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Author Topic: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine  (Read 9900 times)

Bill St. Clair

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2005, 04:29:28 pm »

OK, 'Rat. Thanks for the correction.

-Bill
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Edge

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2005, 10:23:42 pm »

Quote
While a neat idea, I'm not sure that I agree. 

What you end up with is two relatively short range weapons.  Pistol cartridges coming out of carbines don't gain very much in comparison to say an SKS.  This is why so many police departments are going to AR-15/M-4 type weapons--10 mm at 200 fps more is still a pistol cartridge at 200 fps more, for the weight, you could have something that has a lot more range and punch. 

Your pistol should be used to get you to a rifle and then the real work can begin. 

ultralongrunner
While I agree with your point, I think the difference between should and do is pretty significant. People should use a pistol to get them out to rifle range. Most people however, myself included, tend to practice at ranges they are confrortable with. So we get better and better at shorter and shorter ranges. (For the record: I make a point to get out of my comfort zone often) The result is that most who carry a pistol or who rely on it for home defense are nominally accurate to what, 5-10 yards? After that, who knows what is going to happen? Stick a pistol caliber carbine in that same person, and they become very accurate to 50-75 yards. And a lot quicker. My house is not all that big, but even my house has a few areas where a 30 foot shot could be required. While I'd just as well have a 223, I tend to like the pistol caliber carbines.
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Bear2

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2005, 10:57:38 am »

I found the Shooting Times issue and double checked the info.

My mistake: the Ruger pistol/carbine combinations that share magazines are available
in .40 S&W and 9mm. I don't know where I got the idea that they are available in 10mm too.

The .40 S&W Ruger semi-auto carbine is the PC4. The PC9 is the 9mm version.

Bear
 
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ZooT_aLLures

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2005, 11:58:03 am »

I'm a hunter......and while I'll get lambasted over this, IMO for hunting "big game"....I consider both pistols and pistol caliber carbines to be a bow with a trigger......
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

TacticalMan

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2005, 01:03:57 pm »

If I may be so bold as a new poster, I would like to share a couple thoughts on this issue.

If your sole concern is home defense, I have no problem with the idea of pistol calibers, but I am much more concerned with my neighborhood, city, county, state, and country.

I have chosen my arms based on availability of ammo in all situations, thus I have chosen my arms around NATO calibers. Since our military carries 9mm, .223 or 5.56 if you prefer, and .308, I have both semi-automatic rifles in .223 & 308. Scoped rifles in bolt action .223 & .308. and handguns in 9mm. I almost forgot my tactical shotgun in 12 ga.

As we are all limited to what we can reasonably carry, it makes a battlefield reload possible regardless of the enemies involved. :ph34r:  
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ZooT_aLLures

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2005, 11:35:06 pm »

Tactical Man,

You make a very interesting point, yet one must admit that if indeed one is going to reload using "captured" ammo, wouldn't make almost as much sense to "re-rifle" also using captured gear?
After all.....I'd be dipped in shit and rolled in cracker crumbs before I've leave a corpses M-14 laying on the ground and walk away bearing only my trusty SKS  :lol:  
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

Desertrat

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2005, 11:10:39 am »

For sure nuthin' wrong with practical choices, Tac.  

ZooT, I guess it's how far ya gotta walk.  Since I don't plan on getting too far from my house, I'll carry both. :D

'Rat

 
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TacticalMan

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2005, 12:51:31 pm »

Quote
Tactical Man,

You make a very interesting point, yet one must admit that if indeed one is going to reload using "captured" ammo, wouldn't make almost as much sense to "re-rifle" also using captured gear?
After all.....I'd be dipped in shit and rolled in cracker crumbs before I've leave a corpses M-14 laying on the ground and walk away bearing only my trusty SKS  :lol:
Good point!

 My point was based upon existing stock piles and the ability to serve with our military or law enforcement if invaded, or the ability to pick up what was needed along the way.

Your point also addresses the possible necessity of picking up what ever is available. If I was isolated and without NATO ammo, I too would use what was available regardless of the nation of origin.

Good thinking!
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rick

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2005, 04:16:43 am »

Don't forget the T/C Encore in .45-70. In a shoulder holster it gives a lasting impression - BEFORE you have to present it...
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rick

I bear no hate against a living thing I just love my freedom all above the King

user

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Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2005, 11:36:02 pm »

I"m not lugging around a longarm that can't WAY outperfom my pistol.  If it's chambered for a pistol rd, it can't do that.  The AR-15 in 223, with a 1 lb .22lr conversion unit is by far the most versatile longarm extant.  The caliber conversion takes just  20 seconds. and the .22 kit's plastic case fits in the thigh pocket of your cammies.  The scoped  223 offers 2-3x the effective range of a 10mm carbine.
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Rawles

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Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2007, 10:51:35 pm »

I decided to reanimate this ancient thread, because I just posted the following to SurvivalBlog:  http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/02/letter_re_one_common_caliber_f.html

Your comments, folks?  Did I over state my case?  Did I miss any practical possibilities?

Thanks,

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velojym

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Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2007, 11:30:20 pm »

Hmm... how about a .30-06 revolver?

By the way, I wasn't aware that anyone was manufacturing firearms which use clips anymore.
Unless I'm mistaken, most of the semiautos are using detachable magazines.
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da gooch

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Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2007, 11:59:28 pm »

I decided to reanimate this ancient thread, because I just posted the following to SurvivalBlog:  http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/02/letter_re_one_common_caliber_f.html

Your comments, folks?  Did I over state my case?  Did I miss any practical possibilities?

Thanks,



 "Did I miss any practical possibilities?"

Not that I could see.
I used to harbor dreams of a "single cartridge" store pile until I realized that the two different arms NEED to be able to do different jobs. The compromise hurts Both jobs and only saves money on one level.
I have settled on 30-30 for long, 30 carb for short intense and 45 acp for up close and personal.
That said, I fully intend to "re-rifle" and "battlefield reload" in the event it comes to that.

[One of my Pet Peeves in movies about running gun battles is the "hero" that walks right over a "battlefield reload" and doesn't even appropriate even one clip from mr bad guy. Sheesh Hollywood grrr]

Tactical Man,

You make a very interesting point, yet one must admit that if indeed one is going to reload using "captured" ammo, wouldn't make almost as much sense to "re-rifle" also using captured gear?
After all.....I'd be dipped in shit and rolled in cracker crumbs before I've leave a corpses M-14 laying on the ground and walk away bearing only my trusty SKS  :lol: 

 
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Habu

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Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2007, 12:05:51 am »

Realistically, I don't think you missed anything on the topic of a single carbine/handgun cartridge.  Given my 'druthers I might argue for retaining pistol-cartridge carbines just because they're so dang handy.  Lugging around an FAL in addition to a handgun while doing farm chores can get inconvenient; as the days and weeks go on people have a habit of working farther and farther from the rifle.  Being more convenient, a carbine might be closer to hand.

Even if that arguement is accepted, at best the carbines should probably be a 4th- or 5th-level purchase, after rifles/handguns/22s/shotguns.
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islandphish

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Re: Same cartridge for pistol and carbine
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2007, 02:05:20 am »

Here's an argumet I'm hearing.

"The Special Forces use them."

Just how true is that?
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