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Author Topic: Parenting question  (Read 21862 times)

knobster

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Parenting question
« on: September 04, 2012, 06:04:43 am »

I wasn't sure where to put this post but figured 'Home Schooling' would at least draw all parents who currently have little ones roaming their halls.

For the past few months we've been battling with our children about appreciating what they have.  It seems all too often they are never satisfied.  We could drop the coolest gizmo in the world in their lap and five minutes later they would ask for the next thing.  I suppose it is human nature to always want the next thing (yup, that's me!) but how to drive the point home that one should be thankful for what they have?  By the way, the ages are 8, 6, and 4.  So digging ditches with spoons and then showing up an hour later with a shovel may not be the best plan...
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 06:55:23 am »

In my experience, children learn to really appreciate what they have when they don't have much. That, of course, also depends on the attitude of their parents and the other adults around them. If the adults always want and insist on the latest gizmo, so will the children. If the adults are grateful - and both speak and demonstrate that gratitude - for what they have, then the children will learn that too.

Of course it is terribly difficult if those children go to gov. school and learn ingratitude from all the other children, so that has to be dealt with. And if they have been exposed to that for very long, you've got your work cut out for you indeed. Children like this often don't even know what they truly want, and have little way to discover the value of things - which is one reason for the constant battle to have more and new stuff...

In the end, people generally value most what they have worked and saved for. If your children have an opportunity to do meaningful work, they will appreciate more what it takes to get things, and will learn to distinguish "want" from "need." If the things they think they want are simply dropped into their hands, without any real need to work and save, they will never truly appreciate much of anything.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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mutti

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2012, 07:02:18 am »

That's a very hard one, but these are great ages to address the situation.

The first thing we had to determine was where the "stuff" was coming from and if you are the one enabling the behavior. In our case we had the first GrandChildren, Great-GrandChildren, Nieces, GodChildren, etc. Any holiday was a reason to celebrate their existence (read=give stuff). Of course, we also contributed to the minions "collecting" nature through our own actions of wanting more stuff for ... preparing or otherwise. Also, I'll mention it again - I'm a "clutter" person which means I don't mind books sideways on the shelves and stuff on the counters.

Next we addressed the "incoming stuff". We talked to those people and explained how thankful we were for the gifts (latest noisy toy, book, clothes, etc.). Then we had an honest discussion that we were trying to teach the children the difference between "need" and "want" just as they had taught their children and could they please help us with this? By engaging them, we reduced the flow of arriving "stuff". 

We also had to acknowledge that we were contributing by finding "sales" or "great deals" on items they really didn't need even if they were practical items. By trying to be "good parents" and make sure they had "everything" - we were diluting their appreciation pool.

We required our children from the time they could hold a crayon to write or draw a "Thank You" note whenever they received something - even from one another. It had to include specific mention of the gift - not just a "toss off" note. It was also mailed, not hand delivered. Why? Because I found that by having to actually focus on the item and find what about it they liked - they then remembered receiving it.

The last year we ran from home to home for Christmas was in 2003. I found a still sealed in plastic expensive Lego toy  2 months later I think, that we hadn't even played with because we were so busy going around we forgot it. . We contributed to the problem of "stuff-ism" by trying to give "the newest widget" to people/children instead of thinking through the meaning of each item. Now we try to talk about what we think so-an-so can use, will they enjoy it, is there any other need that we can help with - all year round. We don't focus our giving to a set holiday period, because there is need all year long. By giving without expectation of return (a big lesson for us all) they seem to be picking up the concept of value - both time and material stuff.

Do they have room to put everything away neatly? Can they even find their "stuff" to play/appreciate it? Is it an issue of picking up after themselves or having nowhere to put items? Our answer was a combination of all of the above.

For the too much stuff-ism, we determined if they played with it, had out grown it, didn't want it (Children get items they don't want - they have to be taught it is okay to be thankful for the gift and then pass it on to someone who will appreciate it - sort of a kid regifting kind of thing) or just didn't want to get off their tushes and take care of the issue. Until they were 6, my job was to encourage and help pick up. After that, if they made the decision not to put something away they would get one reminder.

Then unless it is an heirloom - if they do not immediately pick it up - it's gone.

