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Poll

Does the membership of TMM want to turn Elias loose to recruit new members?

Yes! Go for it.
- 24 (75%)
No, leave TMM as it is
- 6 (18.8%)
No. I have a better idea (details below)
- 1 (3.1%)
So THAT's where the old coot went....
- 1 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Voting closed: March 05, 2015, 06:56:24 am


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Author Topic: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)  (Read 110204 times)

A Patriot

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2014, 04:29:46 pm »

Just a heads up...  A forum member at Oath Keepers PMed me asking about anarchism.  I gave them a brief answer, but also directed them here.

Please be nice.

Well you have one more from "Oath Keepers" come and join up!
I looked around a little and I can see I fit in over here, myself not being a veteran or current serving.
Hello Elias, Shorty and Klapton i do believe you created this place just to get me away from Oath Keepers...

Way back when I was in my senior class in high school, my "Current American Problems" teacher told us the war in Viet Nam was "unconstitutional"...  I looked everywhere for knowledge on this subject and even took classes on the Constitution and on the draft to learn how to get out of having to go there.  I mean everyone was thinking... it is to protect and defend our country from the "domino effect" of communist in Viet Nam, but to go there without congressional approval is in fact breaking the Constitution.
 I think I was an "oath keeper" then too no?  I haven't yet then takin the oath, but I understood I should follow the supreme law of the land and NOT allow myself to be "drafted" to be breaking it...

I figured that out at the age of 17 and have been hot to trot in this movement ever since... Am I the only "conscientious objector" to belong to Oath Keepers?

I am glad this place is called TMM , I totally get it!
When I belonged to Bill Cooper's CAJI ( Civilian Association of Joint Intelligence ) of the second  continental army, ( the Arizona militia ) we never trained in the woods,  we were always out teaching the sheeple about the constitution and about our rights!
I may be wrong, but it believe it was Cooper who made up the term "Sheeple" I never heard it anywhere before, and it has stuck. He was right on many other things to... Dose anyone know about Cooper here?
I know he had his faults, but he was the spearhead of the movement at the time and I wanted to belong!

Well... I wonder who else is around here? I anticipate having a good time learning about this site and all you peoples point of view! I am all ears...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 01:20:26 pm by A Patriot »
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DiabloLoco

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2014, 04:45:09 pm »

Just a heads up...  A forum member at Oath Keepers PMed me asking about anarchism.  I gave them a brief answer, but also directed them here.

Please be nice.

Well you have one more from "Oath Keepers" come and join up!
I looked around a little and I can see I fit in over here, myself not being a veteran or current serving.

Well...Let me be the first to give you a hearty welcome. I hope that you have a comfy chair. This place can be addictive in the beginning. There's SO.....MUCH.....STUFF....to read!
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2014, 04:57:01 pm »

but perhaps you misunderstood my question,

Yes...

Quote
So my next question is *why* did you want to avoid admitting you have a mind

I didn't see THAT as the question.

Quote
Are you concerned that I might go off on a tangent about mental states, mental manipulation, mind control, group-mind-vs-individual-mind theories?

Yes, and from what else you've written here and elsewhere, that does seem to be your major theme. That's what the "MindWar" shouted to me.  I think discussion of any of that belongs in a different thread. I apologize that I made too large a leap and did not consider everything you wrote here carefully enough.

Quote
why would you want my question to be directed to a private discussion?  I am just asking, as it leaves me baffled.

A prolonged discussion about mind control, etc. did not seem appropriate for this thread. I still think another - or several other threads would be more appropriate. I only suggested the PM in case YOU felt a need for it. I always offer it. 

Quote
that this place is named The Mental Militia, and that the very name itself indicates that members here value mentality, and that ownership of one's mind is a basic prerequisite, and that personal responsibility for the structure, nature, and content of one's individual mind is the door to personal freedom, and that no "militia" ever existed outside the purpose of obtaining and maintaining "freedom".

