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Author Topic: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada  (Read 20732 times)

DiabloLoco

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MamaLiberty

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2014, 04:13:21 pm »



Video has been removed

Who and why? Just curious.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2014, 04:36:06 pm »

It got uploaded twice by accident, and one of them deleted.  Nothing suspicious.  Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HkSAewoESg

.
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Lonewolf72

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2014, 10:01:26 pm »

Thanks, Klapton
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da gooch

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2014, 11:37:20 pm »

OK ...

First things first.
I am glad I went.

I arrived there late on Thursday (24th) and stayed in the main camp until the "big Brou-ha-ha" mentioned in Elias' update.

While I was there there was no real outward dislike of the OK faction or personnel directed at me personally.

I left to go to town for a "real shower and soft bed for one night" and the drone strike call was made while I was in town. (Mesquite, NV.) I had no knowledge of the drone strike intel or of the suggestion to "spread out - make a smaller target" that is, apparently, the source of all of the (IMO) ego based drama.

As I had been in good graces prior to my heading into town I was not considered one of the "bad OKers" and was allowed to return to pack up my gear and redeploy to the "scouts out" ring of early warning lookouts without any hassle from any of the main camp campers.
A day or so later I brought a Nurse Joyce, from Montana, into the camp to meet the Bundys and we were turned away at the Bundy security gate. (a different place than the Main Camp)
Since she is an OKer I decided to introduce her to the "Main Camp" folks and see just what and how strong their reactions would be.

Most of the folks were glad to see her and to have another licensed Nurse in their midst.
Then the "Command Structure" heard of her arrival and we were interrogated by the "Commander" and his No 1 (bodyguard, BFF, shadow ...??? Jac.){No relation to OUR jac whom I have met, like and would know on sight} as well as another "officer" whom I had never met before.
The Commander [his name is in Elias' post above] had a short speech that he said he had to give us because we had identified ourselves as OKers. He wanted us to Swear, on a handshake, that we had not been sent into camp by Stewart or OK, had not been given any orders to spy on or disrupt the camp structure and that we would obey HIS Orders and no one else especially Stewart's or we could pack our gear and leave. Oath of Fealty anyone? Images of a wannabe Prince (sp?) vetting his serfs came to mind. 
I thought This is a seriously power drunk puppy IMHO.
We all said Oh Yes of course we would obey and promptly forgot the oath we had "sworn".
Nurse Joyce and her group (her daughter Lilia, aged 4? and her cousin Howard aged 70+) and I all decided to return to town. Nurse Joyce left back to Montana the next day and I stayed in Mesquite helping with the "patrols" until it was time for me to leave for home.

I never did get the camera to work. Sorry for not having photos to share but most of the videos probably show most of the area and the surrounding countryside.
Think dry Nevada desert with gravel piles as "hills". The Virgin River is the only reason for human habitation in that location.

While I was proud to stand between the Bundys and the PTB's I was never allowed to meet the Bundys and I never did see a serious defensive combat position while I was there.
There was ONE rifle pit constructed at the insistence of the OK leadership and there were about six other places where they would have been extremely handy but digging out a 5 foot by 4 foot rifle pit in hard pan desert gravel is not any kind of fun so .... folks walked around with their rifles on their chests in complete ignorance of the reality of infantry combat. Most wearing forest camo in a desert. I was in my Texas cowboy camo and was one of only a few who looked natural in that environment.

My overall impression was of a group of folks with no military experience being led by a group of vets with no combat experience but inflated egos as their armor. Boys playing "war" only with real weapons and real enemies. I have no way of knowing who did or did not have actual combat experience I just mention my Opinion.

