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Author Topic: Oath Keepers forming special teams...  (Read 12518 times)

Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2016, 08:59:43 pm »

Yep. The job of the police is to make the rantings of a gang of professional liars have the same unavoidable consequences as  natural law. Without them, those rantings are just ink stains on paper, with no authority whatsoever. Their job is to turn those ink stains into gravity.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

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knobster

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2016, 06:16:51 am »

For the record:  I have stated many times that I have much greater optimism that the military will disobey than cops.  For most in the military, the idea of pointing their guns at other Americans is repugnant.  (I recognize that this represents a double standard that should not exist.  I am simply stating what I believe to be true, not what I think SHOULD be true).  For cops, other Americans are the "enemy" from day one.  There are other HUGE differences, but I don't feel like listing them.

Anyway...  You should know that I almost got thrown out of Oath Keepers for "cop bashing."

.
I understand what you are saying, but will add this- Many returning soldiers go directly into law enforcement. I have seen some reports that state something like 20% of them try to become a cop when they get back. Just sayin'.

After I finished up basic training for the Air Force my next stop was tech school.  The first day (orientation) included a tour of the place, where we ate/slept/exercised/learned/crapped/etc and where we should line up at dawn the next day.  At 1700 hours that first day we were dismissed until reveille.  All of us fresh-out-of-boot robots looked around in confusion.  Huh?  We can go eat and then... do what?  No one was telling us what to do after chow!  What time do we hit the sack?  We had become conditioned to follow orders without question.  I was 29 when I went through basic and was surrounded by 18 and 19 year olds whose minds were probably much more malleable.

I'm convinced that if a drill sergeant had walked up to us and barked orders to pick up baseball bats and charge into a crowd of people we would have done it.

Now, would the drill sergeant have obeyed his CO if given those orders?  Dunno...

Oh, and upon my return from military life I did indeed take the initial physical/mental/behavioral exam to become an LEO.  I passed the first two but for some reason failed the behavioral.  Guess I didn't have what it takes.
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RVM45

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2016, 12:48:32 pm »

Friends,

Joining the US Army was the worst mistake of my life.

I don't deal well with stress and I require more sleep than most to feel atop my game. PLus I really bought into the bullshit about military dudes being "Steely-Eyed Killers" and wanted that distinction for myself—and I was bitterly disappointed to find that military life is more about being a Janitor than being a Homicidal Assassin.

Be all that as it may. If all of the Army life was just an extended version of Basic Training I think that I could have done my four years.

You KNEW when you awoke in the morning that absolutely NOTHING good was going to happen to you that day. You learned to accept that.

Later at AIT and Permanent Party—4 days out of 5 you just Might be able to do something semi-enjoyable after last formation. That made it far more disappointing when GI Parties or some other Dipshit nonsense took that modest reward away from you with little or no warning.


…..RVM45
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There are only Two Types of People in the World:

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jamie

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2016, 01:08:24 am »

Friends,

Joining the US Army was the worst mistake of my life.

I don't deal well with stress and I require more sleep than most to feel atop my game. PLus I really bought into the bullshit about military dudes being "Steely-Eyed Killers" and wanted that distinction for myself—and I was bitterly disappointed to find that military life is more about being a Janitor than being a Homicidal Assassin.

Be all that as it may. If all of the Army life was just an extended version of Basic Training I think that I could have done my four years.

You KNEW when you awoke in the morning that absolutely NOTHING good was going to happen to you that day. You learned to accept that.

Later at AIT and Permanent Party—4 days out of 5 you just Might be able to do something semi-enjoyable after last formation. That made it far more disappointing when GI Parties or some other Dipshit nonsense took that modest reward away from you with little or no warning.


…..RVM45

have to get through airborne school first before you can move on there RVM
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jamie

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2016, 01:12:43 am »

Yep. The job of the police is to make the rantings of a gang of professional liars have the same unavoidable consequences as  natural law. Without them, those rantings are just ink stains on paper, with no authority whatsoever. Their job is to turn those ink stains into gravity.

Can't argue with that observation. How do you feel about the Border Patrol?
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RVM45

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2016, 01:52:23 am »

Friends,

Joining the US Army was the worst mistake of my life.

I don't deal well with stress and I require more sleep than most to feel atop my game. PLus I really bought into the bullshit about military dudes being "Steely-Eyed Killers" and wanted that distinction for myself—and I was bitterly disappointed to find that military life is more about being a Janitor than being a Homicidal Assassin.

Be all that as it may. If all of the Army life was just an extended version of Basic Training I think that I could have done my four years.

You KNEW when you awoke in the morning that absolutely NOTHING good was going to happen to you that day. You learned to accept that.

Later at AIT and Permanent Party—4 days out of 5 you just Might be able to do something semi-enjoyable after last formation. That made it far more disappointing when GI Parties or some other Dipshit nonsense took that modest reward away from you with little or no warning.


…..RVM45

have to get through airborne school first before you can move on there RVM

Yeah. Have I told my story about how I failed out of Airborne school at Ft Benning here on TMM? I thought maybe that was what you were referring to.

If I could have just jumped out of that damned 32 foot tower at Airborne School all the gates to the treasure vaults of Heaven would have opened to me.

Nah, that whole idea is a kind of Hollywood myth. Do you think that when Carlos Hathcock walked down a city sidewalk that folks were so spooked by the sight of him that they crossed the street to avoid his deadly aura?

Hell no! A bunch of teen gangbangers would be as likely to target Hathcock as they would be to attack a plumber.
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There are only Two Types of People in the World:

A.} Folks who are after my Guns;

And;

B.} Folks who Are Not after my Guns.