Of course. I don't think TMM has ever completely lost that focus. There are a few regular members who seem to think this involves endless posting of the "news" and various atrocities, etc. - but I don't know why that should be a problem. Anyone who does not share that focus is perfectly free to ignore it.  I post the "news" or commentaries from outside with the intent to encourage discussion. Sometimes those discussions get heated, and sometimes nobody cares enough to contribute, but I don't see that as a problem either.

I don't want to see some cadre decide that there can only be ONE kind of discussion here, ONE philosophy, ONE method... or even only two or three, and attempt to seize "control" of the forum in some way.  It can happen so easily...

Quote
then we can talk about personal responsibility for the content of one's mind,

Seems to me that anyone who does not take personal responsibility for the content of their mind isn't going to be interested in anything we write. I happen to think that everything is a choice. The fact that some people make choices based on faulty information or motives doesn't change that. But if they are not willing to understand that they DO have a choice, and can find better information if they want it... and that better information is what is worth talking about. As far as I'm concerned, the only rational motive for choices is honest self interest, based on the integrity of non-aggression.

But you can't make that damned horse drink no matter where you try to lead him if he's plain NOT THIRSTY. I spent a good part of the last 60 years trying to lead those horses around and found it was a fat waste of my time and effort. Now I look for THIRSTY horses, and indicate where they might find water if they want it. If others want to trail along out of curiosity, terrific, but it is their CHOICE. If people want to die of thirst, I really can't do a damned thing about it but sigh a little now and again. I have no responsibility to save anyone but myself, and the older I get, the less interested I am in saving the world.

See, I don't believe for a moment that any entity on earth can control the minds of people against their will. They can be seduced, bought, and intimidated, of course... but that's a different thing.  And I don't believe in any kind of supernatural or extra terrestrial entity either.  But I have zero interest in preventing anyone else from discussing any of it, to say the least. None of my business.

Quote
ML, you don't need to be uncomfortable speaking with me --

LOL! You know me better than that, my friend. I've never been shy about speaking my mind... and many here have made it plain that I do too much of it... so I've quit to a great extent. Far too many people seem to be intimidated by someone speaking their mind powerfully, and with conviction. They want everything couched in conciliatory and apologetic terms, and I won't be bothered.

Quote
we've been friends since the year 2000, when I drove from Memphis, Tennessee to Lobo's and Sunni's LRT conclave in Utah.

I remember that week with great fondness, and still have the tiny polished stone you gave me. I keep it handy, and rub it in my fingers at times... savoring so much goodness. :)

Quote
If I happened at some time to let you know "your slip is showing",

And I appreciate it. :) Just realize that I might say to you that "that's the way I wear it." Something one person sees as a problem might not be a problem for someone else... it's a matter of perspective. We usually don't know unless we ask, of course. And it is good to ask...

Quote
I am trying to find out if this place wants to die a slow death of disinterest, or if it wants to accept a new challenge to actually become a "Mental" militia,

But I think this is the crux of the thing... we need to honestly and openly discuss what that means. I don't think it has anything to do with a "group mind" or any "consensus" - Gnu forbid. sigh

I'm an individual sovereign. I very much appreciate voluntary association, cooperation and discussion with those of like mind. I find the idea of a mind meld of any king abhorrent. That's the difference for me.
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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2014, 06:36:23 pm »

 :threvil: Mama speaks her mind? so that is the voices I keep hearing at night.  ;p
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Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.┬ ┬  Ed Feulner

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A Patriot

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2014, 07:35:18 pm »

Just a heads up...  A forum member at Oath Keepers PMed me asking about anarchism.  I gave them a brief answer, but also directed them here.

Please be nice.

Well you have one more from "Oath Keepers" come and join up!
I looked around a little and I can see I fit in over here, myself not being a veteran or current serving.

Well...Let me be the first to give you a hearty welcome. I hope that you have a comfy chair. This place can be addictive in the beginning. There's SO.....MUCH.....STUFF....to read!

