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[Alton Speers]

I went to LRC this am. as I usually do and I came across this article by Gary North:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north345.html
 As usual I verified all his links in the article and then did another search on the topic in question. His article was about a company I have never heard of, ChoicePoint. What I subsequently found is, well, I can't even find words to describe. Why worry about a national ID? The information already exists on a single database from a single corporation that the government already has access to. Find this incredible? See for yourself:

http://www.choicepoint.com/  Main company link
http://www.choicepointonline.com/  B2B access point
http://www.cpgov.com/  Gov access point

The next 2 links are info/discussion on a security breach at ChoicePoint that happened last October:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/choicepoint/  EPIC maintains a page on this outfit
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/02/15/01282...?tid=158&tid=17  Slashdot discussion on this outfit

These last three links are to current news at their respective news outlets concerning the breach of security at ChoicePoint:

http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopic...1,99886,00.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/apb...rney%20Generals
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6969799/

If my math is correct, ChoicePoint claims to have 14,000,000,000 (Billion) records and the US claims to have 300,000,000 (million) people. This gives us about 47 records per person in the US. Of course, this assumes that
1) EVERY US person is in the database (NO Foreign persons)
2) that every person listed is limited to those 47 records (improbable as transactions are recorded)

even though this hyperbole it useful to demonstrate the quantity of data held by ChoicePoint.

Alton






 

[Desertrat]

Shucks.  Deputize those folks, and send them after bin Laden.  They probably could do better than INS for finding illegal aliens...Imagine their power if they cross-linked to the rental-video chains!

Hey, just type your phone number into Google:  Zap!  There's your name, address, and a choice of two maps of your residence location.  (They're three miles off, on my location. )  Type your name in.  Surprised?  Type your Internet "handle" in:  How many websites do you visit and post?

My wife, at her business, used to get mailing-list offers--categorized by zip code or by occupation--and other formats.  That's from before the Internet.  People have been collecting data for resale purposes for as long as information has been available.  The difference is of degree, not of kind.

Nowadays, I guess, personal security against white-collar Bad Guys--whether private or public sectors--lies in having a zipcode in a lower economic area, for one thing.  If folks think you're poor, you're of no interest.  If you're making good money, have a working checking account with only monthly needs in it--the rest in some different bank or different type of account.  Pay cash for as much as you can.  And, better to write a check than to use a credit card.

But as long as people can make money snooping, they're gonna snoop.

'Rat

[byron]

ChoicePoint is a little of everything. I found out many months ago when I applied for a job.

You know how companies are a little afraid of what info they divulge on ex-employees, when a request from a potential new employer of the applicant is requested? Well, one way they can get around not being liable for releasing info on you is to just give the info to a 3rd party, like ChoicePoint. Then the potential employer contacts ChoicePoint, not the ex-employer.

It is difficult for the job applicant to dispute when they have to go through a 3rd party. It lets the ex-employer off the hook. And, even if you do dispute it, no potential employer gives a damn. The damage is done.

It is like having a false positive on a piss test when applying for a job...it happens, and it happened once to me about 12  years ago. No second chance, no repeat of the piss test...just "get out, we are not interested in employing you." In this case, I demanded that they report me to my licensing board for being a drug user....they just stood there with a dumb look on their face. And, no they did not report me to the licensing board...did not want to be liable I guess.

[Lightning]

Sorry, Alton, that I saw this referred to in Claire's blog this morning before I read this thread.  So I unwittingly started a separate thread in Hardyville.  

You put the case really well here, and thank you.  

What was that talk we had awhile back about the Amish?      

[Claire]

Ditto on Lightning's post. Thank you, Alton, for providing all these links, as well.

I rant. You research.    

[Silver]

nevermind

[Alton Speers]

Sorry Lightning, I didn't even look at the Hardyville forum when I found this stuff. In fact, I was surprised that Unstructured hadn't posted on this yet. I was under a deadline to get out the door this am. and I didn't even do a search to see if I missed it on another post. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the more places this info appears, the better.  Fortunately, our Amish buds are already disconnected from this stuff.

I think 'Rat's on the money as far as a plan goes...make yourself financially uninteresting. It works for me. I'm in that database somewhere but, thankfully, I'm ignored. Minimize your exposure to the "world". If you can't make a 100% withdrawal this is a good way to become a "ghosgitator" ..."agitghost"?...well, just out of sight and out of mind.

Claire, the arrangement is just fine the way it is.  

Alton

[Roy J. Tellason]

So I decided to take a quick peek at this company's page...

And there,  on the top of the page,  in a picture,   it says:

"Keep Your Family and Personal Information Safe"

Right...
 

[UnstructuredAgain]

If you all want to find out who's who among data aggregators!  Check out ideasforliberty.com.  
It would blow yall's minds, http://www.acxiom.com/  as the runner up.  Felons running the company.  It really is a conspiracy perhaps?  

