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Author Topic: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves  (Read 7919 times)

eric1

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Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« on: May 28, 2014, 06:33:12 pm »

I have mentioned this in passing in responding in another thread. The idea here is to move like-minded people en masse to low population towns/counties (Liberty District concept) so as to concentrate political power and try to set up the type of lifestyle/government one wants. This is what the Free State Project was all about. Unfortunately, they chose not to employ this concept, instead spreading out their numbers throughout the state of New Hampshire, and as a result have not had the type of success that they had hoped for. Personally, at this point, I would like to see a number of such enclaves established nationwide
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jamie

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 07:33:57 pm »

I don't know about New Hampshire. But that specific idea is being tried with free state Wyoming. So far it doesn't seem to be working.

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Faded

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 12:43:45 am »

Anarchists are two hairs short of being Nihilists, they do not create. Libertarians are, to paraphrase Robert Frost's definition of a liberal, those so broadminded they cannot even find their point. I do not have any faith in this dehydrated crap.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 06:04:46 am »

I don't know about New Hampshire. But that specific idea is being tried with free state Wyoming. So far it doesn't seem to be working.

Well, it depends on what you consider to be "working." The FSW is not, and has never been a political organization. We don't have political goals and have no plans to "change" Wyoming. We seek to be and have good neighbors. So far, that's worked for me and quite a few others. Some have not found that, unfortunately.  So, it "works" for some, and not for everyone.
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jamie

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 02:53:39 pm »

I don't know about New Hampshire. But that specific idea is being tried with free state Wyoming. So far it doesn't seem to be working.

Well, it depends on what you consider to be "working." The FSW is not, and has never been a political organization. We don't have political goals and have no plans to "change" Wyoming. We seek to be and have good neighbors. So far, that's worked for me and quite a few others. Some have not found that, unfortunately.  So, it "works" for some, and not for everyone.

of course FSW isn't an organization. That point has been repeatedly made.  What I was referring to are freedomistas concentrating in the three counties of N.E. Wyoming. To my knowledge that hasn't really worked. Yes some people have moved there and are good neighbors and so forth.

Apparently not enough to make a difference.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 03:02:35 pm by jamie »
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 03:05:39 pm »


of course FSW isn't an organization. That point has been repeatedly made.  What I was referring to are freedomistas concentrating in the three counties of N.E. Wyoming. To my knowledge that hasn't really worked. Yes some people have moved there and are good neighbors and so forth.

Apparently not enough to make a difference.

What "difference" were you looking for? :) You still don't explain what you mean by "work." 

The only "difference" I'm expecting is in my own life and relationships. That "works" - and is working for me. And I think that pretty much spells it out for a lot of FSW folks. You just need to look for different people if you want something else.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 03:48:08 pm »


of course FSW isn't an organization. That point has been repeatedly made.  What I was referring to are freedomistas concentrating in the three counties of N.E. Wyoming. To my knowledge that hasn't really worked. Yes some people have moved there and are good neighbors and so forth.

Apparently not enough to make a difference.

What "difference" were you looking for? :) You still don't explain what you mean by "work." 

The only "difference" I'm expecting is in my own life and relationships. That "works" - and is working for me. And I think that pretty much spells it out for a lot of FSW folks. You just need to look for different people if you want something else.

I think that "works" is supposed to mean government becoming less intrusive and meddlesome because more liberty-oriented people are there.  This may or may not have been FSW's stated goals, but it WAS the stated purpose of FSP in NH, and I think that is what some folks are hoping for.

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MamaLiberty

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 04:19:06 pm »

I think that "works" is supposed to mean government becoming less intrusive and meddlesome

That's not going to happen until most people reject the idea that "government" has any legitimate authority to control anything....