Thank you very much. Glad to meet you!
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casca-503

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #80 on: December 10, 2014, 09:54:11 pm »

pull up a log, get closer to the fire...sit a spell... and welcome to the monkey house...
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knobster

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2014, 07:53:24 am »

Welcome patriot.  Like others have said, pull up an e-chair and buckle in.  I'd say hang on but sometime the ride here is more fun with your limbs flailing about.
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Elias Alias

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2014, 08:25:23 am »

Just a heads up...  A forum member at Oath Keepers PMed me asking about anarchism.  I gave them a brief answer, but also directed them here.

Please be nice.

Well you have one more from "Oath Keepers" come and join up!
I looked around a little and I can see I fit in over here, myself not being a veteran or current serving.
Hello Elias, Shorty and Klapton i do believe you created this place just to get me away from Oath Keepers...

Way back when I was in my senior class in high school, my "Current American Problems" teacher told us the war in Viet Nam was "unconstitutional"...  I looked everywhere for knowledge on this subject and even took classes on the Constitution and on the draft to learn how to get out of having to go there.  I mean everyone was thinking... it is to protect and defend our country from the "domino effect" of communist in Viet Nam, but to go there without congressional approval is in fact breaking the Constitution.
 I think I was an "oath keeper" then too no?  I haven't yet then takin the oath, but I understood I should follow the supreme law of the land and NOT allow myself to be "drafted" to be breaking it...

I figured that out at the age of 17 and have been hot to trot in this movement ever since... Am I the only "conscientious objector" to belong to Oath Keepers?

I am glad this place is called TMM , I totally get it!
When I belonged to Bill Cooper's CAJI ( Civilian Association of Joint Intelligence ) of the second continual army, ( the Arizona militia ) we never trained in the woods,  we were always out teaching the sheeple about the constitution and about our rights!
I may be wrong, but it believe it was Cooper who made up the term "Sheeple" I never heard it anywhere before, and it has stuck. He was right on many other things to... Dose anyone know about Cooper here?
I know he had his faults, but he was the spearhead of the movement at the time and I wanted to belong!

Well... I wonder who else is around here? I anticipate having a good time learning about this site and all you peoples point of view! I am all ears...

Welcome, A Patriot; and thank you for signing up here.
Yes, I've got Cooper's book and recordings of his on-air stuff. I collect such things.
Regarding the Viet Nam war, I'm a USMC Veteran of that war-crime, and I salute you for seeking ways to avoid complicity in the horror put forth by our stolen federal government. Don't know how long you've been at Oath Keepers, but in case you missed my "take" on that war, here's one I posted there a while back--

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/10/01/over-there-and-over-here-a-letter-from-the-editor/

Don't quit Oath Keepers, Bro, just add this place to your daily travels, right? Oath Keepers is doing a wonderful job for this country. I'm trying to get TMM off its ass to do something comparable, which is what this thread is all about. We'll see how it goes with the membership here.

Salute!
Elias
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A Patriot

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2014, 12:19:38 pm »

You know there is a large group of non serving Patriots over there I know who would just love this place. Sometimes I think they frustrate the veterans there more then encourage them?  I know the vets have to learn too as you did,  it has been my mission to encourage everyone to stay the course over there.
Can I recruit people over there to come here ???   I can do it overtly or clandestinely...  I almost think you really want to keep it a secret or something because I have been a member of Oath Keepers since before you posted that article you mentioned and never really got the message of this forum before...   

I want to do all I can in the efforts you have to restore this republic, give me the word, "here am I send me..."
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #84 on: December 11, 2014, 12:36:56 pm »


I want to do all I can in the efforts you have to restore this republic, give me the word, "here am I send me..."

Any member here can recruit, encourage or proselytize anyone at any time to come to TMM. Just remind them that this is not a single issue forum, that there is a great diversity of people, philosophies and convictions here... and that there is no automatic acceptance of anyone just because they say they took a "oath."

