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Author Topic: Questioning my Affiliation  (Read 4982 times)

Corpsman

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Questioning my Affiliation
« on: April 21, 2013, 01:46:59 pm »

Sam Kerodin posed a question that got me thinking; in reference to the Enforcers of the State's Laws participating in the Greater Boston Lockdown: "How many of them are Oath Keepers?"

Great question! My response: NONE OF THEM! If any of them are members of the organization, then they are Oath Keepers in name only. And if any of them are outed as such, then why would I want to belong to an organization that harbors such hypocrites? If they are outed as such will they be drummed out? If not then you can count me out.

It amazes me how verbal some of these people are when it comes to denying that they will confiscate our guns. But they having no issue committing all sorts of other anti-Constitutional atrocities. They have no issue entering the homes of innocent civilians and forcibly removing them at gunpoint. They have no issue smashing video cameras of citizens filming them. They have no issue forcing peaceful protesters into "free speech zones" so their voice is not heard. They have no problem setting up checkpoints to detain and harass civilians under the guise of looking for drunk drivers or checking seat belts. The list of "abuses and usurpations" goes on and on.

If you will not support and defend the Constitution in it's entirety then why should I have any faith that you will not take my guns?

If you are an Oath Keeper and participated in the Greater Boston Lockdown then I will call you out as a hypocrite and a liar fit for tar and feathers. You missed THE golden opportunity to prove yourself and you FAILED!
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Redce77

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 08:35:21 am »

Right on Brother SF ! Just following orders is not what an oathkeeper represents , I am not a member of the organization , I understand the belief and having been a US Marine , Law Enforcement Officer , I fully believe in the principals ! The part for many of these is they are in fact Oathkeepers by name only , they paid the $25 (or whatever it is) fly the decal on there car , tell people how they'll protect there rights . Yet when duty calls they will follow orders (there defense), I would lose my job ,I have a family that relies on me to bring home the bacon ! Think what will happen , the Boston situation was a precurser to and actual Homeland Security event . They dont care about the constitution or the rights of the people ,they will follow orders
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Silver

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 09:14:48 am »

Sometimes I hate being proved right.

October 26, 2009
Time for the Oathkeepers to expand

October 27, 2009
Time for the Oathkeepers to expand

and
October 28, 2009
re:Time for the Oathkeepers to expand

Peace,

Silver
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ARC308

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2013, 08:16:36 am »

Right on Brother SF ! Just following orders is not what an oathkeeper represents , I am not a member of the organization , I understand the belief and having been a US Marine , Law Enforcement Officer , I fully believe in the principals ! The part for many of these is they are in fact Oathkeepers by name only , they paid the $25 (or whatever it is) fly the decal on there car , tell people how they'll protect there rights . Yet when duty calls they will follow orders (there defense), I would lose my job ,I have a family that relies on me to bring home the bacon ! Think what will happen , the Boston situation was a precurser to and actual Homeland Security event . They dont care about the constitution or the rights of the people ,they will follow orders

I was also in the U.S. Marines and I was a Combat MP. I will keep my oath I made when I joined but as far as joining the oathkeepers organization, I won't. I am sure there are several in that organization that pretend they will honor the oath they made but when it comes too brass tacks they will look the other way.

Most likely there were a lot of "self proclaimed" oathkeepers in on the Boston lock down but they twisted their ideas to seem they were honoring it by protecting the public, instead of detaining them in their own homes.

I will guarantee that was the first words spoken during the mission briefing "We have to protect the public". That has always been said for many reasons and they will use that phrase to commit unjustifiable acts, even while they march the public into FEMA detention camps.

Anymore now these days very few actually take our oath too heart and stand by it. The same goes for pledging allegiance to our flag. It is just considered as water under a bridge for many of them. 
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Redce77

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2013, 09:12:19 am »

right again , sadly theres plenty of people who horde guns and ammo and food and other things, but when it comes down to the government wanting this stuff they will fold , I have found it awefully hard to "connect" with people who feel the same way I do ! I wholeheartedly believe in the constitution , it was made for ,fighting for , theres no difference today , I wont fight for the president ,the congress , I will for the people , but if the people have become puppy dogs to the machine ,I will have to disappear because I just dont see enough people that I trully believe would fight !