Less "stuff" helps them find what they are looking for (think Tab Clearing for Big People). Are they still ungrateful little snots some days? Yep. I am too. Parenting is a process and I back slide periodically. But I love them enough to keep working on it.
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knobster

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 10:24:19 am »

<snip>
Just my 2 cents worth.

Our kids don't go to gov't school but they are surrounded by children that do.  On thinking about this I realized that most of those kids do indeed have the latest 'everything'.  One boy who is barely 5 has his own iPod.  Even I don't have an iPod!  It is a daily battle of 'so and so has a fill in the latest electronic gizmo so why can't I?'  We have the chore list and my son does buy all of his own Pokemon cards but still the battle rages.  It is time to evaluate my own attitude towards stuff and see if my wife and I contribute to this attitude.  Thanks for the two cents ML!
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knobster

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 10:30:56 am »

<snip>
lots of cool advice

Aah clutter, it's freakin' everywhere!!!

Yes, my parents love sending tons of stuff every couple of months.  I should remind my folks that we don't need more. 

My wife is very adament about thank-you notes.  I fail miserably in that regard so perhaps I should step up my game and let my children bear witness. 

My mom always picked up after us and I inherited that bug.  I typically scurry after the kids and pick up the clutter but am trying to back off a bit.  Sigh... sounds like I have a lot of work to do.  This parenting thing is tough!

Thanks Mutti!
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mutti

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 10:41:00 am »

My mom always picked up after us and I inherited that bug.  I typically scurry after the kids and pick up the clutter but am trying to back off a bit.  Sigh... sounds like I have a lot of work to do.  This parenting thing is tough!
Thanks Mutti!

You are most welcome. I used to "pick up after everyone" also even though I didn't have that role model. I figured June Cleaver had cute kids and a happy family, so I should as well. Until it led (and still does in some respect) to conditioning the Minions that if they "forgot" a chore - Mom would be there to remind them. Ouch for me - it was like doing all of the chores myself after I chased them all down plus my own responsibilities. That gets very tiring after a while.

I'm so inspired by all the work you and your wife are putting into your Children!

***edited because I still cannot spell. "you Children" seemed to lump Knobster into the conversation - sorry.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 10:51:07 am by mutti »
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“Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.”  Jefferson

"The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract." Heinlein

knobster

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2012, 10:46:46 am »

I'm so inspired by all the work you and your wife are putting into you Children!

 :laugh:
Well, my wife surely.  I'm just trying to keep my head above water!
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 11:05:44 am »

This parenting thing is tough!

You can say THAT again. :)

In a nutshell...

We teach far more by example than by what we say.
To make mistakes is totally human, and the drive for excellence is a necessary survival trait... the balance can get very interesting. Just remember that it takes a lot of bad judgment to learn good judgment. As long as we survive it, mistakes can make us stronger if we learn from them. But children can't gain the life experience to form good judgment if they're not required to strive for it and taught how to learn from those mistakes.

And again, that process is demonstrated by how we handle our own mistakes. Never hide those from children. :) Remember that they see and understand far more than we usually give them credit for anyway. LOL

I'm glad your children are not in gov. "school." And I can understand the problems with their peers who are. I laugh when people tell me that the big problem with homeschooling is the "lack of socialization" with other children. What a silly idea. You can't keep children from socializing, and the gov. indoctrination camps are the very worst places they can do so.

Hang in there. It sounds as if you have the right idea and a supportive spouse. That helps so much! My first husband contradicted me in every way possible, simply for spite. Our sons were pretty confused by the time we divorced... but they turned out fine. Don't worry so much... love will find a way. :)
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EwB

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 01:41:26 pm »

We have had the run on gifts and junk exchanged during the holidays, it is mostly thoughtful and done out of kindness and love.  But, usually within days, the stuff breaks, the batteries die, parts are lost, and it turns into really junk not worthy of being a boat anchor.  My in-laws mean well ( I think ) but this cycle repeats every year.
The wife and I don't go for the gadgets and geegaws so much (but that telescope the we got the kids one year was really cool in their eyes).

If my kids want to earn a gadget working, then I feel that is OK.  My eldest daughters bought their first iPods cleaning houses this year.  They are 16 and 19.  No cell phones either.  They don't want the expense.