Peace and Good Day

[UnstructuredAgain]

Check it out, more and more and more and more............

http://www.acxiom.com/default.aspx?ID=1657...57&DisplayID=18

Through the Acxiom Partner Program, we have a variety of partnering relationships with market leaders including those partners who resell Acxiom data products, integrate Acxiom products and technology into their own software applications or service-based solutions, deliver implementations including Acxiom products and technology, and those whose products are included in Acxiom solution offerings.

Following is a listing of our current Strategic Partners.

Accenture
D & B
HP
IBM
Oracle
SAS
TransUnion


We also work with:

Allant
Bearing Point
CognitiveDATA
Chordiant
Computer Associates International
Direct Media
DoubleClick
Equitec
Lockheed Martin Corporation
PeopleSoft
Polk Company
Unica Corporation
USADATA
 

[Roy J. Tellason]

Check it out, more and more and more and more............

http://www.acxiom.com/default.aspx?ID=1657...57&DisplayID=18

Through the Acxiom Partner Program, we have a variety of partnering relationships with market leaders including those partners who resell Acxiom data products, integrate Acxiom products and technology into their own software applications or service-based solutions, deliver implementations including Acxiom products and technology, and those whose products are included in Acxiom solution offerings.

Following is a listing of our current Strategic Partners.

Accenture
D & B
HP
IBM
Oracle
SAS
TransUnion


We also work with:

Allant
Bearing Point
CognitiveDATA
Chordiant
Computer Associates International
Direct Media
DoubleClick
Equitec
Lockheed Martin Corporation
PeopleSoft
Polk Company
Unica Corporation
USADATA

I wonder how these people (ALL of them!) would feel if someone were to collect all of their personal data,  along with pictures,  and put it out there on the 'net...?

[Mostly Harmless]

Trying to get out of the databases is futile. That stable door is off its hinges and has been chopped up for firewood.

What worries me is that there is apparently no way an individual can get hold of the records, except in a credit report, and correct any errors.

Much of what they have in these databases is wrong or outdated -- I'm still getting junk mail addressed to the previous owner of the house I've lived in for 5 1/2 years.  The famous Google your phone number trick gives a name and address way across town for my number -- and I've had the number a couple of years now.

I manage databases for a living. I'm happy if we can keep our errors under 5%. I'm working with healthcare claims and enrollment data and my data comes from 4 HMOs. A lot of the errors we have are harmless -- names spelled differently by the different HMOs so that John Smith and Jon Smith are the same person  -- and don't effect the integrity of the data. Some are more difficult -- listing John Smith as female then denying him treatment for prostate cancer on the grounds that (s)he doesn't have a prostate is more than a bit of a problem. But it's fixable. John Smith and/or his doctor can get that fixed.

5% of 14 billion is 700,000,000 (seven hundred million ) that's an awful lot of bad data.  

Now, a lot of that bad data isn't going to hurt anyone, but the unintended consequences of someone acting on the bad data could be horrendous:

• Losing your job because another John Doe failed a piss test
  [li]Having your car repo'd because the data entry person mis-typed the VIN of a non-payer and the mis-typed VIN was yours.
  [li]Getting your utilities cut off for someone else's non-payment  of bills.
  [li]Being placed on the no-fly list because you once lived in an apartment that a suspected terrorist lived in 5 years earlier
  [li]Having a SWAT team knock down your door because they have the wrong address (oh, wait, that already happens!).
  

I'm sure all of you can add things to this list.

Without the data collection agencies being held accountable for the data they acquire and hold and without the subjects of the data being able to see what's  held on them and get it either corrected or removed, then the potential for abuse is unlimited.

[Joel]

Problems getting bogus stuff off credit reports also come about because they cross-pollinate.

I didn't know anything about credit agencies until an incident many years ago when somebody used my name and soch number to have a helluva shopping spree in Kentucky.  My first hint was when credit apps started getting refused.  Every time I'd finally succeed in getting something removed from, say, Equifax, it would still be on my TransUnion report.  Get it off there, and it's reappeared on Equifax.  It took months and months to finally clear it all up, and over and over I heard that I didn't have the right to the information.  Kept having to shell out money for reports, which often took weeks to arrive.  Enough to get a guy reaching for a shotgun, if only there were someone to shoot.

Infuriating.  I still detest those people, even more than the original thief.

[RagnarDanneskjold]

Hmmm, quoting someone from another thread

Acxiom - that's the company that was involved along with Systematics in the development of PROMIS. Actually, I think it was the same company. Started as Systematics, then became Alltel and then morphed into Acxiom. Yeah, I'd trust them. 

[Elias Alias]

PROMIS? Shoot, that's the program Cheney was using on the morning of 911 to over-ride the FAA's and NORAD's radar and communications systems. It is also the program on which CIA monitors in "real time" the transactions on the NYSE, which is a problem Mike Ruppert saw relative to the massive insider trading in the week prior to 911. Velly interestink!