I mostly like to hang out with Marines and Corpsman ,if theres a battle plan or not in front of us , we know what to do ,im not just talking IN BATTLE ,Im talking in life in general!

I dont see anyone that talks about being a state defense force or militia as being serious , if the feds find out your serious ,you are immediately labled a terrorist threat and Morris Dees and his ignorant law center posts negativity about you ! Wanna join a Militia , make it and underground thing , practice "drop of the hat" situations if you dont know what that means ,you dont have what it takes to run with me!
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 02:18:00 pm »

Most likely there were a lot of "self proclaimed" oathkeepers in on the Boston lock down but they twisted their ideas to seem they were honoring it by protecting the public, instead of detaining them in their own homes.

It's obvious that there weren't any Oath Keepers among the JBTs that locked down Boston.  There was nothing but outrage about it on our national forums.  It should not be surprising that OK is not reaching cops in any of our major urban areas with their anti-gun culture, liberal statist politics, and corrupt police departments.

Frankly, with the exception of rural police who grew up with gun culture and a more conservative idea of patriotism, I doubt we will reach that many police.  Cops point their guns at citizens all the time.  "We" are already the "enemy" and always have been for cops.

NOT so for military where our impact is MUCH greater.  We will not give up trying to influence the future battle space by pre-emptively removing some of their minions by reminding them of their oath and vaccinating their conscience against future acts of tyranny.

Many people are not satisfied with our mission of educational outreach.  They expect us all to jump up and DO something.  There are other groups preparing to DO stuff, and Oath Keepers are allowed and encouraged to be involved with those other groups.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

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ARC308

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 08:00:35 pm »

right again , sadly theres plenty of people who horde guns and ammo and food and other things, but when it comes down to the government wanting this stuff they will fold , I have found it awefully hard to "connect" with people who feel the same way I do ! I wholeheartedly believe in the constitution , it was made for ,fighting for , theres no difference today , I wont fight for the president ,the congress , I will for the people , but if the people have become puppy dogs to the machine ,I will have to disappear because I just dont see enough people that I trully believe would fight !

I mostly like to hang out with Marines and Corpsman ,if theres a battle plan or not in front of us , we know what to do ,im not just talking IN BATTLE ,Im talking in life in general!

I dont see anyone that talks about being a state defense force or militia as being serious , if the feds find out your serious ,you are immediately labled a terrorist threat and Morris Dees and his ignorant law center posts negativity about you ! Wanna join a Militia , make it and underground thing , practice "drop of the hat" situations if you dont know what that means ,you dont have what it takes to run with me!

I have done a lot of recon around my area and what militias are out there are ill prepared. I talked to one leader I met with and he had no ammo and kept hinting that point too me. There are several that will not support our constitution but have a completely different one. I have even bumped into militias that are Muslim sympathizers. I came to the conclusion of going solo until I could find other prior military or civilians that actually have their act together.

There is state sanctioned militias here in the south but the one here in Tennessee are Muslim sympathizers! I got into a pissing contest with one of their captains and a lieutenant. Tennessee Volunteer Militia are Muslim and work for DHS.

Redce77,  I feel the same way. I can't connect with people that have the same plans and thoughts as I do. I don't know if it is my military sense or they are just in a different book all together (if you get my meaning).  Most seem single tracked and on a narrow thought process.

I actually had a civilian guy get into a argument with me saying that him, his dog and armed with a shotgun could take me out if I were working him in sniper mode. I'm sorry but I can range in at 850 yards, with my ghillie suit on. At even 500 yards his dog would not know I was there and he would never hear it coming and definitely never see me. This is some of the narrow minded bull people have.

Klapton,

Just how sure are you. Can You honestly trust your life and your families lives with every organization member? I know I could with military vets with my same mind set whether they are Army, Navy, National Guard or other fellow Marines. I have been around a lot of civilian police and There are many of them that would say one thing and do the other. I have been there and seen it with my own eyes! That is not the case with honorable military that would take a bullet for a friend and put their life on the line for our country and the U.S. Constitution.

