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Author Topic: Oh Noes! Here we go again!  (Read 5872 times)

MamaLiberty

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2013, 11:26:44 am »

Usually it would be a lethal/ not so lethal option....

All this "less than lethal" stuff is pretty much nonsense as far as I'm concerned.  If someone is attacking me, I'm certainly not going to be thinking of anything except surviving and would not have time to be fooling around trying to decide what to use. If what I have in my hands turns out to be "lethal" for the attacker... that's HIS problem - and responsibility, not mine.

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Docliberty

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2013, 11:47:21 am »

A big rail gun? http://video.foxnews.com/v/4454912/navy-tests-electromagnetic-railgun/

Bear

The typical rail gun shoots at 25,000 mph (36,000 fps).  I wonder what you could do scale wise if you kept the speed at around the 5,000 fps range?
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Rarick

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2013, 10:49:08 pm »

Usually it would be a lethal/ not so lethal option....

All this "less than lethal" stuff is pretty much nonsense as far as I'm concerned.  If someone is attacking me, I'm certainly not going to be thinking of anything except surviving and would not have time to be fooling around trying to decide what to use. If what I have in my hands turns out to be "lethal" for the attacker... that's HIS problem - and responsibility, not mine.

Rocksalt for the kids stealing apples?  or loading a beanbag round in the shotty for the kids trespassing who needs to learn not to, before the lethal defenses are turned on.  (Last steps of a long slide shtf)
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

Rarick

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2013, 10:50:40 pm »

A big rail gun? http://video.foxnews.com/v/4454912/navy-tests-electromagnetic-railgun/

Bear

The typical rail gun shoots at 25,000 mph (36,000 fps).  I wonder what you could do scale wise if you kept the speed at around the 5,000 fps range?

Thinking of a tank main gun? or something that could kill tanks mounted on a pickup that is hideable?
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

Docliberty

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2013, 10:57:17 pm »

A big rail gun? http://video.foxnews.com/v/4454912/navy-tests-electromagnetic-railgun/

Bear

The typical rail gun shoots at 25,000 mph (36,000 fps).  I wonder what you could do scale wise if you kept the speed at around the 5,000 fps range?

Thinking of a tank main gun? or something that could kill tanks mounted on a pickup that is hideable?

Wondering if something hand held could get standard bullet velocities or maybe a little better shooting a 250 gr steel slug.
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Doc

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."  Marion Morrison

"I do not fear my government.  I fear what my government will cause me to become."   Docliberty

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

Rarick

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2013, 11:11:40 pm »

A big rail gun? http://video.foxnews.com/v/4454912/navy-tests-electromagnetic-railgun/

Bear

The typical rail gun shoots at 25,000 mph (36,000 fps).  I wonder what you could do scale wise if you kept the speed at around the 5,000 fps range?

Thinking of a tank main gun? or something that could kill tanks mounted on a pickup that is hideable?

Wondering if something hand held could get standard bullet velocities or maybe a little better shooting a 250 gr steel slug.

I don't think we have batteries with that kind of power density, what kind of Joules do you get out of a load of powder versus the kind of joules you can store in a battery/ electrical source.......   I think propellant beats electricity for at least another 20+ years in that department....  A pick up with a bed full of batteries and 5-6 one shot barrels would be devastating if everything could fit under the locking bed cover......
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

Bear

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2013, 10:17:54 am »

A big rail gun? http://video.foxnews.com/v/4454912/navy-tests-electromagnetic-railgun/

Bear

The typical rail gun shoots at 25,000 mph (36,000 fps).  I wonder what you could do scale wise if you kept the speed at around the 5,000 fps range?

Thinking of a tank main gun? or something that could kill tanks mounted on a pickup that is hideable?

Wondering if something hand held could get standard bullet velocities or maybe a little better shooting a 250 gr steel slug.

I don't think we have batteries with that kind of power density, what kind of Joules do you get out of a load of powder versus the kind of joules you can store in a battery/ electrical source.......   I think propellant beats electricity for at least another 20+ years in that department....  A pick up with a bed full of batteries and 5-6 one shot barrels would be devastating if everything could fit under the locking bed cover......

