

gawly jee willikers...thanks, Grypho! I must be such a goober!

edited to say: sorry for being a kinda wise ass. kinda. i understand how taxes are regulated and controlled within the state.

Ever tried to get your income taxes lowered. I have (arkansas) and it was not an easy process, and I did not succeed.

However, twice I tried and succeeded when getting my property taxes lowered (in Texas...a property tax state and no income taxes). It was a relatively easy process that required very little of my time and effort. Once I simply had to get a real estate agent to call the county appraisal district, and the other time I walked into the county appraisal district office and pleasantly stated I had a bone to pick. Both times they were decent and we came to an understanding/agreement that were in my favor big time.

I'll take property tax state over an income tax state anytime. I would never again live in a state that has both. Those county appraisal district people are locally elected and have to be neighbors to those people they are putting the screwing to.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 04:19:08 am by bennie »
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hangman

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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 01:27:08 pm »

North Dakota, with the only state owned bank in the nation, is doing well financially in troubling times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/16/bank-of-north-dakotasocia_n_463522.html

(AP) The Bank of North Dakota - the nation's only state-owned bank - might seem to be a relic.

But now officials in other states are wondering if it is helping North Dakota sail through the national recession.

Gubernatorial candidates in Florida and Oregon and a Washington state legislator are advocating the creation of state-owned banks in those states. A report prepared for a Vermont House committee last month said the idea had "considerable merit." Liberal filmmaker Michael Moore promotes the bank on his Web site./SNIP
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0point

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Re: Abolishing Property Taxes in North Dakota
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 03:56:28 pm »

North Dakota, with the only state owned bank in the nation, is doing well financially in troubling times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/16/bank-of-north-dakotasocia_n_463522.html

(AP) The Bank of North Dakota - the nation's only state-owned bank - might seem to be a relic.

But now officials in other states are wondering if it is helping North Dakota sail through the national recession.

Gubernatorial candidates in Florida and Oregon and a Washington state legislator are advocating the creation of state-owned banks in those states. A report prepared for a Vermont House committee last month said the idea had "considerable merit." Liberal filmmaker Michael Moore promotes the bank on his Web site./SNIP

???   I got a quite different message from the article you linked.  Snips from the same article:

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"...a lot of states that are in trouble, and they're tying the Bank of North Dakota together with this economic success that we're having right now," said the bank's president, Eric Hardmeyer.

...North Dakota has the nation's lowest unemployment rate at 4.4 percent, soaring oil production and a robust state budget surplus - but Hardmeyer says the bank isn't responsible for the prosperity.

"We are a catalyst, perhaps, or maybe a part of it," he said. "To put this at our feet is flattering, but it frankly isn't true."

I believe North Dakota's improved economy has everything to do with the Bakken reservoir, combined with technological advances in directional drilling and hydraulic fracturing.

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"Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others."

"The tragedy of modern war is that the young men die fighting each other - instead of their real enemies back home in the capitals."
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