I will honor my oath I made.

       
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 07:23:42 am »

Klapton,

Just how sure are you. Can You honestly trust your life and your families lives with every organization member? I know I could with military vets with my same mind set whether they are Army, Navy, National Guard or other fellow Marines. I have been around a lot of civilian police and There are many of them that would say one thing and do the other. I have been there and seen it with my own eyes! That is not the case with honorable military that would take a bullet for a friend and put their life on the line for our country and the U.S. Constitution.

I will honor my oath I made.


For the sake of our outreach, and the tiny hope we might reach some, I refrain from speaking my whole mind about cops on oath keeper pages.  There are several HUGE differences between military vs. LEO that are worth noting:

*  "Officer safety" is pounded into them from the academy on.  Soldiers are taught that the mission comes first, and their safety second.  "Officer safety" is usually given as the excuse for cops who murder innocent people because of their own fear and/or incompetence.  "Protect and serve" therefore is a bunch of BS.  They protect and serve themselves.  They want to be seen as heroes, like soldiers who give their lives for their country.  Sorry pal, you're not.

*  Before a soldier gets to bark orders at anyone, they spend as many as 3 or 4 years doing nothing but TAKING orders first.  Cops get to start barking orders at people from the moment they hit the streets.  And in the military, those who hold rank also understand that everyone has a chain of command.  And even though you outrank someone, you have no authority over that person unless they are in your chain of command.  Unless of course we are talking about "general military authority" which actually goes BOTH ways.  A lower rank can correct a higher rank if they are clearly out of regs.  Cops on the other hand are the lords of their domain with authority to detain and harass ANYONE they want.  And most of those people have no idea of their rights, and no idea whether they can or can't disobey whatever the cop is saying.

The result of this is that if you want to be a professional bully and boss people around all the time, be a COP, not a soldier.

*  In my 21 years, I never pointed my weapon at an ENEMY (thank God) let alone a fellow American.  Cops point their guns at Americans all the time.  Which do you think is more likely to get the Oath Keepers message of "Do not turn your guns on Americans?"

*  Police routinely get away with heinous crimes that would land soldiers in Leavenworth.  This promotes that attitude that they are above the law.  Soldiers are governed by much stricter laws than police or civilians (UCMJ), and there is VERY little slack in its enforcement.  Consequently, soldiers have a much greater respect for the rule of laws than most cops do.

*  Cops lie all the time.  They are trained to lie in order to trick perps into confessing.  They lie to cover each others asses when their buddies do wrong.  Don't get me wrong...  EVERYONE lies.  I will lie to save my own skin.  I will probably lie to help a friend, if I must.  For cops, lying is SOP.  I am saying this to address your point that "many of them that would say one thing and do the other."  I agree.

So no...  I don't "trust" anyone I don't actually know.  I'm hoping to move away from where I currently live, where I see the police force as being a lost cause.  And it is my hope that wherever I move to, the police force will be small enough that I can actually know everyone on it, and get some idea where they stand.  If there are too many for me to do that, I'm not rural enough.

If / when TSHTF, I will NOT see a badge as a friend.  I will see someone who still works for the assholes trying to oppress, extort, subdue, or kill me.

EDIT:  Did you watch what was happening during all the unrest in Egypt?  Police were taking off their uniforms and quitting, because people were beating the shit out of cops.  When the military stepped in to establish order, the people settled down.  Why?  Because they respected the military, and believed that they existed to protect them.  The cops on the other hand they knew only existed to harass them and take their money.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 07:42:26 am by Klapton »
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

securitysix

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 05:04:29 pm »

right again , sadly theres plenty of people who horde guns and ammo and food and other things, but when it comes down to the government wanting this stuff they will fold , I have found it awefully hard to "connect" with people who feel the same way I do ! I wholeheartedly believe in the constitution , it was made for ,fighting for , theres no difference today , I wont fight for the president ,the congress , I will for the people , but if the people have become puppy dogs to the machine ,I will have to disappear because I just dont see enough people that I trully believe would fight !