My kids have repeatedly stated that the most memorable holiday season that they have ever had, was the one where we went as a family on a trip to somewhere together instead of the gift thing.  I think we are going to do that this year as well.

EwB

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MamaLiberty

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 02:26:03 pm »

A true story from my childhood. :)

My Perfect Christmas
By Susan Callaway, Editor

November 24, 2008

Thanksgiving and Christmas are so interwoven for me that I couldn't wait to share this true story of my life. This Christmas experience is a big part of the reason I grew up knowing just how much I have to be thankful for each and every day.

1950 was a hard year. My father died and my mother was left with two small children. She was a "housewife" and had no particular marketable skills. She also didn't have any family who could help her much. She was a recovering alcoholic and suffered from severe depression. Not a pretty picture.

This, of course, was long before the social workers, welfare, food stamps, WIC, or any of the alphabet soup government offices and "programs." All she had was her faith in God and her children, the few friends who stood with her, and the understanding that it was her responsibility to raise her children and get on with life the best she could.

So, the winter of 1950 found us all staying with a friend's family in a small Southern California desert town. Not the rich and beautiful part, but the dirt road, snowed in, wood stove outback of the Morongo Valley. There was no telephone or reliable transportation.

I was only four years old, so I have no idea why Mother moved there with no jobs available within fifty miles, any direction. The people we stayed with were living on a small pension and he was dying of lung cancer. Mother had $138. a month in Social Security Survivor's benefit. Everybody had big troubles, make no mistake.

Some of this I remember myself, and much is remembered because we talked about this period so often, but I didn't really understand any of it at the time, of course. I knew we were cold much of the time and seldom had enough to eat, but I don't feel "damaged" or "traumatized" by any of it. Much the opposite is true. I know what it is to be cold, hungry and homeless. I remember that sometimes and thank God for all my blessings. We had each other and lots of love. We didn't know poverty was supposed to scar us for life.

Christmas Eve came and we put up what decorations we had. (People didn't ordinarily start to decorate for Christmas after Thanksgiving dinner in those days.) We had a branch of creosote bush for a "tree," and there was one, small, handmade gift for each child under it. Soon wonderful smells came from the kitchen, and when we gathered for supper we were all surprised to learn that the only thing on the table was a large bowl of bread pudding.

In later years my mother often told us how she and Virginia mixed together the last remaining bread, milk, eggs and sugar with a few raisins and some cinnamon. They put it into the oven with a prayer, and we said our usual prayer of thanks before we ate it. Only the adults knew that those were the last morsels of food left in the house and that none of them had any idea when or how they would be able to get anything else until the next pension check came in on the first. I can only imagine their agony - and their faith.

Christmas morning broke clear and very cold. The snow wasn't deep, but it stretched unbroken for many miles in every direction. We certainly didn't anticipate company, but up the road came the county snowplow with a lone blue car behind it. The county never plowed the road by our house, so it was a mystery until the car pulled into our driveway.

Out popped Virginia's mother! She had shamed the plowman into making a path for her, and he helped her unload boxes of groceries and other things. The children were too busy to notice, however, because we each had a wonderful felt stocking full of nuts, candy and a few small toys. Then, at the very bottom in the toe, was a huge shining orange! Those were worth their weight in gold then and had been very rare in our lives to that point. I can't begin to tell you what it meant to us as we jealously watched our orange peeled and then savored each drop of the golden fruit.

From that date, Christmas has been a most blessed day. Mother went on to work hard, earning a living for her family. She made sure, by what magic I'll never know, to have at least one big and beautiful orange in our stockings each year from then on. She told us it was to remind us of the past so that we would appreciate our lives and all the blessings we had. She made sure we never forgot to plan our Holy Day with others in mind.

There was always another place at our table, a few warm clothes to "spare," a bed on the couch, or just the human touch of hugs and clasped hands for someone in need. She remained active in AA, and sponsored many a man and woman to health and life. Nobody ever left our home hungry, unclothed, uncomforted or unloved unless they wanted it that way.

I have spent my adult life trying to walk in that path. No Christmas passes without oranges, though it's been years since I made bread pudding. I thank God there was no welfare, food stamps, etc. I would never have had the privilege of that "perfect Christmas."

