Are you aware that she and two other (both also cops) National Board of Directors members were removed from the Board and "drummed out" of the organization for pretty much the things you describe? And within a year of the formation of the organization ... if memory serves.
No I was not. I raised this point some years ago and no one responded to it. That's good news, and a good response.
When did Oath Keepers come in to being ? ( right here at TMM btw )
Have you spent any time or made any exertion in researching the organization beyond the search for examples of "faults" with which to crucify the organization? - - - 2009 February actually but 2009 March Officially in case you wondered.
I have done some research, but I missed that. I was under the impression the organization was several years older, and that TMM was simply an announcement.
Another good point, I withdraw all criticisms about events before 2009.
So in your universe there is no hope of redemption of a wayward person who was duped into serving to follow a "family tradition" or patriotic speeches by family, peers and friends? That's sad.
There is always hope of redemption. Quit the job and walk away. You did it, Elias did it, Stewart did it, more than I can count have done it. I've marched beside vets whose eyes were opened, even at the expense of losing limbs.
Family tradition and patriotic speeches are good reasons why young, impressionable people might join these organizations. But once they see with their own eyes the realities of the job, they have a choice. Either develop a self-serving us versus them moral code that excuses all actions, up to and including summary execution, or resign and walk away.
What I don't believe in, and can't trust, is that someone whose day job involves throwing young men against the wall, in whatever country, can be redeemed even as teeth meet stone. That's a contradiction I can't tolerate.
In the act of committing those acts the oath TAKER violates his/her oath and therefore Cannot Be an Oath Keeper. ALL WHO TAKE THE OATH ARE NOT OATH KEEPERS. Any more than all religions are evil, all men are domineering a-holes or all women are greedy beetches. "Common Sense is altogether too uncommon." B. Franklin
I realize that all who take the oath are not Oath Keepers. My criticism is of Oath Keepers who participate in those activities, or condone it with activities like back-up and silence.
This question(?) and the next few make the assumption that the Oath Keepers was created to educate the entire planet. HARDLY.
OK was formed to attempt to educate those AMERICAN "young, brainwashed persons" into their responsibility to obey the Oath, the UCMJ and to deeply evaluate their actions concerning the Rights of others especially following the Bill of Rights. We hoped, at the time, to be able to educate enough of the currently serving military and some few of the cops that the outrageous violations of rights, especially the physical violence, would decline or stop altogether. We were only partially successful and yet the "attempt" continues unabated.
I understand that the mission is directed at current and former US military and US LEO. But I hold those folks to the same standard even when they are sent overseas.
This question makes the assumption that anyone who enters the military or police force can instantly change the things that are and have been policy for generations by simply reaching out and throwing some kind of switch. See Franklin quote above.
I make no assumptions about the ability to change these institutions. I'm rather pessimistic about those prospects. My point is that one cannot carry out many, perhaps most of the orders issued to US military and LEO without violating the Oath of the OathKeepers.
This is one of the main reasons that OK has a much smaller number of LEOs than of vets and currently serving military. BUT that bit of knowledge would cost a person a little actual research of the subject which doesn't seem to be the pattern that is shining out here.
Being part of an occupation army includes routine activities like warrantless searches, disarming the civilian population, the imposition of martial law, etc. I find no distinction between doing these things to non-Americans and American citizens. I find it especially difficult to believe that people trained and experienced in these activities abroad will not respond in the same way when given those orders at home.
It is amazing to me that otherwise intelligent people will castigate an entire group to exercize their emotions over an issue that they have not researched beyond the bits and pieces chosen to frame the image as they Feel it is rather than find out what it is actually.
Without having any access to the minds of the thousands currently serving, without being inside the military and police forces, how would You begin to educate those people who obviously need reeducation on freedom and personal Rights?
By all means PLEASE start your own effort to stop the madness.
And please stop denigrating those who are trying to stop the madness in the only way that we thought at the time will actually work without starting the American Revolution II.
I criticize, I do not denigrate. I've acknowledged to Elias and others that I understand the goals and appreciate them.
Criticism, even vigorous criticism, is not the same as denigration. I don't denigrate Elias, or gooch, or Stewart. I do denigrate Celia S. Hyde and every MA LEO who enforces that state's draconian and wholly unconstitutional firearms laws. I'm pleased to hear that she has been removed from the OathKeeper organization. It's a good start.
I wish you luck, I truly do. I'm not optimistic but then there are times that I'm pretty pessimistic about me and everything else. I'm working one furrow in this field, others toil in adjacent, distant, or even intersecting paths. It's all good, and I'll accept criticism of my work just as I dish out my criticism of others.