I snipped the rest of your post off because it was this paragraph that triggered my desire to reply.  While I believe the rest of your post has enough merit to be worthy of discussion, I have nothing particular to add to such a discussion, so I'll leave that for others.

You point out that so many people talk tough but aren't able or willing to back it up, and you're right.  I used to be one of those people shouting "From my cold dead hands" and "come and take them" and all that stuff.  And then it finally occurred to me (or maybe I just read/heard others saying it so many times that I realized the truth of it) that no one truly knows what they'll do when the feces strikes the air circulation device until it actually happens. 

For those who have seen combat, that question has pretty well been answered.  They know.  For those who have served but not seen combat, or those, like me, who never served, it's still a question mark.
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ARC308

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 07:34:53 pm »

You point out that so many people talk tough but aren't able or willing to back it up, and you're right.  I used to be one of those people shouting "From my cold dead hands" and "come and take them" and all that stuff.  And then it finally occurred to me (or maybe I just read/heard others saying it so many times that I realized the truth of it) that no one truly knows what they'll do when the feces strikes the air circulation device until it actually happens. 

For those who have seen combat, that question has pretty well been answered.  They know.  For those who have served but not seen combat, or those, like me, who never served, it's still a question mark.

There are a lot of people that "talk the talk" but can't back it up, even some military people that has not been in a real fire fight. I have seen some just freeze in place. There are also the foolish that wish for a war and have a false desire for it. Those foolish enough don't have a clue of what they are asking for. I have been there and honestly don't ever want to go through another but the way things are going, I am preparing for another.   

When it is necessary beyond any doubt, and you have to put yourself out there between protecting loved ones from the bad, get angry, harden yourself mentally and stand your ground tactfully.

Klapton,

I don't ever mean any disrespect towards you or Truly Honorable Oathkeepers. I call it as I see it and speak my mind. I have been on both sides Military and civilian Law Enforcement. And I can tell you that FAR TOO MANY of civilian officers will do one thing and say another. There are also some military that are the same but a lot fewer. Mind Set is the key and respect for others is the difference.

I have never considered myself a hero nor have I ever said such. I did my job to the best of my abilities and I do not accept any special treatment, not even the VA. The only hero's are my very best friend that was killed over there and all the others that never made it back. They live in my memories, no past tense.

Honor The Fallen
   
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Chase

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 01:49:04 am »


I have even bumped into militias that are Muslim sympathizers.
There is state sanctioned militias here in the south but the one here in Tennessee are Muslim sympathizers! I got into a pissing contest with one of their captains and a lieutenant. Tennessee Volunteer Militia are Muslim and work for DHS.

[/quote]

Why do you feel this is a bad thing, or am I misunderstanding you?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 01:51:30 am by Chase »
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da gooch

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2013, 11:54:53 pm »

 :lurk:

Nothing to add ... at present.
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Redce77

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 09:22:05 am »

I too have been on both sides (LEO & Military) , many military folks are weaker than the civilians , and cops as well , I had some lifelong friends and some I wouldnt piss on if they were on fire! The training that the military and leo's recieve is basically what sets them above the civilians , nothing else , all you have to do is watch a natural disaster to see who comes out , many times civilians step up to the plate and these people are the ones you'd least likely see stand up ,just how it is. As far as cops pointing guns at the civilian population , well if they didnt have guns , they'd be dead by the civilians, you see theres two types of civilians , there the law abiders , those people who grew up learning whats right and wrong (theres a lot of mind control in that statement) and then theres the people who have no fear , who are they? Are they really the criminals? the guy who passes on the double yellow lines, doesnt stop at traffic lights and what not , people who carry concealed even though they dont have a ccw (it is our right to carry)! , just saying if its in your genes , you'll step up , me I trust military and in particular Marines because I know them ,Cops , well if I served with them yes , if not ,I trust them as much as a the garbage man!
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jamie

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 03:58:17 pm »

I have no idea who will fold partially or completely and who won't.  History and experience tells me it is impossible to know.
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knobster

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Re: Questioning my Affiliation
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2013, 06:33:53 am »

I would like to think I won't fold but if the bad guys are holding guns to the heads of my loved ones...
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