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Author Topic: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves  (Read 7913 times)

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2014, 03:24:12 am »

There are 5 entirely autonomous towns in the Mexican state of Chiapas. They do everything for themselves and receive no services from outside, nor do they pay taxes or acknowledge the state.

Correct, in the end, the state only recognizes MIGHT.  Whether it is military might or economical might, that is ALL they recognize.  And if you make the mistake of being their bitch, aka, grovelling for their goodies, or addressing them in the wrong context... they own you, or they will prove they do, unless you can resist.  Economically or militarily.  Militarily involves a lot of blood spilt.  Economically is usually the chosen path, and it often works, usually after a probing military thrust is parried, deflected or utterly crushed.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

Tipitaka

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2014, 08:11:24 pm »

There are 5 entirely autonomous towns in the Mexican state of Chiapas. They do everything for themselves and receive no services from outside, nor do they pay taxes or acknowledge the state.

Correct, in the end, the state only recognizes MIGHT.  Whether it is military might or economical might, that is ALL they recognize.  And if you make the mistake of being their bitch, aka, grovelling for their goodies, or addressing them in the wrong context... they own you, or they will prove they do, unless you can resist.  Economically or militarily.  Militarily involves a lot of blood spilt.  Economically is usually the chosen path, and it often works, usually after a probing military thrust is parried, deflected or utterly crushed.

The towns in Chiapas are protected by a militia 40,000 strong. Though it's mostly a big stick, since they also have a declaration that they will not wage war without federal provocation. They could potentially pwn the Mexican Army in its current state of disarray and dwindling membership due to the drug war. This is likely the largest reason behind the recent ambush of school children and murder of their teacher by a gov't backed nationalist militia. They allegedly drug his body around until a group of women came to get him. However, they are not deterred; and even offer tours of their farms, schools, and factories to show other people how it can be done.

Here are 4 trip packages they offer, and proceeds go to their schools since they do not collect taxes or receive subsidy. Instead, this site sells things to make it happen... http://www.schoolsforchiapas.org/trips/You will notice a lot of people wearing balaclavas or bandannas... Anarchy isn't legal in Mexico (or anywhere else lol). It's a matter of security.
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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2016, 07:20:01 pm »

I think the whole key issue here is whether people are going to settle for just security for themselves and their neighbors or if they are going to THINK A LITTLE BIGGER THAN THEMSELVES and try to organize something that will have a potential to make a greater impact. I give the Free State Project a lot of credit. However, I think they had bigger dreams in the beginning and the REALITY is that they are not as potent a force as they thought they would be. I believe the reason for this is that they have not concentrated their forces enough. Location is also a key. New Hampshire along with the rest of New England is becoming increasingly liberal. In terms of freedom issues, they align very well with the libertarians, but in terms of economics they are miles apart.
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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2016, 04:49:03 am »

They should have tried Hare Krishna scale stuff.  1 county at a time rather than a whole state.  Each county could be an Extended Family or an Artisan Guild, or some other entity based on some sustainable resource common for the county.  As it is now there seems to be a perquisite where you have to be financially independent, and that will not work when the economy crashes because the cash supporting the enterprise suddenly turns into T.P.
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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2016, 03:32:10 pm »

I think the whole key issue here is whether people are going to settle for just security for themselves and their neighbors or if they are going to THINK A LITTLE BIGGER THAN THEMSELVES and try to organize something that will have a potential to make a greater impact. I give the Free State Project a lot of credit. However, I think they had bigger dreams in the beginning and the REALITY is that they are not as potent a force as they thought they would be. I believe the reason for this is that they have not concentrated their forces enough. Location is also a key. New Hampshire along with the rest of New England is becoming increasingly liberal. In terms of freedom issues, they align very well with the libertarians, but in terms of economics they are miles apart.

No, the problem is that the FSP would work.  Boston T. Party happened, and being a charismatic demagoguish jerkass, he managed to split the numbers by preaching end of the world shit and selling Wyoming as a more welcoming and meritocratic place than the quagmire of backstabbery and primitives it actually is.

It has a good power grid, which will shortly be importing power after the last northern mine files for bankruptcy.  Even Cloud Peak near Gillette cut back people.  Several of my neighbors commute there and they're home... a lot, as of late.  Sorry folks, I now fully suspect Boston and his inner circle of buddies to be either religious fanatics looking to form their own special theocratic mini state the moment things go bad enough for them to seize power, or they are government agents who were intended to hijack the free state project and find a way to split it up and ruin its efficacy. 