Please emphasize the importance of reading the members agreement and the welcoming message from Elias.

They'll need a thick skin, and the ability to discuss sensitive things without taking personal umbrage or engaging in personal attacks. If they can accept those conditions, let 'er rip.
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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2014, 03:03:29 pm »

Elias, not to nitpick but:

Quote
Welcome, A Patriot; and thank you for signing up here.
Yes, I've got Cooper's book and recordings of his on-air stuff. I collect such things.
Regarding the Viet Nam war, I'm a USMC Veteran of that war-crime, and I salute you for seeking ways to avoid complicity in the horror put forth by our stolen federal government. Don't know how long you've been at Oath Keepers, but in case you missed my "take" on that war, here's one I posted there a while back--

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/10/01/over-there-and-over-here-a-letter-from-the-editor/

Don't quit Oath Keepers, Bro, just add this place to your daily travels, right? Oath Keepers is doing a wonderful job for this country. I'm trying to get TMM off its ass to do something comparable, which is what this thread is all about. We'll see how it goes with the membership here.

Salute!
Elias

Nobody ever "stole" what so many call "our" government, no more than the guys in Mainland Europe paid Dane-geld tribute to what they considered "their" Vikings, either. 

It wasn't "ours" to begin with, and it wasn't, therefore, stolen.  Stealing implies ownership.  You cannot own those who demand tribute from you.  Unless you think all the occupied territories owned the Huns and Attila instead of the way it actually was.

The Constitution was a brilliant coup de'etat by a brilliant bunch of lawyers and their sycophants.  The rabbit hole goes very deep, and I don't feel like wasting my excellent and very expensive keyboard's lifespan to type a "tl;dr" comment which will neither be read, nor comprehended, nor replied to, in any intelligent format, not even on this most subversive of forum media.  So, I'll leave it at that.  Those who've read enough, know that the government was never meant to belong to the submitizens any more than the farm belongs to the chickens or the ranch belongs to the cows.  But bleating about it certainly expends energy they could spend living their lives or actually effecting change where it can be done.

Good luck "fixing" the evil people.
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Elias Alias

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2014, 03:15:07 pm »

You know there is a large group of non serving Patriots over there I know who would just love this place. Sometimes I think they frustrate the veterans there more then encourage them?  I know the vets have to learn too as you did,  it has been my mission to encourage everyone to stay the course over there.
Can I recruit people over there to come here ???   I can do it overtly or clandestinely...  I almost think you really want to keep it a secret or something because I have been a member of Oath Keepers since before you posted that article you mentioned and never really got the message of this forum before...   

I want to do all I can in the efforts you have to restore this republic, give me the word, "here am I send me..."

A Patriot, yes, there are a lot of folks over there who would like this place. And for the record, this is the place where I met Stewart Rhodes, and we used this place as the first Oath Keepers forum while we were getting Oath Keepers started. Scroll down the topics page and you'll see it.
However, this place has faded noticeably over the years, as Stewart and myself and others are kept quite busy dealing with Oath Keepers business "over there" at the dot org and dot net sites and with all the activity. Some folks here prefer quality over quantity and are hesitant to open the floodgates of the Internet to pump new life into the place, which is a concern I respect. I have posed the question that maybe it's time TMM got off the couch, put down the beer and snacks, and actually "do" something, which would mean bringing in lots of new folks and having a sense of direction in developing new projects, such as a major drive to reinstitute the Constitutionally-required "Militia of the several States". I see a need for that in this country, as demonstrated by this coming Saturday's mass crime wave planned in Olympia, Washington, where thousands of "Freedom Outlaws" will gather at the Capitol and openly violate Washington's new anti-gun law. Sheriff Mack, Mike Vanderboegh, and Ammon Bundy will speak with others. They are expecting thousands.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/12/11/we-will-not-comply-call-to-action-saturday-at-olympia-washingtonat-olympia/

So I've got ideas, and have proposed that I use my connectivity with national leaders in various organizations to advertise this place and draw in many new people and get them excited to do things. But I want it to be acceptable to the members and Admins here before I do that, which is why this particular thread is here.