One fellow there was an Army vet whose specialty in the big green was to find and help solve security problems. (MACSOG ?) I don't have any idea so don't ask.
He went with Stewart and The Commander (and another OK Board of Directors member who gave me this story) to the top of one of the gravel hilltops that defined the main camp and was asked to explain what he would do (as the enemy) to "take out the camp". For less than three minutes he studied the geography of the camp and said (I paraphrase for I was Not present) ...
"Do you see that small canyon across the river from here? (nods all around) I would bring in two Apaches and in less than five minutes this entire camp would be ashes. This camp is indefensible.
It is a cul-de-sac with no back door. It has steep hills to the south, the river to the north and one parked pickup closes the gate on all of the inhabitants." Fish in a barrel.

Now I didn't get that kind of training from the boiler rooms of the Navy Destroyer I was on but when told the story I could see exactly what he was pointing out. The main camp is indefensible so Stewart's call to "disperse" was a good one in MHO.

In MHO the ego drama at the main camp was pretty much "by-the-book" divide and conquer for the SF (Special Forces) Green Berets or the CIA/NSA spooks. Unfortunately (in MHO) the Bundys were taken in by the tale they were told and OK was "cut - out". I don't think the Bundys cut us out I am pretty sure it was the "Private security group" that became their Guardians Jailors.

I will be pretty busy for the next week or so getting my business back to running and caught up but I will answer any questions I can.

My gratitude to the several folks here who supported my drive over, my stay there and my return trip. I could not have gone without your help. You Know Who You Are.  Thank You.

gooch
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mi6a2lm

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2014, 12:14:30 am »

Interesting story.  Sounds like you had an experience.  Most folks as you well know like to talk the talk ('I'm a former Navy SEAL!  (no proof) Dig a fighting hole here on this desert plain!  Command structure! <military terms here included from reading various autobiographies of combat veterans>) - sounds like you ran into a few.

Lots of things worth commenting on in your post.  Don't worry about the camera not working - you detailed things pretty good.     
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jamie

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2014, 08:05:08 pm »

The AAR should bring out multiple lessons learned. If acted on the lessons learned should prevent this sort of situation from happening again.

I never did understand the drone strike and now the hysteria about the use of Apaches.

It wasn't that kind of situation.

Every one had to know if air was used there was no defense.  It just seems kind of naive that O-K would even think an air strike was a possibility. Naive or a serious misreading of the psychological situation.

I do understand that in the middle of a tense situation clear thinking is hard.

Even fedguv could figure out the  consequences of that kind of reaction.

Gooch, thanks for the report and taking the time and effort to go there.

Maybe next time a dd 214 should be required for everyone claiming to be a seal, SF, Ranger, infantry or whatever.

I realize that some percentage of the board hates all things military.

According to Laurence Vance and Silver the military is evil, stupid, mindless, brutal and absolutely without redemption.

I guess only those who were never there know the truth.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 02:17:29 am by jamie »
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2014, 06:43:11 am »

According to Laurence Vance and Silver the military is evil, stupid, mindless, brutal and absolutely without redemption.

Might ask the average Iraqi and Afghanistan villager... as they mourn their dead sisters and mothers, brothers and fathers. There are no doubt individual military members with actual hearts and minds, and sorrowfully, I suspect that many or most of those are taking their own lives or joining the ranks of veterans with damaged minds and PTSD, etc.  Would not that indicate that there was a serious problem with the entire set up?
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #68 on: May 06, 2014, 08:14:38 am »

I served for 21 years and never killed anyone.  Being in the Army hugely shaped my view of the world and my realization just how evil but most of all STUPID government is.

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MamaLiberty

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2014, 08:38:19 am »

Being in the Army hugely shaped my view of the world and my realization just how evil but most of all STUPID government is.

Yeah, living as a Marine brat and a Navy wife managed to reinforce that realization, without my ever being "in" the military.
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Rarick

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2014, 09:39:24 am »

The Progressive media is saying there were checkpoints along the roads out there that were manned by militia.  Did you see anything like that?

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Moonbeam

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2014, 12:14:38 pm »

Glad you are back, Gooch! Thank you for the update...
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DiabloLoco

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2014, 04:36:20 pm »

Glad you are back, Gooch! Thank you for the update...
Ditto! :thumbsup:
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da gooch

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #73 on: May 06, 2014, 04:46:57 pm »

The Progressive media is saying there were checkpoints along the roads out there that were manned by militia.  Did you see anything like that?