Nothing Else Matters.

heyoka

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2016, 09:04:40 am »

you & Jimi (Hendrix)
 "There's nothing but physical training and harassment here for two weeks, then when you go to jump school ... you get hell. They work you to death, fussing and fighting."


Gunnery Sgt. Hathcock is dead too BTW.
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jamie

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2016, 05:28:43 am »

For the record:  I have stated many times that I have much greater optimism that the military will disobey than cops.  For most in the military, the idea of pointing their guns at other Americans is repugnant.  (I recognize that this represents a double standard that should not exist.  I am simply stating what I believe to be true, not what I think SHOULD be true).  For cops, other Americans are the "enemy" from day one.  There are other HUGE differences, but I don't feel like listing them.

Anyway...  You should know that I almost got thrown out of Oath Keepers for "cop bashing."

.
I understand what you are saying, but will add this- Many returning soldiers go directly into law enforcement. I have seen some reports that state something like 20% of them try to become a cop when they get back. Just sayin'.

After I finished up basic training for the Air Force my next stop was tech school.  The first day (orientation) included a tour of the place, where we ate/slept/exercised/learned/crapped/etc and where we should line up at dawn the next day.  At 1700 hours that first day we were dismissed until reveille.  All of us fresh-out-of-boot robots looked around in confusion.  Huh?  We can go eat and then... do what?  No one was telling us what to do after chow!  What time do we hit the sack?  We had become conditioned to follow orders without question.  I was 29 when I went through basic and was surrounded by 18 and 19 year olds whose minds were probably much more malleable.

I'm convinced that if a drill sergeant had walked up to us and barked orders to pick up baseball bats and charge into a crowd of people we would have done it.

Now, would the drill sergeant have obeyed his CO if given those orders?  Dunno...

Oh, and upon my return from military life I did indeed take the initial physical/mental/behavioral exam to become an LEO.  I passed the first two but for some reason failed the behavioral.  Guess I didn't have what it takes.


following orders without question is for the weak minded.

Normally in this context, there has to be an element of, this is a  righteous action,  for that to happen.   

Most likely the student air persons would have milled around in confusion if given the order to  "pick up baseball bats and charge into a crowd of people" by either the NCOIC or the OIC.  Or some rational individual would have spoken up.  Or the air persons would have shown a decided lack of interest in actually engaging in personal combat.


That isn't to say that emotion can't  drive the situation but that is a very high bar.
 

As far as being a LEO, in my brief experience, the pukes were the individuals who either  were never in the military or were some kind of pogue/remf.
 

« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 11:05:04 pm by jamie »
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Jake

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2016, 01:11:11 am »

It has often be my thot that following high school, 2 years of military training would square away a bunch more before they enter college, even women.  It would be like adding another 4 inches to the gun barrel.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2016, 05:07:32 am »

It has often be my thot that following high school, 2 years of military training would square away a bunch more before they enter college, even women.  It would be like adding another 4 inches to the gun barrel.

Slavery, cool way to start one's adult life...   ;p
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2016, 06:00:51 am »

Military training might be just the thing for some high school graduates, and they're free to enlist if that be their desire.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

MamaLiberty

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2016, 08:11:41 am »

Military training might be just the thing for some high school graduates, and they're free to enlist if that be their desire.

I didn't get the impression from that post that it would be voluntary. But I see zero benefit to young people being taught to blindly follow orders, or learning even more aggression than otherwise. The "discipline" is pretty much all anti-freedom, and anti personal responsibility...  I know something about the military "culture" - having been a Marine "brat," and a Navy wife. Most of the young people I see coming OUT of the military are seriously damaged in some way, though a few finally figure out that they were conned and used.

But yes, it is their choice, as long as there is no actual "draft."
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2016, 08:20:03 am »

I didn't get the impression from that post that it would be voluntary. But I see zero benefit to young people being taught to blindly follow orders, or learning even more aggression than otherwise. The "discipline" is pretty much all anti-freedom, and anti personal responsibility...  I know something about the military "culture" - having been a Marine "brat," and a Navy wife. Most of the young people I see coming OUT of the military are seriously damaged in some way, though a few finally figure out that they were conned and used.

I agree with you, MamaLiberty. I detected a hint of compulsory in Jake's suggestion of two years of military training between high school and college. But he didn't actually SAY that. I also don't think military training is generally a good idea. But I've never done it, so I really don't know. I recommend that anyone tempted to enlist be given a copy of Major General Smedley Butler's War Is A Racket.

The draft is precisely the "involuntary servitude" forbidden by the Thirteenth Amendment.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 08:21:47 am by Bill St. Clair »
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Jake

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2016, 02:06:50 am »

It was different when I was in and the benefit that I was referring to is the structured approach of discipline, self hygiene, neatness, responsibility, and the other good stuff that most military learns that helps them to keep their pie hole shut until something of value does come out.  Most military personnel that I had the pleasure were aware of the, "what goes on in the field stays in the field", the screening of war news where the ones at home were not exposed to the same as those at war. 

I agree that it is commercial and wrong for the conflicts going on now.  I feel that it will be here very soon tho.
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slidemansailor

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Re: Oath Keepers forming special teams...
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2016, 08:41:37 am »

I used to buy into the "make a man out of ya" mantra. Now I figure aging does that one way or another.

I also think that most men will grow up somewhere between 14 and 40 regardless of where life leads them. 

What military service and government schools do is prevent that evolution from being inspired by individual creativity.  The resultant person fits better as a cog in a externally-designed machine.  While the owners of the machine and fellow cogs might agree this is a good thing, I remain unconvinced.

I think a few years on a remote farm, ranch or Walden Pond would be far better... ideally, some situation where if the individual does not produce, they do not eat. If they don't cut stack and burn wood, their room gets real cold.
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