As MamaLiberty said, it's cool to bring in people you know, and that would be appreciated if you let them know up front that glass toes are easily shattered here, and that this is not a typical "conservative" place. The mission statement which you might want to have friends read first and to which MamaLiberty alluded is here:

http://www.thementalmilitia.com/MissionStatement.html

If they can read that and still want to participate here, they would be welcome. Over the years since this board went online in 2003 a lot of folks, many thousands, have honed in one way or another their perceptions about various things. And there are literally tons of information sitting around on old threads here -- including some of my comments which I hope no one ever sees, lol. ;)

Anyway, welcome again. Enjoy. And thank you for joining.
Salute!
Elias
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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #87 on: December 12, 2014, 10:04:20 am »

You know there is a large group of non serving Patriots over there I know who would just love this place. Sometimes I think they frustrate the veterans there more then encourage them?  I know the vets have to learn too as you did,  it has been my mission to encourage everyone to stay the course over there.
Can I recruit people over there to come here ???   I can do it overtly or clandestinely...  I almost think you really want to keep it a secret or something because I have been a member of Oath Keepers since before you posted that article you mentioned and never really got the message of this forum before...   

I want to do all I can in the efforts you have to restore this republic, give me the word, "here am I send me..."

A Patriot, yes, there are a lot of folks over there who would like this place. And for the record, this is the place where I met Stewart Rhodes, and we used this place as the first Oath Keepers forum while we were getting Oath Keepers started. Scroll down the topics page and you'll see it.
However, this place has faded noticeably over the years, as Stewart and myself and others are kept quite busy dealing with Oath Keepers business "over there" at the dot org and dot net sites and with all the activity. Some folks here prefer quality over quantity and are hesitant to open the floodgates of the Internet to pump new life into the place, which is a concern I respect. I have posed the question that maybe it's time TMM got off the couch, put down the beer and snacks, and actually "do" something, which would mean bringing in lots of new folks and having a sense of direction in developing new projects, such as a major drive to reinstitute the Constitutionally-required "Militia of the several States". I see a need for that in this country, as demonstrated by this coming Saturday's mass crime wave planned in Olympia, Washington, where thousands of "Freedom Outlaws" will gather at the Capitol and openly violate Washington's new anti-gun law. Sheriff Mack, Mike Vanderboegh, and Ammon Bundy will speak with others. They are expecting thousands.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/12/11/we-will-not-comply-call-to-action-saturday-at-olympia-washingtonat-olympia/

So I've got ideas, and have proposed that I use my connectivity with national leaders in various organizations to advertise this place and draw in many new people and get them excited to do things. But I want it to be acceptable to the members and Admins here before I do that, which is why this particular thread is here.

As MamaLiberty said, it's cool to bring in people you know, and that would be appreciated if you let them know up front that glass toes are easily shattered here, and that this is not a typical "conservative" place. The mission statement which you might want to have friends read first and to which MamaLiberty alluded is here:

http://www.thementalmilitia.com/MissionStatement.html

If they can read that and still want to participate here, they would be welcome. Over the years since this board went online in 2003 a lot of folks, many thousands, have honed in one way or another their perceptions about various things. And there are literally tons of information sitting around on old threads here -- including some of my comments which I hope no one ever sees, lol. ;)

Anyway, welcome again. Enjoy. And thank you for joining.
Salute!
Elias

Good luck with the protest.

More importantly, I'm with you on the "militia of the several states" thing, but it has to NOT be under the control of the government.  Remember Shay's and the Whiskey Rebellion.  That was militiamen used by Washington (the guy, not the town) to put down protesters.  That was America's version of Tianamen Square.
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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #88 on: December 12, 2014, 12:16:50 pm »

...I just accepted this forum for what it is: a motley crew of personalities ... this is still a place that is comfortably familiar ľa place I call home.

