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[Jake]

What military service and government schools do is prevent that evolution from being inspired by individual creativity.  The resultant person fits better as a cog in a externally-designed machine.  While the owners of the machine and fellow cogs might agree this is a good thing, I remain unconvinced.

That fits pretty good to me and a hindsight awakining. 

I think a few years on a remote farm, ranch or Walden Pond would be far better... ideally, some situation where if the individual does not produce, they do not eat. If they don't cut stack and burn wood, their room gets real cold.

This fits into my thots as isolation psychology, where I'd struggle with those that had been away and come back with different approaches and try to change what I had created.

I guess it boils down to "this is the way, because we have always done it that way"; Vs "this should be the better way".

I wish I had found this forum a loooong time ago.

[FDD]

Well Jake, you are here now, and it is never to late to learn anything.

[Rarick]

The services can give the young folks the ability, thru the extreme structure, the ability to structure themselves.  How many times have you stood behind a kids and shown them how to do a knot?  That is how extreme control and structure sometimes work when nothing else does.

The pile of skills you learn plus you also learn to think like a possible enemy.  The key is to remember why you came, and what your goal was.  You learn to work within a very structured environment to get what you want and what needs done.  Those rules do not necessarily apply outside the service, but it does teach you a cause and effect for your actions.

You pick up crude camping skills, marksmanship, a trade if you pick the right MOS, stress management, how to deal with the lack of modern convenience, learn about the world beyond the USA in a manner tourism will never teach, etc.

Meantime the entry tests during the schooling phase are a lot of fussing and bullshit.  A 2 year tour of duty was mainly training up a bullet throwing bullet catcher, a war in some far off place, and a month or two while the processed your walking papers.  Now it tends to be a year of training, 2 tours of duty in some far off place, sometime with lead weighted weather, and a process for discharge.....oh and it is a voluntary trauma thing, probably no worse than jackass the movie.

[snydleyr]

It was different when I was in and the benefit that I was referring to is the structured approach of discipline, self hygiene, neatness, responsibility, and the other good stuff that most military learns that helps them to keep their pie hole shut until something of value does come out.  Most military personnel that I had the pleasure were aware of the, "what goes on in the field stays in the field", the screening of war news where the ones at home were not exposed to the same as those at war. 

I agree that it is commercial and wrong for the conflicts going on now.  I feel that it will be here very soon tho.

I joined when I was 17 in 1972, GI Joe and the whole nine yards.  The whole structured approach and what you have stated was true in my case.  We also were not fooled by "The Establishment" for the most part.  It was a different time and era back then and we didn't need or have "safe spaces".  It was a divided nation at the time and even though we were in the military we knew what was happening in the world stage.  That doesn't mean that we didn't get screwed over by "The Man".  People of my generation also dropped the ball by "tuning in and dropping out", we got political only to stop the war then everything was cool man.  Then life actually had creeped up on us and we actually had to get in tune with life and make a living and paided no attention to the powers that be and creeped in and did their thing and now we know the rest of the story.  Now it's 2016 and the second revolution is about to be kicked off and it's not just about the USA anymore, it's about the whole world.  The whole world is watching and holding their collective breath that we do hold on and stay the course and keep freedom alive for the entire planet.  For if we fail then the whole world falls into darkness and then it will truly be hell on earth.    

[FDD]

It was different when I was in and the benefit that I was referring to is the structured approach of discipline, self hygiene, neatness, responsibility, and the other good stuff that most military learns that helps them to keep their pie hole shut until something of value does come out.  Most military personnel that I had the pleasure were aware of the, "what goes on in the field stays in the field", the screening of war news where the ones at home were not exposed to the same as those at war. 

I agree that it is commercial and wrong for the conflicts going on now.  I feel that it will be here very soon tho.

I joined when I was 17 in 1972, GI Joe and the whole nine yards.  The whole structured approach and what you have stated was true in my case.  We also were not fooled by "The Establishment" for the most part.  It was a different time and era back then and we didn't need or have "safe spaces".  It was a divided nation at the time and even though we were in the military we knew what was happening in the world stage.  That doesn't mean that we didn't get screwed over by "The Man".  People of my generation also dropped the ball by "tuning in and dropping out", we got political only to stop the war then everything was cool man.  Then life actually had creeped up on us and we actually had to get in tune with life and make a living and paided no attention to the powers that be and creeped in and did their thing and now we know the rest of the story.  Now it's 2016 and the second revolution is about to be kicked off and it's not just about the USA anymore, it's about the whole world.  The whole world is watching and holding their collective breath that we do hold on and stay the course and keep freedom alive for the entire planet.  For if we fail then the whole world falls into darkness and then it will truly be hell on earth.    

Sorry id I do not agree with you.

I have lived in "Hell" on earth (Chicago) and I say let it fall.
They, TPTB, have made their bed, so let them lay in it and every one that voted for them to make it so.
personally, I do not see it being that dark when it does fall, or maybe I am that much prepared for the shit.
Time will tell. but I look forward to it happening sooner than later.

[Klapton Isgod]

One thing I learned from military service is that I can survive nearly any level of bullshit as long as there is an end in sight.

.

[jamie]

finished