My wild @ssed guess is that a device large enough to take out unarmored vehicles (vans, trucks) would be too large to
be man-portable, but small enough to sit in the back of a pick up, or on a trailer towed by a pick up. Definitely a post-SHTF
defense system.

Bear
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knobster

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2013, 11:07:53 am »

My wild @ssed guess is that a device large enough to take out unarmored vehicles (vans, trucks) would be too large to
be man-portable, but small enough to sit in the back of a pick up, or on a trailer towed by a pick up. Definitely a post-SHTF
defense system.

Bear

Or a well-placed shot to the engine block with something 30cal or larger?
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Bear

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2013, 11:15:49 am »

Actually I was thinking used ball bearings for projectiles. Something
on the order of 1" diameter. Being round and able to roll, it might
reduce friction with the power rails.

Bear
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Docliberty

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2013, 02:20:13 pm »

Actually I was thinking used ball bearings for projectiles. Something
on the order of 1" diameter. Being round and able to roll, it might
reduce friction with the power rails.

Bear

Molly coated steel slugs might work too.

I was thinking in terms of a powderless rifle.  Shooting a 250gr slug at 3,000fps would probably do the trick.  If you can get it to 5,000 them it would go through about any personal armor that they can develop.
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Doc

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."  Marion Morrison

"I do not fear my government.  I fear what my government will cause me to become."   Docliberty

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

securitysix

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2013, 04:49:13 pm »

Usually it would be a lethal/ not so lethal option....

All this "less than lethal" stuff is pretty much nonsense as far as I'm concerned.  If someone is attacking me, I'm certainly not going to be thinking of anything except surviving and would not have time to be fooling around trying to decide what to use. If what I have in my hands turns out to be "lethal" for the attacker... that's HIS problem - and responsibility, not mine.

Rocksalt for the kids stealing apples?  or loading a beanbag round in the shotty for the kids trespassing who needs to learn not to, before the lethal defenses are turned on.  (Last steps of a long slide shtf)

Never let the muzzle of your gun cover anything you do not intend to destroy.  'Nuff said.
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Docliberty

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2013, 08:29:21 pm »

Looks like our dear Fedgov has taken control of the Defcad website and seized the plans for the 3D printed gun and AR lower.

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/breaking-us-government-takes-control-of-3d-printed-gun-makers-fileswebsite/#

If anyone has downloaded these plans and would be willing to share please PM me.
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Doc

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."  Marion Morrison

"I do not fear my government.  I fear what my government will cause me to become."   Docliberty

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

MeyerLemon

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2013, 01:12:29 am »

I should get a copy of that...my office has 2 commercial-grade 3D printers in the basement! I wonder if they would let me play with it?
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2013, 06:01:27 am »

Rocksalt for the kids stealing apples?  or loading a beanbag round in the shotty for the kids trespassing who needs to learn not to, before the lethal defenses are turned on.  (Last steps of a long slide shtf)

I didn't mean that there are no situations that call for less than lethal measures, by any means, though I would not use a shotgun in either of your examples myself.  I'd consider that an over reaction in both cases.

I'm talking about this "weapon" that supposedly has several options, where one would have to pick and choose among them in a true emergency.  IF I believe I have a real need to draw my gun, because I'm being attacked, I won't have time to consider using something that is "less than lethal."  If I encounter trespassers, they'd certainly get a serious opportunity to clear out, but unless they actually threatened me with death or great bodily harm, I wouldn't shoot with anything!

The important thing is to quickly and accurately assess the situation to know when there is a real threat, and respond appropriately. Nobody's ever going to do that perfectly, of course, but we must do the best we can with this as with anything else.
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oh No! Here we go again!
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2013, 06:05:17 am »

If anyone has downloaded these plans and would be willing to share please PM me.

Requires BitTorrent client:
http://thepiratebay.sx/search/Defcad/0/99/0

Liberator has been deleted from HEAD, but is still there in earlier version of archive:
https://github.com/maduce/defcad-repo
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