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Elias Alias

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #89 on: December 12, 2014, 01:35:11 pm »

Elias, not to nitpick but:

Quote
Welcome, A Patriot; and thank you for signing up here.
Yes, I've got Cooper's book and recordings of his on-air stuff. I collect such things.
Regarding the Viet Nam war, I'm a USMC Veteran of that war-crime, and I salute you for seeking ways to avoid complicity in the horror put forth by our stolen federal government. Don't know how long you've been at Oath Keepers, but in case you missed my "take" on that war, here's one I posted there a while back--

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/10/01/over-there-and-over-here-a-letter-from-the-editor/

Don't quit Oath Keepers, Bro, just add this place to your daily travels, right? Oath Keepers is doing a wonderful job for this country. I'm trying to get TMM off its ass to do something comparable, which is what this thread is all about. We'll see how it goes with the membership here.

Salute!
Elias

Nobody ever "stole" what so many call "our" government, no more than the guys in Mainland Europe paid Dane-geld tribute to what they considered "their" Vikings, either. 

It wasn't "ours" to begin with, and it wasn't, therefore, stolen.  Stealing implies ownership.  You cannot own those who demand tribute from you.  Unless you think all the occupied territories owned the Huns and Attila instead of the way it actually was.

The Constitution was a brilliant coup de'etat by a brilliant bunch of lawyers and their sycophants.  The rabbit hole goes very deep, and I don't feel like wasting my excellent and very expensive keyboard's lifespan to type a "tl;dr" comment which will neither be read, nor comprehended, nor replied to, in any intelligent format, not even on this most subversive of forum media.  So, I'll leave it at that.  Those who've read enough, know that the government was never meant to belong to the submitizens any more than the farm belongs to the chickens or the ranch belongs to the cows.  But bleating about it certainly expends energy they could spend living their lives or actually effecting change where it can be done.

Good luck "fixing" the evil people.

Totally grok the brilliant lawyers' role in creating the Constitution.

I should remind you that I speak on many different "levels". There is the choir, each member of which knows what you've just said, and there is the congregation, most members of which haven't a clue about what you said. My interest is in reaching the congregation and helping them get up to speed on what's going on with their government. The first thing I do not usually do when approaching the congregation is hit them over the head with an iron skillet by telling them this government ain't what they think it is, and that they are being dumb-assed sheople. That doesn't help them, usually. So instead, I offer them some pancakes with butter and honey which was cooked up in that skillet. They can digest the concept of a Constitution, and by reminding them of the unalienable rights that Constitution is built to protect, they can be motivated to want to demand that the federal government operate within its limitations as laid out in Article I, Section 8 and in the Bill of Rights.

That much right there would be a huge step in the direction of diminishing the centralized power of today's behemoth-like out-of-control General government. On the level of perception in which most people think these days, telling them that the Constitution is a fraud before they're ready to fully understand how it came to be merely causes a defensive reaction which prompts them to erect that old mental barrier and the conversation just drys up in futility.  What we have out there for a national consciousness right now is, as T. S. Eliot dubbed it, a Wasteland. My approach is to offer tiny little baby-steps in the direction of helping them *want* to learn more about their individual sovereignty, their worth as individual sous enmeshed in flesh.  On the level of perception held by the congregation, out government was stolen a century ago when Wall Street got Woodrow Wilson (a willing dupe) into office. And in their perception, the General government is largely outside its lawful boundaries -- so I speak with them in that perspective. I can also speak with you in your perspective. My mind is not bound up by belief, and I am comfortable on many different levels. My objective in communicating with people on any level is to get the goddam government off my back and out of my personal life. Helping people see the threats arrayed against what little freedom we may have left requires that I soften the message to terms which do not throw them into shock and thereby cause them to erect the ever-ready barriers to learning the bitter truth.

Salute!
Elias
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"Heirs to self-knowledge shed gently their fears..."
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