God bless and keep you all.
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EwB

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 12:04:50 pm »

Even today, if I close my eyes sitting in a cool room, scented with orange, cinnamon, and evergreen, I find myself at my granny's the week of Christmas. 

I miss that old house and that incredible lady.

EwB
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 12:23:00 pm »

I never had the privilege of knowing any of my grandparents. All were dead before I was born... I had to start from scratch with my mother, God rest her. :)
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knobster

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2012, 12:34:58 pm »

Wonderful story ML!  I have never experienced such hardships but I've heard from many people how such things change you for the better.
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Moonbeam

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 02:28:09 pm »

KNOBSTER - I understand your concern as I have some of the same ones. Here are some suggestions:

- When we do get birthday/Christmas gifts, we make every attempt to not take off the tags/open the boxes of items the kids don't need/we don't want them to have. And we try to immediately whisk the item away - the whole out of sight, out of mind thing. My kid's are only four so that might not work as well for your ages. The point is, if we can keep the item intact that makes for better re-sell. We take the items the kids don't need/we don't want them to have, we sell them, then use the funds to buy precious metals. There are various ways to sell: local consignment sales, eBay, and garage sales for example. The great thing about kid's stuff is that there is ALWAYS a buyer. I have done all three examples and I cannot say that there is one method that is wholly better than the others. It depends on the effort you're willing to invest and how much financial return you want. PM if you want some tips about selling. Also, if you don't remove the tags/open the boxes you can return the item to the store then pick out something you want them to have.

- Speaking of selling, when the kids are preoccupied I will go to their rooms and play area and collect some items I haven't seen them play with in awhile. Or I collect items that annoy me *wink* I keep it out of sight for a few days/weeks to see if they notice (most of the time they don't). This just confirms that they have stuff they don't need/want and I put it away for future selling. I have been busted removing toys and when they start to protest I just tell them that I am taking away their baby toys so they can have "big kid" toys. Again, this works for me because my kids are four. YMMV.

- Have your kids pick out some toys to give to charity. However, don't let them just put stuff in a box. Have them go with you to the organization to drop off the items. Better still, have them involved first-hand so they can see the impact their giving has. When I was a very young girl, my Mom took me with her to some very poor areas (no security concerns) so she could deliver food, clothing and other items. It really impacted me. The goal is to get the focus outward instead of inward. Helping others and doing what's right is where I believe we get our self-esteem from. Whereas "the world" tells we get it by focusing on ourselves.

- You can also have your kids pick out things that they want to sell. Tell them that any money raised from the sale will go towards that thing ("_____") they've been wanting; or something for the entire family to enjoy; or towards a charity they want to contribute to.

- If I remember and understand correctly, you might be able to approach your side of the family with the request to buy your kids precious metals as in investment - as opposed to investing in say a college education. As for your SHW's side, that wouldn't probably fly. Instead, encourage them to give money (I know, uber tacky - but, you come up with the *right* dialogue) so you can invest the "kid's future." Which of course, is precious metals.

- Amazon has a wish list that you can make public (that is, it can only be seen by those whom you designate). We did this for the grandparents to help guide them. I have begun to add more items that I believe will help me with their education. Perhaps your SHW needs items for homeschooling that others can purchase? Oh, and interesting enough, some "prepping" items can easily fit into the "education" category!

- This past year we were asked not to get any toys for one of my nieces. As her parents said, "She likes the idea of toys, but she just doesn't play with them." We were asked to get her an Amazon gift card so she could download books for her Kindle. Not suggesting that you should get your Little Ones Kindles. However, you could ask for gift cards for the local bookstore. And remember, you don't have to get them books or at least use up all the money getting them books. Surely there are books you want, eh?

We do what we can to encourage others to give money/gift cards. For us, we have no qualms taking cash/checks/gift cards that are meant for the kids to purchase "prepping" items. After all, when you prep you are investing in your kid's future :)

Hope this helps. Thanks for letting me share my two cents!

I wasn't sure where to put this post but figured 'Home Schooling' would at least draw all parents who currently have little ones roaming their halls.

On a side note: Actually, I think it might behoove us to have a "parenting" or "family" related section somewhere...
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Parenting question
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 03:11:52 pm »

On a side note: Actually, I think it might behoove us to have a "parenting" or "family" related section somewhere...

Your wish is my command. :)
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