And that has to start with individuals, each deciding that for themselves... not some political process.  I sure don't see any other potential avenue to that goal.
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heyoka

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 09:29:18 am »

I don't know about New Hampshire. But that specific idea is being tried with free state Wyoming. So far it doesn't seem to be working.
It might have sold some books :rolleyes:, or scored GOB points for importing cheep slaves.
Libertarians are, to paraphrase Robert Frost's definition of a liberal, those so broadminded they cannot even find their point. I do not have any faith in this dehydrated crap.
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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 07:41:08 pm »

I don't know about New Hampshire. But that specific idea is being tried with free state Wyoming. So far it doesn't seem to be working.
It might have sold some books :rolleyes:, or scored GOB points for importing cheep slaves.
Libertarians are, to paraphrase Robert Frost's definition of a liberal, those so broadminded they cannot even find their point. I do not have any faith in this dehydrated crap.
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You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there..
--Yogi Berra

Hah, That's funny.  And I agree, it certainly imported some seriously cheap slaves.  Who even paid their way there, bought their own homes, and found it very difficult to make a living without having some side scam or a business that sells anywhere but locally.

Where I live, and where else I have property, I barely get enough money to pay gas and taxes.  Occasionally get some ground beef to eat a good juicy burger... the rest is sales elsewhere.  I imagine short of mine workers and truckers in the northwest, unless you're in Rapid City or the populous areas of Montana, the good old boy network will have your ass blacklisted faster than you can say "unemployment check."
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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 07:43:07 pm »

Anarchists are two hairs short of being Nihilists, they do not create. Libertarians are, to paraphrase Robert Frost's definition of a liberal, those so broadminded they cannot even find their point. I do not have any faith in this dehydrated crap.

I find that definition damn insulting.

I have very defined goals, I have very defined intentions in my life, and just because I don't partake in someone else's beloved tyranny doesn't mean I worship the end of existence.  You could say the governmentalists and uber religionists worship that.  They worship nothingness and the end of life, and seek always to end their own or "can't wait to die."  They want to trade the bird in hand for the one on the fence... except they don't know where the fence is, and they've only been told there's another bird on it.
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jamie

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 09:07:49 pm »


of course FSW isn't an organization. That point has been repeatedly made.  What I was referring to are freedomistas concentrating in the three counties of N.E. Wyoming. To my knowledge that hasn't really worked. Yes some people have moved there and are good neighbors and so forth.

Apparently not enough to make a difference.

What "difference" were you looking for? :) You still don't explain what you mean by "work." 

The only "difference" I'm expecting is in my own life and relationships. That "works" - and is working for me. And I think that pretty much spells it out for a lot of FSW folks. You just need to look for different people if you want something else.


What "difference" were you looking for? :) You still don't explain what you mean by "work."


Change in the status quo towards more freedom.   Not just hey this is freer than the last place  I lived. The works part should be self explanatory.  But in a nutshell means it hasn't worked as a vehicle for more freedom as far as I can see.

I wasn't looking at it in personal terms. Of course people are individuals and of course some will be happy and some won't be happy.

The title of the thread is creating libertarian/anarchist enclaves. That is what I was responding to.  I don't see FSW as being successful in that respect.

And just to repeat of course I understand that individual circumstances vary and of course I understand that people have to understand the concept of self ownership and zap or nap and spooner was right and vouluntaryists are better than ancaps and big L and small L  libertarians  and on and on.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 09:16:22 pm by jamie »
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2014, 01:18:43 am »

Quote
And just to repeat of course I understand that individual circumstances vary and of course I understand that people have to understand the concept of self ownership and zap or nap and spooner was right and vouluntaryists are better than ancaps and big L and small L  libertarians  and on and on.

But many, if not most don't understand anything beyond their "gut feelings".....which just might be enough to give them both a hint and a clue
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Rarick

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2014, 09:41:09 am »

Yeah, it is hard to determine exactly where a lot of people stand.  There is also the issue of fault tolerance......  You have a mix of libertarians that vary from anarchy to constitutionalist and varying points of right and left as well........

Enclaves above a county in size just do not seems to be developing "Legs" and counties can get bogged down in their own realities  I Think that is what Desitin Frouda ran into where he was at.  That is why you need to do your scouting carefully.
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Tipitaka

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2014, 03:43:01 pm »

There are 5 entirely autonomous towns in the Mexican state of Chiapas. They do everything for themselves and receive no services from outside, nor do they pay taxes or acknowledge the state.
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