Short answer = Nope.

Longer Answer = I was one of the road blocks and the road we blocked was Mr Bundy's private road on Mr Bundy's private property where it left Gold Butte Road a public road paved and is maintained by Clark County. It is a dirt surfaced cul-de-sac that led into the "main camp" on Mr Bundy's private property.
There was another just like it on Mr Bundy's private driveway where it also left Gold Butte Road.
I know of no other road blocks.
I also served on the OK scouts-out-road-patrols and never saw a single road block on a public road or highway for the entire week I was in Nevada.

It is my considered opinion that one of the progressive legislators (Rep. Steven Horsford - Dem) is spreading this rumor in an effort to demonize all of the volunteers who are forming the wall of bodies between the Bundys and The State.

Here is a link to an article claiming that the "militias are wearing out their welcome" and references the Bo-o-o-o-ogus road block meme. The photo is the Misguided Child that promoted himself to the rank of Commander and wanted an Oath of fealty to stay in the main camp. (His name is Jerry Delemus, he is from New Hampshire and is the one who said "I came here to die".)

All of that said ... I have been gone for about five days and cannot say for certain that anything is or is not happening there now.

The AAR should bring out multiple lessons learned. If acted on the lessons learned should prevent this sort of situation from happening again.

I never did understand the drone strike and now the hysteria about the use of Apaches.

<snip - snip>

Unless it is in one of the videos that I am unable to view I don't know of any "hysteria about the use of Apaches".

I mentioned them in recounting the opinion of an Army Ranger who was asked to "play the devil's advocate" and mentioned that the use of two Apaches would be the end of the main camp.
Is that what you refer to?

Glad you are back, Gooch! Thank you for the update...

Glad you are back, Gooch! Thank you for the update...
Ditto! :thumbsup:

Thanks Moonbeam and DiabloLoco.
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jamie

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Re: Oath Keepers call to arms- Nevada
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2014, 04:26:23 am »

"Unless it is in one of the videos that I am unable to view I don't know of any "hysteria about the use of Apaches".

I mentioned them in recounting the opinion of an Army Ranger who was asked to "play the devil's advocate" and mentioned that the use of two Apaches would be the end of the main camp.
Is that what you refer to?"

Hysteria was perhaps not the right word.  Here is  how I meant it.   I already stated that, of course, an airstrike  from drones or any other platform would be "the end of the main camp" . That is very obvious. You  don't have to be any kind of military to know that.

As a matter of fact AT 4s or several other methods would have been the end of the camp and a lot easier to explain away and lie about later.  So I just find it amusing that anyone would even talk about Apaches.


The question is  why would O-K or militia or anyone even think a fedguv air strike was even remotely possible?  Or give the prospect any kind of credibility ?     The hysteria part comes in because seriously discussing the possibility  was very much over reaction. I could see ways for O-K and militia to have used this in the psywar aspect.  But they missed that opportunity.   Not to mention that apparently the drone strike intell was disinfo and O-K played right into fedguv hands by reacting as they did.  Because that caused the charges of cowardice and disunity to some degree.

 I am surprised that there didn't seem to be any recognition of psywar.  Lessons learned should also have an SOP for rumor control, containing panic and dealing with difficult people.

 

Don't take this as a criticism of O-K or Stewart Rhodes or yourself. I wasn't there, I was just trying to add my .002 cents worth for lessons learned. 

  Just to restate.

There was no chance of fedguv using an airstrike on the bundy ranch.  Why would  anyone think that fedguv, already teetering on the edge, if not already there, of illegitimacy would send Apaches or a drone against a bunch of Americans at this time, in this place?

 

The army ranger and O-K should have stuck with the situation as it was,  not as it was in Afghanistan.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 04:37:20 am by jamie »
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