I still can't believe I fell for it.  Yeesh.  I could have moved to New Hampshire on a lark and saved tons of cash.  And much as people say Boston Marxichussetts is bad... remember, government overreaches where money is to be made.  When people make money they don't mind overreaching government, because life is easy and plentiful.  Where people don't make money, an overreaching government gets shot.

I knew this instinctively when I lived on the east coast, but I learned it EXPLICITLY when I moved here.  I never ran into the kind of government worship and blind religious fervor on the coast as I did here.  And to think I once thought the coast was shit.  (Its gotten worse, so it is shit, now... the issue is I moved to the shitpile assuming it was some meritocratic place where you'd earn your way if you were good and honest, if I were to give details of everything that's been done and all the backstabbery I went through out here... lets say it was easier dealing with the crooked cops back home.)
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2016, 03:47:31 pm »

I think the whole key issue here is whether people are going to settle for just security for themselves and their neighbors or if they are going to THINK A LITTLE BIGGER THAN THEMSELVES and try to organize something that will have a potential to make a greater impact. I give the Free State Project a lot of credit. However, I think they had bigger dreams in the beginning and the REALITY is that they are not as potent a force as they thought they would be. I believe the reason for this is that they have not concentrated their forces enough. Location is also a key. New Hampshire along with the rest of New England is becoming increasingly liberal. In terms of freedom issues, they align very well with the libertarians, but in terms of economics they are miles apart.

No, the problem is that the FSP would work.  Boston T. Party happened, and being a charismatic demagoguish jerkass, he managed to split the numbers by preaching end of the world shit and selling Wyoming as a more welcoming and meritocratic place than the quagmire of backstabbery and primitives it actually is.

It has a good power grid, which will shortly be importing power after the last northern mine files for bankruptcy.  Even Cloud Peak near Gillette cut back people.  Several of my neighbors commute there and they're home... a lot, as of late.  Sorry folks, I now fully suspect Boston and his inner circle of buddies to be either religious fanatics looking to form their own special theocratic mini state the moment things go bad enough for them to seize power, or they are government agents who were intended to hijack the free state project and find a way to split it up and ruin its efficacy. 

I still can't believe I fell for it.  Yeesh.  I could have moved to New Hampshire on a lark and saved tons of cash.  And much as people say Boston Marxichussetts is bad... remember, government overreaches where money is to be made.  When people make money they don't mind overreaching government, because life is easy and plentiful.  Where people don't make money, an overreaching government gets shot.

I knew this instinctively when I lived on the east coast, but I learned it EXPLICITLY when I moved here.  I never ran into the kind of government worship and blind religious fervor on the coast as I did here.  And to think I once thought the coast was shit.  (Its gotten worse, so it is shit, now... the issue is I moved to the shitpile assuming it was some meritocratic place where you'd earn your way if you were good and honest, if I were to give details of everything that's been done and all the backstabbery I went through out here... lets say it was easier dealing with the crooked cops back home.)

Sorry you have had a bad deal with this.

I am finding WY to be a hell of a lot better than the shit hole that Chicago was and still is.

So why are you still in WY  if it is the shithole you feel it is?
Why not move? What is stopping you from moving?
Why not just cut your loses, and go to someplace you would be happier in?

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If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

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That's WY

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2016, 08:11:34 pm »

Because I don't know where to go anymore.  I burned a LOT of cash, so unless you're about to offer to pay me back or buy me out, moves cost money, especially with all my equipment.  I'm still kinda making some money, just none of it here.  I don't want other YOUNG productive people to move here without knowing what they're getting into.

Wyoming is a GREAT place to warehouse older folks who want to retire.  It would be a fantastic place if the controlling clique of good old boys didn't lock people out unless they are retirees or employees at the local burger joint.

Last, Wyoming was sold to us young'uns as something it wasn't.  Some liberty loving panacea.  It isn't.  Its just a place where older folks are welcomed, but younger folks are run off.  If I hadn't seen the place through the eyes of my various friends in the FSW, I would have seen Wyo for what it was and run off screaming about 70+ grand ago.

And don't get so high and mighty with me.  Its all you voting old folks who sold us down river by not fighting when the fight would have been easier.  And your folks did it to you and so on.  Instead of moving to where I could've made a difference, I moved... here.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2016, 11:02:15 pm »


And don't get so high and mighty with me.  Its all you voting old folks who sold us down river by not fighting when the fight would have been easier.  And your folks did it to you and so on.

When did I get all high and mighty with you?

I have tried to talk with you as one who is here, and have tried to understand you.
But I have learned a long time ago, no one can make me do anything. If you feel you got cheated, then you did not do your studying of the area very well.
there are areas here that I would never look at, but I looked at where I was, and what I wanted, and which would give me the best life for me and with what I have.

and you might think about that when you start lumping every one you feel like has done you wrong somehow.

no place is perfect, but some places are better than others, it is all in how you work "Your" system for life.

Oh, and as for the move, it did not take all that much to walk away from a bad deal in ILL and move here.
If there is a will, there is a way. stop crying about it.
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Nobody needs an AR-15
Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

I think, therefore I am not a progressive liberal socialist marxist democrat

That's WY

Cherokee

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2016, 11:10:34 pm »

I don't see how anarchy and liberty are related. One means anything goes. The other means leave me alone and I won't bother you.

Someone above related libertarian to liberal. You missed the mark. Libertarians are about liberty. Liberals are more akin to the anarchists who will shove their liberties down your throat.
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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2016, 12:57:46 am »

I don't see how anarchy and liberty are related. One means anything goes. The other means leave me alone and I won't bother you.

Someone above related libertarian to liberal. You missed the mark. Libertarians are about liberty. Liberals are more akin to the anarchists who will shove their liberties down your throat.

Libertarian = Classical Liberal +1.

Case you were wondering.

Anarchist = Rules OK, Rulers NOT OK.

Hope that helps.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

DiabloLoco

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2016, 05:18:33 am »

I don't see how anarchy and liberty are related. One means anything goes. The other means leave me alone and I won't bother you.

Someone above related libertarian to liberal. You missed the mark. Libertarians are about liberty. Liberals are more akin to the anarchists who will shove their liberties down your throat.

Libertarian = Classical Liberal +1.

Case you were wondering.

Anarchist = Rules OK, Rulers NOT OK.

Hope that helps.
Must be that he has only heard the government approved definition, not the actual one.

The government would like you to think of some punk with weird hair, causing a ruckus just for the hell of it when you hear the word anarchy. Reality is quite different.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 05:20:50 am by DiabloLoco »
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2016, 07:31:38 am »

I don't see how anarchy and liberty are related. One means anything goes. The other means leave me alone and I won't bother you.

To me the Zero Aggression Principle is the definition of libertarian, meaning that initiating force is NEVER justified, no matter how many people vote for it. That means no taxes, so any "government" would have to survive on donations and fee for service. In such an environment, private business would almost certainly do EVERYTHING government does, better and cheaper. Conclusion: libertarian implies anarchist.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Cherokee

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2016, 12:20:41 pm »

Thanks for clarifying. I'm not always right, nor do I feel the need to be.

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2016, 06:05:50 pm »

Thanks for clarifying. I'm not always right, nor do I feel the need to be.

Semper Gumby
Always Flexible

It might shock you, being a relative newcomer and all (or at least infrequent poster) but we're all allies in this information war.  Some of us have just been fighting it for a LONG time, via various means and have had our thinking evolve.  Most of us started by getting into guns, physical science, etc, and then saying "well, if they lied to us about that, I wonder what else they lied about?"

Most enlightened human beings can live without needing cops to tell us not to steal, not to rape, not to murder, etc.  In fact, if we were more required to pitch in for defense, we might actually have evolved faster.  Organisms without pressure to be strong and fit, turn into mush and are promptly killed off or out competed by their more able peers or direct adversaries.  Lions don't need to press 500 pounds every day to stay muscular (note that lions mostly sleep, eat, shit and fuck.  Period.  No BS about it.)  Guys who press 500 pounds also will not win a fist fight with a lion.  Because lions have claws and fangs, and our claws and fangs are our overwhelming ability to use knowledge to devise solutions to problems.  Our claws at this level of technology are weapons and armor.

While I doubt muslims have been socialized enough to not be savage barbarians... an armed society would reduce their population growth to only the polite ones. :D
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

Cherokee

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Re: Creating Anarchist/Libertarian Enclaves
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2016, 09:31:44 pm »

Yeah, I'm relatively new to THIS forum,  but I'm no novice in the liberty movement, or to critical thinking.

I just have a tendency to hold firm in certain circumstances while being extremely flexible all around.

Being flexible doesn't mean gullible or easily moved. We can't all be right all the time.

My usually straight forward approach may come acr
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